The evolution of desire
COVER STORY / How trans people are challenging our understanding of same-sex attraction
Denise Sheppard / Vancouver / Thursday, December 04, 2008
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IF A GAY MAN LUSTS AFTER A TRANS MAN IS HE STILL GAY? 'I get a lot of gay men writing me letters about how they are so turned on by me and they can't believe it and what does that make them, are they now straight? says trans porn star Buck Angel.
(Courtesy of Buck Angel (David Hawe photo))
When Nelson Wong saw the tall, hot athletic boy across the dance floor, his reaction was straight-up primal.

"When I first encountered Cole," recalls Wong, "I was swept up with this amazingly sexy boy I saw, struck by his eyes, his lips and his build. I was so attracted to him."

That description of boy-on-boy desire has been written and rewritten millions of times, but this particular chemistry defied the traditional fag-traction model.

As Cole Dodsley remembers it, after seeing Wong at repeated club nights, their desire turned physical.

"We would make out upstairs," remembers Dodsley, "and when you make out with a person your hands roam, right? I hadn't had [breast removal] surgery yet and I knew that he could feel the binder on my back and knew that he was noticing something, so this is where I'm saying, 'He needs to know,' and 'Oh shit if I tell him, will he hate me, will he not wanna make out with me, is he totally going to be grossed out and freaked out?'"

In fact, Dodsley (a transgendered man who identified as a lesbian before transitioning) and Wong (a gay man) discovered their desires were growing and made the decision to evolve along with them.

Wong wrote about the experience for Gayze magazine: "I pulled down his black jockeys to reveal a neatly trimmed mound of dark hair and warm tissue. At 28, this was my first time with a female-bodied person and I was nervous. I worried that I would be repulsed or stifled by the sight of it. Seeing him naked, however, was a total turn-on.

"Seeing his soft sensitive tissue exposed made me incredibly horny. I leaned him back on a log and licked and sucked him. It was warm, wet and heaven."

Since that experience four years ago, Wong says his own attraction options have widened.

"My experience with Cole was fantastic and I am so happy it happened. It definitely broadened the spectrum of people that I can engage with to find intimacy. It sounds cheesy, but it has opened up my world. I don't have to look solely to 10 percent of the population —that is gay and bio-male —to explore what turns me on."

While Wong's journey was a positive one, he admits he was shocked and disheartened by some of the judgments coming from his community.

"I definitely knew that some of my gay friends felt revulsion. Lots of comments dealing with female genitalia, that sort of thing.

"I have friends who don't believe in transsexualism; they don't accept it," he continues. "Some of them don't believe that trans issues should be lumped together with queer issues. They believe that it is social- and self-hatred issues rather than their gender identity. It is difficult to respond to that. "


In a lot of ways, the simple existence of transgendered people in the gay community throws many gay comfort zones right out the figurative window.

After years of fighting for the right to exist, of coming out to family and friends and in many cases being ostracized for being attracted to people of the same sex, many gays and lesbians feel deeply attached to their hard-won labels.

Wong reveals that beyond the external pressures and chastisements from his gay male friends, his newly identified desire caused him some stress internally as well, specifically regarding his identity as an out and proud gay man.

"There was definitely a voice inside my head that alerted me to the fact that I had fought so hard to be a gay male, to create this identity and this strength of character despite this mainstream, heterosexual world and the expectations of my parents. There was a voice inside of me that worried that I was betraying some of that."


Transgendered porn star Buck Angel —who bills himself as "the man with a pussy" —makes a lucrative living selling and starring in adult DVDs (Buckback Mountain, Buck Off) and streaming videos.

The demographics of his audience offer some surprising insight regarding gay and lesbian desires.

"Eighty percent of my customer base is gay men. Twenty percent is female —bisexual, straight and gay," explains Angel.

"I get a lot of gay men writing me letters about how they are so turned on by me and they can't believe it and what does that make them, are they now straight? My vagina freaks people out, especially gay men," he says.

"They are attracted to me as a person but because I have a vagina, it just totally throws them for a loop, they can't wrap their head around it."

THE FUTURE OF QUEER. For Dr Christopher Shelley (not pictured), the future of sexual liberation lies beyond conventional understandings of gender and same-sex attraction. 'If we have any impact at all, in the future it will be that queer people will
(SARAH RACE PHOTO)
Angel says he has seen and heard many horror stories about the treatment of trans folks by gays and lesbians. "Twenty years ago, I identified as a dyke. When I started transitioning, the dyke community ostracized me; every single one of my friends wanted nothing to do with me. There was no knowledge about what was going on then.

"Funnily enough, a lot of people have called me since then, asking me how they go about transitioning now."


If trans people are challenging many gays' and lesbians' notions of desire, so too are they often broadening their own scope of attraction.

For many trans people who identified as gay or lesbian before transitioning, it wasn't just their bodies that evolved upon transition; they discovered their desires were shifting as well.

Dr Christopher Shelley is a professor at the University of British Columbia and author of the book Transpeople: Repudiation, Trauma, Healing.

He thinks the evolution in desire experienced by many trans people is the result of feeling freer in other aspects of their lives.

"When people start to become —to grow and let themselves be —they can let down all kinds of defenses and open themselves up to new experiences and attractions," he says.

"Once you are, for the first time in your life, comfortable in the body that you should be in, new doors can open for you. There's a lot of trans people who never had orgasms, who never let themselves go or be sexually. They couldn't even touch themselves because they were wrongly bodied. Once they are rightly bodied, they are simply more honest and more comfortable with themselves and with others," he explains.

"Trans people teach us about the complexities of life and that it isn't just the easy categories of straight, gay, lesbian, heterosexual, homosexual," Shelley says. "In many ways, I think that trans folks challenge all of our categorical assumptions. That makes them a very potent group of teachers."


Dodsley is no stranger to Shelley's theory of shifting desires.

"Almost all the trans men in my life are more attracted to men than they were before they transitioned. That's not to say they aren't attracted to women anymore, they totally are, but almost all of them are attracted to men," he says.

"I now realize that I've always been attracted to men but previously thought, 'Oh I am attracted to men because I wanna be one. Then I realized that it wasn't that —it was that I was attracted to them!

Before transitioning, Dodsley identified as a lesbian. Now, he says, his relationship is "anything but heterosexual."

"I don't think that many people on the street would see us as heterosexual because my partner has her own masculine features as well," he explains. "We still don't look like a heterosexual couple and I think that keeps me pretty queer too. She's queer and I'm queer.

"If everybody likes everybody, I'm happy. We should all feel free to love whoever we want to in terms of gender," he adds.

Roz Shakespeare was the first openly transsexual police office in the Vancouver Police Department. She sees the evolution of trans desire this way: "In the beginning, we're presenting a body that we don't feel comfortable in. It's not that we don't belong there, it's that we were pushed there. You're not free to be engaged fully; you're always holding a part of a veil there so nobody can see beyond that.

"As we come out and can be who we are fully, that canvas is blank, usually at an age where we're now a little more comfortable exploring who that is and feeling safe," she explains.


Most of the people interviewed for this story believe there is a significant difference in terms of how the gay community responds to trans men and women.

While trans men by no means have it easy when it comes to flirting, dating and even friendship within the gay community, they seem to have it easier than most trans women.

"I think it hearkens back to feminist theory —what is strong and what is weak," says videographer and trans man Erek Tymchak.

LEARNING ABOUT EACH OTHER. Queer desire won't truly evolve until gays and lesbians address the transphobia that still shapes many of their responses to trans people, says filmmaker Gwen Haworth.
(Art at Snow Photography (Michelle Kuen Suet Fung photo))
"If you look in the gay men's community, there is a hierarchy, isn't there? Butch men are top of the pile; then, the young good-looking guys that can pass as possibly straight and then it goes down from there," he says. "The effeminate men are always near the bottom. Drag queens are somewhere down there, and god forbid you want to be a woman."

"The queer community as a whole has phobias against femininity, especially when it is expressed by male-bodied individuals, regardless of their gender identity," agrees Gwen Haworth, producer and star of the award-winning documentary She's a Boy I Knew (a film about her own transition and her family's response to it).

"Whether it is an effeminate gay man or a trans women, femininity is undervalued in society," Haworth continues.

"When trans women begin that journey, I think that their sexual power in society gets diminished. It is like watching Jack on Will and Grace, or the cast of Priscilla Queen of the Desert; they become these farcical characters. There's a lot of other reasons behind it I think, but society's devaluing the feminine is a major part of that."

Shannon Summers finds it disheartening that "trans women are invisible to gay men."

"We can go to gay bars and we are accepted there," she says, "but it is not just that gay men don't hit on trans women, gay men don't pay any attention to trans women.

"They don't talk to us, we don't interact at all. Gay men want men who look like men and when they see a trans woman, they see a female and if we're not a drag queen —if we're not making fun of the gender and the genre —then we're not on their radar."

Tymchak says his transitioning wasn't very well received, either, within the gay community. "I can tell you about numerous comments that people made before I transitioned, which halted my own transition," he says.

"It is ironic that they have fought so hard and yet are being so ruthless towards another," he adds, referring to the gay community.

That said, Tymchak believes that evolution is inevitable. Trans people have a lot in common with gays and lesbians, he says. "This is just another way for traditional gay and lesbian people to be challenged.

"It is funny to think that gay and lesbian people amongst us are conservative, but they are!" he continues. "They need to open their hearts and minds to us, just as they've asked the rest of the world to do for themselves. Realize the activism is not over."


Haworth is optimistic about the future of the queer community and its openness to gender and sexual fluidity when she looks to the generations younger than her.

"Queer folks in their 20s are a lot more comfortable with gender fluidity," she says. "As someone in my mid-30s, I'm learning from that."

But, she says, queer desire won't truly evolve until gays and lesbians address the transphobia that still shapes many of their responses to trans people.

"The LGBT community has to really bring this to the table and re-think where their hearts are," she says.

"We as trans folks have to re-approach how we are going to connect with the queer community because there is this divide that is happening right now," she continues. "Sometimes I think it has to do with the difference between proactive or preemptive politics and reactive politics. That is detrimental to us all. Let's take down our guard and talk to each other, learn about each other, see where our similarities are and grow together. I think that is the next glass ceiling."

As for Shelley, he hopes the future of queer love will be more focused on desire and chemistry than on conventional understandings of gender and same-sex attraction.

"If we have any impact at all, in the future it will be that queer people will be more queer, that people could be able to appreciate the complexities of human sexuality and gender," he says.

"Rather than being fixed in the body of one thing only, and strive to be one thing only for the whole of one's life, maybe we'll be —to quote Bette Davis —much more 'this and that.'"

 



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Reader Comments


 
A very potent group of teachers
Thank you Denise Sheppard and Xtra west! for bringing prejudice and discrimination against trans people in our communities into the forefront. I think Chris Shelly says it best, “trans folks challenge all of our categorical assumptions.” These assumptions are evidently rampant in queer communities. It is true that feminism has a crucial role in highlighting and deconstructing the misogyny that is pervasive in our communities despite 30 years of activism. However, even feminists with a mantra of embracing difference emerge duplicitous when it comes to inclusion and respect for trans people. When Kimberly Nixon wanted to donate her time and energies to stopping violence against women, feminists at Vancouver Rape Relief decided that she wasn’t woman enough to join their admirable cause. How ironic that this act of exclusion and disdain is from a faction that brought us female consciousness, camaraderie, liberation and civil rights. Feminism also subscribes to the social construction of gender, yet Kim Nixon’s “female experience” was disputed. It is only one example of the violence and “repudiation” that trans people bear in our communities. Where are trans folks welcome in the queer community? Are queer events trans-friendly? Are trans women welcome in dyke spaces? Can a trans man play on your ball team? Are trans issues covered other than a “special feature” in the “gay and lesbian” newspaper? (Case in point, Xtra West! Please put your masthead where your mouth is.) It may seem crude to ask questions that pertained to homosexuals 30 years ago, but as Erek Tymchak said, “the queer community needs to be challenged to open their hearts and minds” about their trans phobia.
Tricia Foran, Gibsons B.C.
12/04/08 7:56 PM EST
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Contrast with Capital Xtra
In both Xtra West and Xtra we find this interesting and challenging articles that do not demean trans people, on the contrary they respect and honour trans subjectivity. Unlike Capital Xtra which, to use Shelley's apt term, repudiates trans experience, subjectivity and identities, particularly and explicitly transsexual women. Even as this article points out the theory for this, pointing to the arguments of Julia Serano. Even the change of editor/publisher from Gareth Kirkby to Marcus McCann has not affected this attitude. Maybe Capital Xtra just reflects the Ottawa gay/lesbian community, as Xtra West and Xtra reflect theirs--or maybe a small town just generates a small newspaper.
Jessica Freedman, Ottawa Ontario
12/05/08 5:46 AM EST
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Vancouver has a long way to go...
I do not understand how there can be any discussion of how trans people are shaping same-sex attraction in Vancouver without a lengthy discussion of this city's institutional trans misogyny. Come on! This feels like just more lip service. What I get from the way Xtra West has framed this article is that trans guys are hot hot hot, and trans women, well, that poor lot doesn't get laid. "While trans men by no means have it easy when it comes to flirting, dating and even friendship within the gay community, they seem to have it easier than most trans women." This is possibly the most ridiculous understatement I've ever read in queer journalism. I am a queer trans woman in Vancouver, and I've learned a lot about the nontrans/cisgendered queer women in this city from things they've said when they didn't think there's a tranny in the room. It is a vulgar bigotry that makes Vancouver seem provincial and dull. Thankfully I've discovered that not all nontrans/cisgendered queer women have stuff about trans women they can't get over. If that means most of the people who end up in my bed don't spell colour with a U, at least I don't have to deal with people's biases about me. I am so tired of being a process for someone else to figure out. I've got other things to do. A.
Allison Hamilton, Vancouver British Columbia
12/08/08 10:24 PM EST
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Just scratching the surface
I'm glad to see this article in print, but sad to see how much Xtra's coverage and inclusive mandate are watered-down when it comes to the rampant transphobia amongst many Queers. This transphobia includes, but is not limited to, the blatant misogyny that many cissexed women direct against their transsexual and transgendered sisters and the dehumanization that many cissexed men show to their transsexual and transgendered brothers. When the GLBA directory lists 'women's' that refuse transsexual women, and some cissexed gender-variant women, we have a problem. When Xtra's 'Homo Hangouts' host publicity for organizations that go out of their way to exclude transsexual women, we have a problem. When Xtra West adverstises 'women's' events that expect transsexual women to either stay on the sidelines or at home, and 'gay men's' events where transsexual guys may not be able to get in the door, or may enter only to be called 'it' we have a problem. When photo after photo tells us that the attractive bodies are Hollywood cissexed/cisgender-looking bodies, we have a problem. When the pictures of transsexual women in the original version of this article are edited out and replaced by a porn star, we have a problem. This problem is Transphobia. Not to name this problem is to enable it. Amy Fox Treasurer, Trans Alliance Society
Amy Fox, Vancouver BC
12/09/08 12:15 AM EST
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Zzzzzzzzzz
Boy this article is a real snoozer. Anybody with half a brain knows this stuff. The only thing I have to add is we who were born transsexual, in general, have fewer hang-ups about sex and gender than anyone else. You all are so far behind us it's silly. But at the same time in your ignorance you treat us like sh*t. Hopefully thing will start to change, but I'm not holding my breath. If I sound upset and bitter, well you would be too if you'd been through what we have.
xrk9854, USA USA
12/09/08 9:24 AM EST
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A Picture Is Worth A 1000 Words
It is saying a lot that rather than using a photograph of a trans woman/trans women from our community, Xtra West has printed a photo from Buck Angel's website.
Amber Dawn, Vancouver British Columbia
12/09/08 11:18 AM EST
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Xtra West can do better than this
Dear Editor, I'm not usually a fan of Vancouver's "gay and lesbian" paper because Xtra West doesn't tell stories about my queer communities. But I picked up Xtra West for the first time in years just to read Denise Sheppard's piece about trans/gendered desire, "Evolution of Desire" on December 4th. I appreciated how Denise highlighted the intersections of sexuality and trans/gender within queer communities- and asked queer communities to look at how desire, sex, power, and transphobia play out. But the editing left much to be desired, Xtra. With the usual subtlety of a sledgehammer the article was sexed up, challenging quotes by queer trans women were buried, and a porn star was the starring online image. In the article, Gwen Hawoth says, "[...] queer desire won't truly evolve until gays and lesbians address the transphobia that still shapes many of their responses to trans people." That means you too, Xtra West. The paper needs to improve how it edits stories about communities that don't fit into the "gay and lesbian" categories. I want to see more articles too- and when you've got a diversity of people interviewed about a topic, I want to see images that reflect that. S.J. Bradd
S Bradd, Vancouver BC
12/09/08 11:21 PM EST
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Editor's Note
I really appreciate all the time and energy readers have put into discussing and debating this feature. I am very proud of the article, and the passion that writer Denise Sheppard poured into it.

Having discussed the piece and its presentation with a number of people there is one thing I would change if I could. I would add a transwoman to the mix of visuals to counter the invisibility so explicitly discussed within the piece.

While it's too late to add such a photo and caption to the print version, I can add it online.

Thanks to all our readers who took the time to engage in this discussion. All your feedback not only makes the piece worthwhile but strengthens our community as a whole and helps us all grow together. Please keep the comments coming.

Robin Perelle, managing editor, Vancouver BC
12/15/08 4:07 PM EST
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comment as requested
Change PTP's mission statement and mandate to make it inclusive. Anything else is a half-measure and creates 'separate but equal' second-class citizenship for trans folks. Strengthen "our" community as a whole? Grow "together"? Puhhhleeeeze! Make change, then the rhetoric won't sound (and be) so hollow.
Shannon B., Ottawa Ontario
12/16/08 4:13 PM EST
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misogyny
I remain in awe of the article, its interest and challenge to expectations and accepted notions withing the gay community and beyond. Yet, even as ShannonB and others have commented there is something lacking about the frame in which it is placed. While there is a reverence for transmen, even a porn star, there is something quite different for transwomen. So much of what we experience is not transphobia, but as Shelley has described it, repudiation, or as Serano has stated, plain old misogyny--hatred of women. Not the men we were, but the women we are. Though all trans people are "among the most subjugated and marginalized of social groups" (as Shelley has written) to be a woman, particularly in communities where masculinity is elevated--as we can see in the frame of this piece--is not only unpleasant but dangerous. In our "communities" transmen are considered more "transgressive" though hardly noticed by the wider community--not so much because they were once women, but because they are now men. To be a man not a woman is not particularly surprising to the mainstream--or threatening. After all, who would want to be a woman? And a feminine one at that.
Jessica Freedman, Ottawa Ontario
12/16/08 7:48 PM EST
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Thanks
Thanks XtraWest, for publishing Denise Sheppard’s excellent article, Shifting Desires, in the December 4th issue. (I wish I had written before your next issue came out, but December time speeds up and it got away on me. I thought I’d send my thanks, anyways.) Reading about people like Cole Dodsley and Nelson Wong makes me wistful for the 20, even 30-something years, with that sense of having a lifetime ahead, because I think the world is going to get even more interesting. I’ve thought for some time, that taking over from sexual orientation, the exploration of gender is the new frontier of our evolution; now pushing our boundaries. That seems to be happening, and good for you, putting it on your cover. One article can’t hope to address all the nuances, perspectives, and issues affecting trans people, and their families/friends/lovers. I thought Shifting Desires was a great start. One of the many things I got from seeing the movie, Milk, is an appreciation (we succeeded!) for how much easier it is now, for many at least, to come out. I hope the exploration of gender leads to something similar. It’s a terrible thing, as many gay people personally know, to feel “wrong”, simply for being. Hopefully soon, a person will be able to live in a differently-sexed body than who they feel they are, without feeling wrong. I admire people like Cole Dodsley for having the courage to own their gender and celebrate their sexuality, while living in a differently-sexed body; for bringing that diversity into harmony. They are now the pioneers. I am seldom discontent with my ageing, but damn… Nash
Nash, Vancouver BC
12/28/08 7:39 PM EST
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