'They' is me
LOOSE END / Call us what we wish to be called
Ivan Coyote / Vancouver / Thursday, January 12, 2012
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A couple of weeks ago I got an email from a young woman, a college student, who claimed that her professor had assigned her entire class a special little assignment, for extra credits, for students who could track down my legal name and bring it to class. This young woman had tried and tried, she said, to find it online, but couldn’t, and she really wanted those extra marks. Would I be so kind as to just tell her?

I took a deep breath. I was flabbergasted, skin crawling with chill fingers at how totally creepy this felt, an entire college English or writing or queer studies or whatever class assigned the task of violating my privacy for extra credit at school.

Exactly what educational or literary purpose could my legal name serve, anyway? Jesus, I thought, I need to find out who this professor is and write him or her a carefully worded yet very stern letter. So I wrote the student back, politely asking for her prof’s name, the class number and the name of the college she attends. I did not, of course, answer her question.

I have written her twice now, and my cyber-savvy buddy has possibly tracked down the kid’s school, if she indeed attends the college whose pink hoodie she was sporting in her Facebook profile picture, and I have written an instructor there who very well might be said professor but have yet to hear back from anybody.

This leaves me frustrated, and feeling violated, and worried that this will happen all over again this semester, that I will get a new crop of letters from eager students asking me about my legal name.

For those people who use their legal name and have never had any dissonance in their head or life with the name given to them at birth versus the name that feels like their name, well, I am glad for you, I really am. It must be fantastic to have all your ID match your face and your gender and your tits and your birth certificate and what the border guard sees when he looks at you and decides whether or not to let you on the plane. You are lucky.

I am not one of those people. I don’t like my legal name, first or last; it doesn’t suit me, it never fit, and what is more, I never really knew the man who I got it from, my grandfather, and the few times I did spend any time with him, I didn’t like him much. He died when I was 21. I think I met him about three times in my entire life.

I changed my name in 1990. That was 22 years ago. Some of my family still call me by my birth name, and I let them do this only because they are my family. I cash cheques and do business and perform and publish and live and fuck and talk to my neighbours as Ivan. Because this is my name. It feels good to be called who I am.

A couple of months ago my friend and collaborator Elisha Lim (they drew the book covers for Persistence: All Ways Butch and Femme and for One in Every Crowd, my latest two books) was approached by Xtra to do an interview about their work. Elisha prefers to use “they” as a pronoun. Many of my friends do. Xtra, much to my chagrin and embarrassment, refused to honour this seemingly simple request, citing grammar considerations and awkward language concerns, I believe.

I was mortified that the paper I have been writing this column for since 2001 (that’s right, 11 years) would not honour my trans friend’s simple request to be referred to by their choice of pronoun. I had a long chat on the phone with my editor. She heard me out, but nothing changed. I kept writing my column. I had to. I keep my promises. I do what I say I am going to do with my writing commitments. I am a professional. I needed the money.

Then last week my other buddy and collaborator Rae Spoon, who I regularly play, tour, write and record with, wrote a blog post about how they recently turned down a full-colour cover and article with Xtra Ottawa, over concerns that the paper would not respect Rae’s pronoun choice as well, which also happens to be they. I have included the links to both Elisha's and Rae's posts about how this feels, so folks can check them out.

I humbly request that Xtra do some serious thinking about what it means for a queer paper to refuse to honour such a fundamentally basic issue so important to many of its readers, or potential readers. All of its trans, gender non-conforming, gender-queer readers and all of our many allies. Call us what we wish to be called.

And in case you are still considering calling upon rules of proper grammar to justify ignoring our need to be seen and respected for exactly who and what we are, well, my lovely wife has prepared a fairly comprehensive reading list of reference materials proving that not only is it perfectly correct to use “they” as a singular pronoun in the English language, it was first done in the 16th century. My wife is my favourite ally of them all.

So, Xtra, it is too late for you to lead the way on this issue, but you still have an opportunity to step up and be a better and more accurate and diverse voice for the true GLBTTQQI communities that seek to find information and support and recognition in your pages. Please, this is not a complaint. It is an opportunity. An opportunity for you to make this paper better. More diverse, more trans-inclusive, more relevant, more courageous, more real, more truly queer. Call us what we want to be called. Be a part of changing our language to better reflect the world that uses it to communicate. Make me proud. Proud enough to keep on writing here for another 11 years.



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Reader Comments


 
It really IS that simple!
Eloquently and gracefully expressed, as always. I love that your columns often give me new ways to think about things like this... and really, it IS just that simple! You are Ivan, I am Bobbi, Elisha is they, Rae is they... why would anybody call someone by a name (or a pronoun) which was not theirs?!
Bobbi, Halifax Nova Scotia
01/11/12 8:41 PM EST
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reading list
Ivan, lovely column as usual! the link to the reading list seems to be incorrect; it links to https://www.tumblr.com/dashboard, which redirects to a tumbler login. I would really love to get my hands on the reading list - and so would a friend with a workplace situation, currently - and I wonder if you could re-post the correct link? thanks!
Red, Oakland CA
01/11/12 8:46 PM EST
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The link
Red, I think this is the link you need: http://ivancoyote.tumblr.com/post/15648248213/singular-they-reading-list?ref=nf
Bobbi, Halifax Nova Scotia
01/11/12 8:50 PM EST
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Grammar- singular pronoun 'One'
For those who are really stuck on 'they' as a pleural pronoun, try instead 'one'. 'One' is genderless, as in 'having no gender bias', and 'one' is clearly a singular pronoun, not pleural. And 'one' cannot be debated.
ShanEda, Hamilton Ontario
01/11/12 8:54 PM EST
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bravo
I usually comment on your xtra posts on your facebook wall, where i usually get wind of a new one. I felt to comment here as I really hope that Xtra will change it's stance and pay attention to the voice of it's writers, and loyal readers. I've been a fan of xtra for longer than i can remember, and was really disappointed in their approach after reading last week's Rae Spoon article, now yours. Voice? hmmm not
kim hadley, gibsons bc
01/11/12 8:58 PM EST
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Legal vs. birth name
I am a bit confused - you said you changed your name in 1990...was this not a "legal" name change? I don't intend to be creepy or invasive as I agree that assignment was, but am just trying to be clear.
K., Los Angeles California
01/11/12 9:05 PM EST
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I wonder..
I wonder what they would do with an article about a person like me who uses all pronouns. (-;
Joie Rey, Everywhere EV
01/11/12 9:11 PM EST
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An English teacher who endorses "they"!
Thanks for speaking out about this, Ivan! I really hope that Xtra as well as other publications, and people in general, will become open to using "they" as a singular pronoun. It is flexible, much more natural to learn to use than "ze," and of course it's simply respectful to call someone what they want to be called. I'm a college English teacher, and I often talk to my classes about this issue, encouraging them to feel OK with our culture's new-ish habit of using "they" for singular pronoun use. Obviously I've heard that's grammatically incorrect, but language constantly changes over time - CONSTANTLY CHANGES. I think that our English-speaking culture is already on the road to using "they" for singular use more often, which I'm happy about! Let's nudge it along!
Alison, Palo Alto CA
01/11/12 9:13 PM EST
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Please Heed Ivan's Words
It is crucial that Xtra lead the way in this sort of issue. Seemingly minor rights are the tip of the iceberg. Rae and Ivan are wonderful artists. However, before that, they are people. And they deserve consideration and respect. Calling someone by a pronoun they prefer to avoid is as rude as calling someone by a petname they find distasteful. Women's rights made "sugar,baby, and sweetcheeks" inappropriate for the workplace. Xtra should take the lead in making enforced gendering just as inappropriate.
Diana Reid, Ottawa ON
01/11/12 9:17 PM EST
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It's really not that hard...
It's really not that hard to write for "they" and use perfectly acceptable grammar in so doing. Surely the editors at Xtra are capable of this level of writing proficiency. That they wouldn't be willing to do so in order to support the trans community and those who prefer "they" as a pronoun is astonishing and shameful.
Terry McGinn, Kingston Ontario
01/11/12 9:24 PM EST
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Maybe...
...the curiosity about your name is provoked by the fact that you call yourself "Ivan Coyote"' fercrissake. And "seen and respected for exactly who and what we are" seems rather at odds with an insistence on being referred to as the amorphous plural "they"', rather than anything definite and actually individual.
Tasha, Toronto On
01/11/12 9:27 PM EST
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Pro-choice for pro-nouns
Why in the world would a queer paper not already be *with* it on this issue? Perhaps we need to launch a campaign "pro-choice for pronouns: letting each person identify as they wish"
Starr, Fayetteville Arkansas, USA
01/11/12 9:35 PM EST
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I know "they" is ok, but...
(For starters, I'm straight, so feel free to say "this chick is clueless") I try to stay on top of the many ways that things in society change (for instance LGBT has added so many new letters that I don't even know what half of it stands for). I've always felt that "they" was as insulting as calling a transgendered person or a cross dresser a "he-she". So I will probably forever struggle to work "they" into my vocabulary. I try to ascertain (without just asking) how a person identifies themself & then use that word, "he" or "she". I guess what I don't understand is is there a whole group of people that don't identify themselves as either gender? So, I'm prepared to be set straight (no pun intended).
Nay, Brookeland Texas
01/11/12 10:06 PM EST
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Well...
I'm personally too hung up on professional grammar to misuse "they" in this fashion (I'm freelance and believe that we need to accommodate correct English in order to be taken seriously), but It's awfully easy to avoid 'he' or 'she': if using the person's name becomes repetitive, simply substitute "said the artist or musician or writer or toenail clipper" instead.
Serafin LaRiviere, toronto Ontario
01/11/12 10:24 PM EST
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Xtra! needs to step up
Great, article. I have found Xtra! is becoming more and more problematic and rather than expanding with the queer community, it seems to be getting a narrower perspective. It's ridiculous that a paper that is supposed to represent all members of the queer community won't even use the preferred pronouns of its subjects. SHAME.
Deviant_boi, Toronto Ontario
01/11/12 10:46 PM EST
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If one is uncomfortable.....
....then why such discomfort with doing what would comfort? This isn't so hard. Seriously, if we're going to hold grammar above making someone feel welcomed, comforted, a part of.....then, we're really screwed. It's not like anyone is expected to always know the right words for any person, 100% of the time, but when they are given to you, then why not use them? Is it really such a travesty to make someone feel a part of the process by using a few simple words? I would rather put people's feelings/needs above grammar. Besides, I doubt Xtra's editorial staff has been grammatically correct, 100% of the time. We're all human, and I don't care how long anyone has been writing, I find it hard to believe they haven't "slipped up" here or there. Besides, language is forever shifting. Just look at what is in any of the countless versions of English dictionaries these days.
JesseJamesBondage, Toronto Ontario
01/11/12 11:02 PM EST
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Maybe...
Xtra, please step up and heed trans writers and other creators! Ivan is one of the few reasons I read Xtra! @Tasha, Toronto On - It's an issue of respect for trans, genderqueer, and gender non-conforming people to use the names and pronouns that they request (it's common courtesy, not a contest or a moral issue). And yes, that's totally aside from the creepy, privacy-invading, utterly inappropriate bonus assignment discussed. Please think, and learn more about issues of importance to trans, genderqueer, and gender non-conforming people!
doubleN, TO ON
01/11/12 11:29 PM EST
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Why all the fuss about the last part
Why is people focusing on the last part, rather then the first? to be honest I would have thought the part about names is a bit more important, personally I agree with both, this just seems to me a few trying to pick apart the part of the post they have a chance to.
Katrina Swales, Nottingham United kingdom
01/11/12 11:34 PM EST
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Xtra: transphobic prescriptivism?
BRAVO to Ivan for this courageous, important letter, to the allies and to those who are showing an openness to accept a person's right to self-identification. I can't BELIEVE that Xtra wouldn't honour the requests of these leading artists and activists to use "they" as their chosen pronoun. If Xtra can treat two prominent role models in the queer and trans communities, what is doing on behind the scenes there? I am very concerned about how trans and gender queer folk approaching this company for work, as clients, contractors, purchasers etc. may be treated. I call on the editors to take responsibility for for these shameful incidents of transphobia, opening their minds and grammar books in the process. I'll be watching for resolution on this issue, as my support for Xtra's publication and related social media sites depends on it.
Marlo Turner Ritchie, Montreal Quebec
01/11/12 11:50 PM EST
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Total agreement
On the college student, it sounds more like she had a dare or maybe secretly a huge fan and made up the 'assignment' to find out your legal name. However, your legal name is Ivan Coyote, you changed it legally, so there is no other answer to give. As for Xtra magazine, I'm appalled personally, but from personal experience, so much of our community has just accepted whatever people choose to call them. When I meet new people, I ask them what they prefer to be called and identified. Most often the answer I get is, 'well, most call me or refer to me as -----' To that I say, "I dont give a fuck what others do, I give a fuck about what YOU want and what YOU prefer." Our community has too long just accepted what was thrown at them and it's time to stand up for who we are and what WE want and not allow others, save for maybe a selected few, such as family, to call us anything other than what WE want and refer to us how WE want. A true friend will respect both, and being a friend, in my not so humble opinion, means I care enough about my friend to give them that respect. I am a fem, I prefer Christing, though a few call me Chris, and I allow it. I also prefer she, but definitely would not be offended by 'they'. Stand up, it's your duty to do so. We have to educate these people and stop settling, or things will never change.
Christine, York Pennsylvania
01/11/12 11:54 PM EST
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No disrespect or erasure intended
I am a HUGE Ivan fan, who once gushed embarrasingly while buying a book from Ivan in Victoria...though a noticeably more femme woman in the lineup distracted Ivan. (I am more Ivan-esque looking myself!:) No problem, I love my book and I see Ivan speak any opportunity I get. I consider myself to be androgynous and a radical feminist of the Mary Daly persuasion (ie. feminism is the "cause of all causes") I am also an English major, and I admit to practicing using "they" in sentences,in the mirror, trying to wrap my head around the plural vs. the singular. MOst times, I insert name. I dont mean to disrespect or erase anyone. Your cause is my cause, according to Mary Dalys ethic, and I take that seriously. What I do have some difficulty with is perhaps change, itself, simple as that. I am not used to calling someone they; ergo, I am used to using certain pronouns. But that by no means is a conscious attempt to erase or demean anyone. Youre right, XTRA mag could have easily reconciled grammatical issues; and taken up the challenge to change, as I will. But now I am a bit curious: Ivan, I have always 'framed' you as a butch person and woman - an icon for the lesbian (&GBT) community. Do you use the pronoun They?
Chris, Alert Bay BC
01/11/12 11:56 PM EST
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THANK YOU!
first off i want to say thank you. thank you for speaking your truth and for asking xtra to change. second i want to say i hope that class prof. finds this and LEARNS SOMETHING. how awful. i am so sorry you had to deal with that. thank you for being you and speaking your truth. your voice is so important. much love to you & z!
wyatt riot, portland oregon
01/11/12 11:58 PM EST
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Stuff Cis People Say to Trans People
Hi again, I just saw this via a post from some friends in T-dot. I think that this would be an excellent video to watch and discuss at the next editorial meeting, and perhaps in that class where the invasive assignment was given out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_govGNuHhSg In solidarity for anti-oppression work within our communities,
Marlo Turner Ritchie, Montreal Quebec
01/12/12 12:05 AM EST
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Yes!
I say yes to all of this. I happen to use "he" pronouns, but my choice of those should be no more palatable or acceptable than any other trans or nonbinary person's choice of pronouns. All should be respected.
JayInChicago, Chicago illinois usa
01/12/12 12:38 AM EST
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Couldn't agree more...
Hi Ivan I totally support you...a recent blog post: http://www.philippatston.com/blog/diversity-dilemma-gender/ Cheers Philip
Philip Patston, Auckland New Zealand
01/12/12 1:13 AM EST
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Hey Xtra!
Thanks for the column Ivan! I have read Xtra on and off since the early 1980's when I lived in Toronto. I think it is appalling that a paper representing queer (short form - meant to be all inclusive) community for decades is so behind the times. It's not the first time however but I do hope it is the last. How do we work for acceptance in general society when we can't get it together within our own community? If we don't want society as a whole to police us, what makes it okay to police each other? Wake up Xtra (all 3 of you) and drag yourself into this decade, take your place as leaders and embrace ALL of the GLBTTQQI community. Thank - you from a blended gender, non-conforming, bi dyke.
JD, Prince George BC
01/12/12 1:49 AM EST
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?
I just don't understand saying that "they" isn't acceptable because Xtra wants to be taken seriously. Is adhering to a certain standard of grammar (which apparently isn't even true) really more important that respecting members of the LBGTQI community? And if it is, why? What the hell is Xtra getting out of this, besides a growing voice of dissent from people in our community who recognize how incredibly disrespectful and stupid this decision has been?
ace, vancouver bc
01/12/12 2:23 AM EST
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does it matter? Really?
I'm sorry but I really couldn't care less. Why do you? Isn't it more important to focus on derogatory and insulting references than to strive for political correctness?
Christina, London United Kingdom
01/12/12 2:45 AM EST
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thank you
Thank you for this wonderful piece Ivan. BTW- as of today here in Toronto at the trans forum Xtra committed to using 'they' as appropriate in the future. I look forward to seeing that commitment enacted in the future.
Savannah, Toronto ON
01/12/12 3:01 AM EST
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Backup for Ivan's request
Dear Xtra editors, I am checking out this news page all the way from Germany, and I am checking mainly because of Ivan's column. Of course, the queer family worldwide is used to confusion and issues when it comes to gender pronouns, but seriously - a lesbian and gay news site, refusing to use the pronoun that one of our own requests to be called by? That's ridiculous. We have enough problems from the outside, do not create them from the inside, ok? Please heed Ivan's suggestions. It will make you a better news magazine, and the world a better place.
Nike, Cologne Germany
01/12/12 3:19 AM EST
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The rest of the world uses They!
I'm a french student. In English class we are corrected if we don't use "they" as a singular pronoun in such cases. So I thought this wasn't even an issue in English-speaking countries... so I thought. I hope, for the sake of people's respect rather than grammar issues, that Xtra will reconsider their position about calling people with the right pronouns!
Viv, Strasbourg France
01/12/12 9:41 AM EST
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@ "does it matter? Really?"
@Christina: What if the article were about Xtra refusing to use female pronouns to describe you, or some women you respect? Xtra could explain that the use of "he" to refer to a person of unspecified gender is well-documented in the English language. Would it matter to you then, Christina? Because this issue is a more contemporary version of the same thing. It's about basic respect for the identities of the subjects that xtra wishes to write about. Building respect within the media for our (very valid and quite reasonable) identities and preferences is a critical step along the path to trans people having equal rights and treatment. You may spend all the time you wish stamping on derogatory remarks, but they will keep sprouting back like weeds until we build a foundation of respect that we can all stand upon, feeling like we belong.
Dee, Toronto On
01/12/12 9:49 AM EST
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Creepy!
I can only hope that the professor's point was that your name couldn't be found. I can't imagine someone who knows who you are being so insensitive and ill-informed. Well, okay, I can, but I don't want to. "Sucks" is such an inadequate word for the fact that you have to school this scholar, but it needs to be done, I can't think of a more articulate person to do so. On a side note, when I was 14 I found myself choosing to do some poetry for English Class that avoided any gendered pronouns. I don't know why, it just felt natural. And do you know what? It worked! PS. To the commenter that thought it was disrespectful to say "they", the word you are thinking of is "it".
tam, quinte on
01/12/12 10:00 AM EST
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Privacy Violation
I wish you the best of luck in tracking down that school and prof who would assign such an assignment. Somethings are not in the public eye for a reason. Privacy violation, transphobia, human rights abuse... whatever one labels it the prof needs some re-education about respect and boundaries. Shame on them.
Natasha, Vancouver BC
01/12/12 10:22 AM EST
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Advertiser and the Related Consumer $$
I think we should follow Marge Piercy's example from 1976 (Woman on the Edge of Time) and use "per". It's the pronoun for person. I like it! I would suggest that the businesses that support Xtra! show that they support trans inclusiveness. This is truly the way that the paper will learn what our community wants. I wish all businesses that buy advertising with Xtra! would step up and say... "No more advertising money from us until you treat ALL our customers with the respect they deserve." And we, as consumers, should encourage advertisers to do this.
Angela, Winnipeg MB
01/12/12 10:26 AM EST
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To Nay
Nay: Man/woman is referred to as the "gender binary" - a line with man at one end and woman at the other, and most people fall at either end. For a long time society had a more simplistic concept of being transgender - you still belong at one end or the other, you just belong at the other end than what you were assigned at birth. Now we recognize that not only do some people (some of them trans, some not) fall into the middle of the binary, there are also people entirely outside of the binary. Some people (myself among them) feel that we don't fit into the gender we were assigned, but the other end of the gender binary wouldn't fit us either. I personally consider myself "female-bodied" (and I'm fine with the body I've had since birth, so I'm not trans) but I'm not a woman, nor do I want to be a man, so I consider myself "genderqueer".
Robin, Toronto ON
01/12/12 10:35 AM EST
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Pronouns and respect
Christina: Denying the validity of someone's gender *is* profoundly disrespectful. Trans people are at a far higher risk of abuse, harassment, and even murder, yet the necessity to live as their true gender is so strong, they are forced to assume those risks. This is not a casual thing - this is the very core of who they are. To say, "Who cares what pronoun people use?" is to fail to recognize how deeply important it is, and how much most trans people sacrifice, in order to claim their true identity. To have a publication that claims to represent trans people fail to understand this - or, worse yet, understand but not care - is deeply disrespectful. It's like saying, "We think what you have gone through, and who you are as a person, is less important than our grammatical style guide."
Robin, Toronto ON
01/12/12 10:53 AM EST
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Xtra, just use people's preferred pronouns
This is a great piece. Sorry to hear about that creepy assignment. If referring to a person as "they" would have caused any confusion, it likely wouldn't have compared to the shitstorm that came out of Xtra's refusal to respect people's preferences. I have not always been aware that some people use gender-neutral pronouns. When I found out they did, I didn't stand there slack-jawed, scratching my head. I called people by the pronouns they preferred. People are capable of absorbing new information. Since it is still something that some people don't get, maybe include a link to writing by people who go by "they" that explains their preference. If people want to know, they'll read it. Don't cater to the people who refuse to learn new things.
Lisa Osler, Montreal QC
01/12/12 11:35 AM EST
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Change-difficult but necessary
As an African American, we were called "them, they and those people" for so long that the mere mention of the these "pronouns" sends shutters throughout our community. So it would be difficult for me to refer to anyone as "they". I will respect the message and reach into the core of my being and called those who prefer to be "they" they.
t judith johnson, Rochester New York
01/12/12 11:51 AM EST
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Bravo
This is an important and well written piece. It's horrifying that you would get such a rude (and desperate) e-mail. The contention surrounding the use of 'they' as a singular pronoun is absurd. We're lucky to have such a gender-neutral language. More people need to take a stand to stamp out automatic gender labeling. Well done (also I freaking love your work).
blimple, ... ...
01/12/12 12:00 PM EST
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Xtra should respect peoples pronoun choices
Great article, Ivan. I stopped reading Xtra a long time ago because it rarely reflects or reports on my community and experiences. Xtra should respect people's pronoun and name choices, including the use of 'they'. Period.
Sam, Vancouver BC
01/12/12 12:06 PM EST
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Right on!
This is something I will send to people everytime they try to bullshit me about this issue. Thank you Ivan.
Jenna Meyers, Montreal Quebec
01/12/12 12:21 PM EST
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An interesting experiment
Ivan, Something else you could have done would have been to give her some name other than what your original name was. Either make one up, find someone who would be willing to be a guinea pig and let you use hers or - morbldly, but there actually is an old episode of The Rockford Files that revolves around this (in terms of a criminal scam, but without the trans angle of course) - find the name of someone would be approximately your age now but who died in infancy and use that person's name. If she was making the whole thing up, that would spark one set of responses after you gave her the name. If the 'contest' was real, then there are two trajectories that the situation could have taken. Either this alleged prof already knows (or thinkc he knows) the answer and is wanting to see who comes up with the same one or he doesn't already know and might take an e-mail from you as 'proof' of what the 'right' answer is. Either way, its a situation that screamed out for an appropriately mischievous response of some sort.
Kat, Somewhere in The US Midwest
01/12/12 1:31 PM EST
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Someone had to say it...
Well put, Ivan!
Danielle Pope, Victoria BC
01/12/12 1:39 PM EST
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Does Xtra think we're stupid?
What really boggles my mind in all this is, does Xtra really think their readers won't be able to figure what is meant by "they"? I agree, it would be nice to have a separate gender neutral third person singular pronoun that is commonly used, but "they" has become that pronoun. It's not like it's the only word with multiple meanings depending on the context. Language is ever-evolving and should shift to meet our needs, not the other way around. If I say "when you get on the bus, ask the bus driver for directions. They will tell you where to go", do you think that there are multiple drivers? Of course not! It's implied by the context that there is one person whose gender is not defined. Similarly, it should be clear what a statement like: "Rae Spoon has released a new album. They will be touring soon" means. So for Xtra to hide behind this BS "sanctity of grammar" argument is insulting to our intelligence. It takes no more time to type "they" than it does to type "he" or "she". Stop hiding behind flimsy excuses and start listening to and respecting the community you purport to represent.
Maria, Vancouver BC
01/12/12 1:53 PM EST
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Hasn't Xtra heard of a footnote?
I hope it's only a matter of time before Xtra's policies catch up with the political consciousness of their writers. I edit a scholarly journal. Many authors use uncommon terminology, capitalization, or pronouns. We just add an editorial note (e.g., "Throughout this article we will refer to Elisha using the pronoun 'they' in keeping with Elisha's preference. In this context, please read this pronoun as singluar."). I mean, would Xtra capitalize bell hooks too? As for the bizarre class assignment, it sounds intolerably invasive and suspicious. I'd complain to the University's Board if I were you.
Margaret Robinson, Toronto Ontario
01/12/12 3:44 PM EST
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Fuck you Xtra
Fuck you Xtra, you transphobic piece of shit. You are a disgrace. You are a stain on the world. You are hypocritical queer-hating shit-for-brains pricks. Get a clue, you trans-bashing FUCKS!
Ivanna, Montreal Quebec
01/12/12 4:07 PM EST
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Well said
Beautifully put. You have my full support. My pronoun of choice is singular "they" and people who are happy to accept and use it are so few and far between that every time I meet someone who does, I get all warm and fuzzy. Come on, Xtra, you can do this! :)
Lotte, Swansea Wales
01/12/12 5:39 PM EST
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"wife"?
I was down with this article until the end when the author refers to 'their' partner as "my lovely wife" and, again, as "my wife," this in article arguing against legal names and designations in favor of chosen identities. Perhaps the author's partner prefers to be known as "wife" -- anything's possible in these homonormative times -- but I wonder if "my wife" has a name other than a legal designation/role and an identity beyond being a possession of the author?
SJM, Toronto Ontario
01/12/12 6:02 PM EST
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since when does English follow the rules?
The ridiculousness of a queer-identified publication oppressing its own writers aside... And the fact that languages are inevitably in a constant state of evolution also aside.... Since when has the English language followed its own grammar rules??? For every rule there is an instance where it is broken. Clinging to the concept of "perfectly correct" English...kind of silly. Also, I've been using "they" instead of "he/she" when the gender of the subject is unknown since I was a child... it seemed obvious. Have I been wrong all this time? Wait, it just doesn't matter. So tell your editor that THEY can suck it. :] respectfully, of course. http://www.sheetr.com/21-reasons-why-english-sucks/ http://www.c4vct.com/kym/humor/esl.htm
kelsey, winnipeg manitoba
01/12/12 7:00 PM EST
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Followed the link to the reading list...
I read some of the Jane Austen/use of singular "they" info that's linked from the Reading List, and found this... "Where singular "their" cannot be used is when referring to a strongly-individualized single person about whom there is some specific information. So the following attempt at pronominal reference would fail, even if one did not know (or did not wish to reveal) the sex of "Chris": "Chris was born on February, 25th 1963, the youngest of three siblings, is 5 feet 9 inches tall with red hair, graduated from Slippery Rock college, is currently working as an accountant, has never married, and is fond of listening to jazz. They..."" ...which explains my discomfort with using "they" as a singular pronoun. I mean, in real life, I make the effort to refer to people as they would like me to, but I certainly do trip over the singular "they" when I see it in writing and have a hard time using it aloud. I'm also a (young) woman who isn't offended by the generic use of "he." If I think of it as a metaphor, where "he" stands for "the normal human condition," then yes, it is problematic, but I don't think of it as a metaphor; I think of it as a grammatical placeholder, which is what a pronoun is. That said, it doesn't seem like such a big deal to me to use somebody's preferred pronoun in an article about them, particularly if an explanatory footnote is included.
Amanda, Vancouver BC
01/12/12 8:09 PM EST
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Nope...
I simply can't agree. So many of these folks make their points eloquently, but I can't reconcile them with what is a near-universally accepted grammar usage, and journalistic professionalism. I find it terribly sad that threats and nastiness have been levelled at many of us who are trying to eke out a living. It's sadly familiar... our community attacking itself instead of finding a way to peaceably hold different points of view. The fact that the largesse of this strife occurred because of an attempt to censor someone's personal FB page still sticks in my craw, and, no matter how many obscure grammatical 'rules' are dug up from the past, the reality is that we deal in a contemporary world of colloquial communication -- and the media is not responsible for changing that. It's our job to report the news, not to change it to suit others. If you want to change something like pronouns, I'll report on that til the cows come home, but I won't be used as someone else's tool or mouthpiece. That's what you hire Public Relations folks for... which is something I think would be a great start, instead of these boycotts and threats.
Serafin LaRiviere, toronto Ontario
01/12/12 8:38 PM EST
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cont'd...
Otherwise, I would invite you to line up behind Rob Ford's folks while they insist that we stop reporting police visits to his home, or the nature of 911 calls from his family, and that we all start publishing more flattering pictures. It's the same thing: prescriptive behaviour towards free press. We don't change the world... we report on how the world changes.
Serafin LaRiviere, toronto Ontario
01/12/12 8:40 PM EST
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Optimistic?
I can only hope the college student's assignment to find a 'legal name' was designed to expose assumptions about what a 'legal name' is. Regardless what name you grew up with, the correct answer is Ivan Coyote. I think giving extra credit to students who have learned that birth name has no meaning might be a worthwhile lesson.
Seth Munter, San Francisco California
01/12/12 8:47 PM EST
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You is thee
In English we have accepted using the plural form "you" over the singular "thou" for hundreds of years now. I wonder why it's so difficult to replace "she/he" with "they"? Even though I can intellectually accept the logic, my inner knee-jerk English major kicks up a fuss every time I read it. Maybe it's because it's so convenient (speaking as a writer) to have three different 3rd-person pronouns. I am working to train my brain to read "they" as singular, but I can't stop wishing there were another gender-neutral pronoun (not "it")that wouldn't act as a reading speed-bump.
JM Landels, Vancouver BC
01/12/12 8:59 PM EST
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The name change game...
I do find it very weird that this professor would assign something so incredibly goofy. But as someone who legally changed my last name and uses my legal middle name as a first name, I accept that there will occasionally be different folks calling me different things. I can't imagine getting all upset over it, though; I know who I am, and that's all that matters really. If my biggest worry is that someone will refer to my legal first name, instead of the middle name I choose to use, then I count myself pretty lucky.
Serafin LaRiviere, toronto Ontario
01/12/12 9:17 PM EST
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Go Ivan!
I echo the comments of appreciation above, Ivan. You are a constant inspiration, as storyteller, challenging and beautiful writer, performer and all-round solid human being. I too am saddened that you had to go through this and maddened by both the prof (gah) and Xtra (boo). Will they never learn?! love and compassion.
Clare Nobbs, Toronto Ontario
01/12/12 10:45 PM EST
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Confused about how they want to do this?
I have no problem using he or she as desired, but the grammarian in me has a hard time with 'they' as a singular pronoun. Maybe I don't understand how it's supposed to work, but would that mean I should say, 'When Kelly goes to the store they will need their shopping list' instead of he/she will need his/her? It's not that I have a problem with being gender neutral, but the sentence no longer makes sense to me - I am left wondering 'who is they'? I believe the historical examples of they as a singular pronoun are correct within a certain context, but that doesn't mean we can universally use they/them/their without crippling the English language. There has to be a way to respect people that doesn't require grammatical acrobatics to parse a sentence. The "legal name" thing is crazy, I can't see how that prof could think it was remotely acceptable.
Dorothy, Vancouver BC
01/13/12 4:03 PM EST
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guidelines for trans issues
are NOT difficult to follow. There's whole websites dedicated to them. One of the more accurate ones is at http://www.glaad.org/reference/transgender The # 1 thing, that Xtra is not only ignoring, they're flat out refusing to do, is RESPECT the Trans person. If in doubt, use what they decide is the pronoun to describe them. period. There is NO reasonable excuse what so ever, to EVER not respect this very simple, and very basic issue of good manners. Period. Failing that, fire your current editors, and hire me. I'll do the job RESPECTFULLY as opposed to the idiots doing it now!
Leslea, Coronation Alberta
01/13/12 5:11 PM EST
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get out of the muck of Xtra now!
It is time for all trans and queer people to leave Xtra and start a new Trans and Queer publication/web site. Ivan can be the resident writer. Why bow to the haters. Separate and celebrate.
loogie, Cheville AB
01/14/12 11:07 AM EST
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grammar is a mode of maintaining the status quo
We should understand appeals to grammar as desperate (and cloaked) attempts to keep things the way they are. They are fearful resorts to language--hey, it's not me, it's just that the rules of language dictate that I can't treat you as human, that I can't treat you with the respect you deserve. These people, editors I guess, are forgetting that language changes--like your wife points out, English used to allow for this! We are not stuck in 1950s English, people! If you don't want to give up on "whom" yet, fine--that doesn't hurt anyone. But it would seem to me that editors above all are responsible for acknowledging that language is powerful enough to maintain prejudices, that is to hurt people, just as it's part of maintaining certain proprieties that help people. Being conservative about language can be fine--it's why we have legible publications to read--but you have to be ethical too. You have to remember that humans are where these locutions begin and end, and sacrificing the human for the locution is also forgetting why editing is actually a really important profession. I might be misquoting a little, but Nietzsche says "We will not get rid of God until we have gotten rid of grammar." A lot of ideological cruelty is embedded in language. Thank you for this great post and I hope the editors of xtra step up.
Amy, San Francisco CA
01/15/12 2:08 PM EST
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really a college assignment?
It just occurred to me that that doesn't sound like a plausible assignment. Whereas it does sound like a possible fake assignment someone might have made up, someone who really wanted to figure out what you used to be called in order to do some amateur sleuthing or something. What on earth kind of class would assign that? It's creepy either way, I guess.
Amy, San Francisco CA
01/15/12 3:33 PM EST
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I have always said...
People who refuse the singular use of "they" should be forced to give up the singular use of "you." They are grammatically identical people. Serafin LaRiviere, you fail at grammar.
Shaed, Edmonton AB
01/16/12 8:15 PM EST
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really?
If it is not important to you to use a person's preferred pronouns and therefore you won't respect mine, we have nothing to talk about. --- If you insist that "they" is not appropriate english and therefore you refuse to respect my pronoun choice, we have nothing to talk about. --- If you believe that all of this is just some sort of "politically correct" attack on journalists and therefore refuse to respect my pronoun choice, we have nothing to talk about. --- If you are unable or unwilling to "suspend disbelief" for a single moment, to extricate yourself from the mire of disrespect this non consentual gender binary has plugged your brain with, we have nothing to talk about. --- i see your gums flapping, but i'm hearing nothing new, nothing revolutionary, and certainly nothing queer. --- There's a reason why Xtra is a dinosaur in the queer publishing world. Moving on.
romham, vancouver bc
01/17/12 3:07 PM EST
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Fail?
Perhaps Shaed, but teacher still says I have the cleanest desk in class.
Serafin LaRiviere, toronto Ontario
01/18/12 3:55 PM EST
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A Rose by Any Other Name...
As an English prof, I can say that that kind of assignment sounds like a spur of the moment task given without any thought. When I walk into a classroom I want everyone to be respected and to show respect to others. If that means calling somebody They, or any other pronoun, then that is what I will do. The rules of grammar are not an issue when related to identity in this context. Ivan is speaking to my Creative Writing - Fiction class this week at Mount Royal University. My request for Ivan to speak to the class has nothing to do with birth names or gender as I could care less. Ivan is simply a damn good writer.
Kirk Layton, Calgary AB
01/22/12 9:09 PM EST
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