The Centre considers moving out of the gay village
THE CENTRE / Community members outraged
Natasha Barsotti / Vancouver / Friday, April 17, 2009
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ALL OPTIONS STILL OPEN. Centre co-chair Craig Maynard (left with board member Rebecca Shields) refused to rule out moving The Centre out of the West End, Apr 16.
(Natasha Barsotti photo)
Queer community members were swift to condemn the potential relocation of The Centre outside of the West End, saying the move would lead to the death of the organization.

"Everybody's reaction is, 'They're going to do what?' in various tones of alarm, dismay and 'No, no, they can't possibly do that,'" lawyer barbara findlay told The Centre's board of directors Apr 16.

"I do speak for other people — lots of other people — and the sense of those people is that, first of all, if you move to Burrard and 7th, you will kill The Centre. Period, full stop," findlay warned the board, which met at co-chair Craig Maynard's home in the West End.

"The result of moving The Centre would be that the community itself is degraded by your loss," findlay further cautioned.

"Because we are a relatively insular community and we will come to the West End — we will go to Little Sister's, we'll go to The Centre, we'll go to the activities that are down here at the bars — but a little outpost on 7th and Burrard just is not going to be enough of a draw to take anybody over the bridge," she said.

Findlay also challenged the suggestion that the Burrard location would be more accessible, pointing out that the street grade would be too steep for people to wheel up or come down. "Effectively, there's no advantage from a physically-accessible point of view," she said.

She said it's important to locate a community centre where the community is. 

"You wouldn't put the Croatian community centre in Surrey," she said.

"What I'm here to say to you is you can die a slow death financially or you can commit suicide," she added.

Little Sister's co-owner Jim Deva also attended the meeting. He said having The Centre in the Davie Village is vital to "a viable LGBT core."

Deva proposed a fundraising plan that would see Pride weekend used to raise money for The Centre. He said he has approached the Pride Society about the plan.

"Let's really bring The Centre to Pride and when people are in that mood of 'what can you do, how can you do it?' — that's the time to nail them and get them supporting you," Deva said.

"You can't be The Centre in isolation," former city councillor Alan Herbert told the board. "They are diametrically opposed."

"You are not the community centre. The community centre is the community's. You are the stewards of the community centre. That's what you are," Deva said.

"Be very, very careful," he warned, "that the community centre progresses and you're not the board that ends the community centre."

"Nobody wants more to keep The Centre alive than this board," said The Centre's executive director Jennifer Breakspear.

"You all have been giving us hell about that [current Bute and Davie] location for years," she pointed out. "Those stairs? Those stairs are a shame. Every time I greet a visitor in that place, I'm ashamed of those stairs. This is something we've taken flak for from this community for years.

"We need accessible street-level space we can be proud of from which we can deliver our programs and services for our community. That's what we're about," Breakspear emphasized.

"We're not looking to do any damage to the Davie Village or this community," she further stressed. "We're looking to continue to enhance this community. If there were space to do that right now in the Davie Village, we'd be all over that," she said.

"And if — and this is an if, it's not a done deal — if The Centre moves out of the Davie Village, it would always be with the intent of returning, to a true beautiful home of our own. It would never be a permanent move," Breakspear promised.

"This board has never considered that as a possibility," she continued. "It is always to come home again — if we have to leave, and we don't know yet whether we do," she said.

Breakspear said the board is examining its options because it needs to cut its operating costs, but said thus far there were no architecturally appropriate sites in the West End. She said  "shutting [the board] at the gate" while it explores its possibilities is shortsighted.

"It's not accurate to say there are no architecturally appropriate sites," findlay countered.

Not street-level sites, Breakspear fired back.

Trying to cut The Centre off in a process of exploration doesn't serve the community, Breakspear reiterated.

"I'm hearing you say, 'barbara, you're fucking it up,'" findlay replied. 'Here you've gone, you've released all this information that we were trying to keep confidential. It's going to make it really hard for us to negotiate with anybody, and who are you to say that the consideration of all the options that we've made carefully and with the best information we can gather is a wrong decision for the community.'

"All I'm here to tell you is the reaction of the people of the community," findlay said. "And I am here to tell you that in the strongest possible terms."

Findlay then asked the board to reject the Burrard and 7th option and announce to the community that it won't be moving out of the West End.

Maynard refused.

"I know we're not going to have a decision tonight," he told Xtra West after the meeting.

Asked if locations outside the West End are still on the table, Maynard says every option is under consideration. "Wherever we can make the best use of our resources. It's about the people that we serve."
Tags: the centre


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Reader Comments


 
Really?
Why are people so afraid to leave their ghetto in this town? No wonder there are so many messes out there. Have you ever taken a look around? Davie Street is not exactly the safest or prettiest place around. And no rainbow flag is gonna clean that up. You might have more people, afraid of coming out of the closet to a place that isn't such a 'gay' area. Cause God forbid they been seen in the gay part of town. Ask how many patrons of f212 use the front door as opposed to the back. They built that back entrance to that business for a purpose. Upon request. If a person doesn't get out there, live and experience things. They aren't going to grow. And thats what it seems the whole 'gotta be in the hood' mentality appears to be coming too. How welcoming is that?
Holy Crap, Vancouver - without boundaries BC
04/18/09 12:08 AM EST
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location, location, location
This is in response to Holy Crap. The Centre should stay in the gaybourhood. The gay community centres in my hometown Montreal and my university town Toronto both have their gay community centres in their respective ghettos: 2075 rue Plessis in Montreal and 519 Church Street for Toronto(both in their respective gaybourhoods). When coming out, I would have felt more at ease going to a centre in a gay area. At the time of my coming out in Montreal, the gay centre was NOT in a gay area and I was more self-conscious, When I went to university, it was comforting going to the 519 on Church Street in Toronto.
Clifford C, Vancouver BC
04/18/09 1:48 AM EST
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ghetto ghetto ghetto
Well Clifford. Its not 1975 anymore and even then it wasn't that hard. Where's your balls? The Centres aren't just for those coming out either. An individual is going to have to be brave at some point or another. Or are all gays weak? I know of plenty of people from all sorts of backgrounds in Canada who have found it much easier to come out now. Its about mentorship too. Being perhaps a gentle guide instead of jumping into bed to maybe take advantage of the situation. Imagine nowadays, going online, meeting other people with similar interests to discuss such thing, to meet at a coffee shop, to go out to a movie... There are way more options now. Young people and their families should be given more credit. If its for financial reasons, well then its better they move and still be in operation with perhaps an expanded campaign. Its better than not being open at all. Its important to have a centre, but if its not feasible, its not gonna happen. If the Davie Street area was so precious, wouldn't we all be taking care of it better? Many cities have gay establishments spread throughout and do just fine. Leave the bubble. See a little something.
Holy Crap, Vancouver - without boundaries BC
04/18/09 2:50 AM EST
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Ghetto.. How about Community
Something bigger than what we are as individuals.A place to be with other who share common interests. A place for people who feel alone can relax and start to discover who they are. Communties have a value in that they bring people together. Where a butch, a bear,a twink,and everything in between, can live in relative harmony.......
Former Volunteer, Vancouver BC
04/18/09 4:43 PM EST
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Wish
I wish Davie street felt more like a community.
KP, Vancouver BC
04/18/09 11:18 PM EST
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Davie Street is a dump
Seriously, who feels any sense of pride walking down that skid row? Sick, addicted, poor, dirty, elderly people are the majority. Forget gay ghettos..they are over.
ron, Vancouver Bc
04/19/09 1:38 AM EST
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Community
It takes some effort to build a community. Some are willing. Some are not.
Former Volunteer, Vancouver BC
04/19/09 12:08 PM EST
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Why community?
I agree that the Centre should be located in a "safe space" for those just coming out, I really hate these "community" arguments. There are a lot of queer people in this city, and they come from all sorts of communities. There are married gays in Point Grey, dyke punks in Strathcona, yuppy gays in Yaletown, skinny pants hipster gays on Main, and married lesbians with kids in Kits. Xtra only ever focuses on the silly, tiny bubble of the West End, where people cower in fear that the rest of the world won't be able to handle their gayness. Get over yourselves, nobody in this city cares.
vancouverit, Vancouver BC
04/19/09 1:29 PM EST
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whats the big fuss???
I think that it is about time for the Centre to grow up and move out of its limited space at the Bute and Davie location. I was a volunteer for years at the centre and i find it embarassing that Vancouver with such a large gay community has such a shabby building for its centre. If it is at all possible we should keep the centre in the West End, even if it cant be on Davie street. However it would not be the death of the community if the Centre had to locate eleswhere. Part of coming out of the closet is having the courage to stand up for your sexuality no matter where you are. The West End of Vancouver is not the only place that LGBT folks live or gather. I live near Burnaby and I attend the Centre at least once a week on a regular basis. I believe that currently there are two easily identified foci of the LGBT community in Vancouver already. One is the West End and the other is Commercial Drive. What about locating on the Drive? The costs would be more reasonable and it is easily accesible by both car and transit. Wherever the location ends up being we need to remember that LGBT folks work and gather all across the lower mainland from Surrey to the North Shore and the Davie corridor is not the only location possible for the Centre.
Colin S, vancouver b.c.
04/20/09 12:15 AM EST
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The Centre's Responsse
In response to: “The Centre considers moving out of the gay village”, printed Friday, April 17, 2009. Without a doubt, there is tremendous historic and symbolic significance to The Centre remaining in the Davie Village. However, in today’s economic climate, more than ever, The Centre must explore ways to remain economically viable. Like most not-for-profit organizations, we’ve seen significant drops in personal and corporate donations, with no significant increase in government funding. Despite that, The Centre has managed to keep its finances on budget. We will continue to do so. However, expenses associated with our current location – or with any other West End location we have investigated over the past few years – simply aren’t sustainable in the long term, unless we reduce our programs and services. As well, our community has repeatedly asked The Centre to address the inaccessibility of our current location. In fact, it was the top priority identified in the extensive public consultation process of our recent Feasibility Study. In balancing our immediate need to sustain programs and services and the ongoing challenges to make The Centre welcoming and accessible to all members of our diverse community, we are thinking outside the box to find a space that: • Allows access to everyone • Significantly reduces our leasing costs • Brings all of our current programs and services under one roof • Provides a safe and comfortable workplace for our staff • Is close to major transit routes In response to: “The Centre considers moving out of the gay village”, printed Friday, April 17, 2009. We are confident that if we fulfill these goals, The Centre will remain a vital part of our queer communities by providing programs and services to all members, regardless of their postal code, or ours. A location outside the West End is indicative of how we’ve proudly and openly put down our roots in neighbourhoods all over the Lower Mainland and across the
Craig Maynard, Vancouver BC
04/20/09 4:12 PM EST
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The Centre's Response continued
... the province. Board of Directors The Centre
Craig Maynard, Vancouver BC
04/21/09 12:23 AM EST
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What happened to space in th Coast Hotel?
Didn't the Vancouver Courier run a story last year about The Centre being in talks with the new owners of the current Coast Hotel complex? I thought that they were talking about space in the office areas that will become available when the Current Coast Hotel shuts down at Comox & Denman. That building is supposed to begin its conversion into rental apartments and office space at the end of this year. Did those talks fall through or is it too long to wait for that to come to fruition?
TheTruthiness, Vancouver BC
04/21/09 3:12 PM EST
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Where is the voice of the community?
I thought that the Centre was the "voice" of the community? Nobody asked me about my opinion on this matter No one asked for help in maintaining "our" Centre This is so irresponsible. What are they hiding over there? How about an opportunity for our community to speak?
R Stenes, Vancouver East BC
04/22/09 2:29 AM EST
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Disgusted
My friends and I were so shocked to read this article. Thank you to Xtra west for exposing this. We look forward to you keeping us in the loop about this seeing as the Centre can't (or won't) We have a right to know. I was a volunteer at the Centre and I was hoping to go back but not after I read this. I will not be renewing my membership and I will be encouraging my friends to remove their support as well. If you don't value my opinion than you don't get my support- financial or otherwise. This is going to take a lot to repair. Disappointed
David Jay, Vancouver B C
04/22/09 2:37 AM EST
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Sad
I can't imagine a gay community centre not being located in what is perceived to be the 'official' centre of that community. True, gay people are spread out all over the city, and it's not as if Burrard and 7th is in Timbuktu, but the message this sends is sad. Everyone knows you can locate The Centre anywhere and that people who need its services will find a way to get there, but not having The Centre in the West End (or at least downtown) will add further to the sense of fragmentation that exists in the community. I know a move might be practical, and it sure beats closing up altogether, but the appearance of it all is troubling --- and we all know how powerful appearances can be...
Eddy Elmer, Vancouver BC
04/22/09 6:30 AM EST
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"WEST END" community members outraged
Xtra West has long been pushing the fallacy that the West End is the Vancouver gay world. Really! No doubt most gay men and women live outside the West End – because it has nothing for the vast majority of us. The bars? Your life centers on a BAR? Do you think that Davie Street is the only place in town where two guys or two girls can hold hands? Get outta town! The women can tell you how cruisy Metrotown is for them. Go there, count the number of women walking around holding hands. Lots. Go to many small BC towns and look for all the gay people. This weekend I saw three visibly gay male couples, and a few female couples, in SOOKE! Do you know that other cities and towns have gay nights in their bars, and that a certain hotel outside the downtown / West End has regular gay nights? You patronize the mediocre restaurants on Davie? Is it because you can’t cross a bridge to find better? Oh, how pathetic. You’d have to cross a bridge to get to the proposed new gay center location! Oh my god! Are you all aware that The Center runs programs which actually take place outside of the West End? Of course you don’t. You’d have to cross a bridge to find out. Oh, I know what it is. You guys all have those special shopping cart theft protection devices in your shoes. Cross a line at Davie and Burrard, and your feet stop. These stories are amusing anyway. Keep writing them.
Dexter, VANCOUVER BC
04/22/09 11:02 AM EST
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hmm
Dexter, you seem to be talking about people who are already out, not those who are still struggling with their sexual identity -- the ones that are most likely to benefit from the services offered by organizations like The Centre. For many of these young people, their perception is that the West End is where they will find lots of other people just like them. It would be nice if they knew that there is a whole big gay world out there and that society is increasingly tolerant of homosexuality, but when you consider how sheltered some of these young people are (think of the isolated gay teenager living up North with a strict, religious family), they don't know this. If places like The Centre exist to help people who are first coming out (among others), then they should be located where these people are most likely to gravitate to. This is especially the case for those who are still questioning and might therefore not even consider seeking services. If you move The Centre on Burrard & 7th, the likelihood of reaching these people will be greatly reduced. Services must come to them, not the other way around. Yes, in a perfect world this wouldn't be the case because everyone would be full of initiative and go after what they needed, but it's not a perfect world. If the goal is to reach out and offer help and support to those who are most in need, then we have to stop being idealistic and start being practical.
Eddy Elmer, Vancouver BC
04/23/09 4:53 AM EST
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$$$
If you people in the 'community' think it just HAS to be there and absolutely no where else, then you better pony up and financially support the place cause its going to move. You can talk all you want but if you aren't going to go into action, then you can't fault others for trying to do their best to at least still provide the services available no matter where it is. As for me, I grew up on a farm in a very religious community. It was not a problem coming out of the closet. Times have changed tremendously. You can find support where you least expect it.
Graham Foster, Vancouver BC
04/23/09 11:53 AM EST
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Money
It would seem to me that moving The Centre elsewhere and offering services that fewer people will use would be an even bigger waste of already scarce resources. Furthemore, there are people in the community who are offering to help The Centre with their financial difficulties. And I'm glad that you didn't have problems coming out of the closet, but many other people don't have it that easy.
Eddy Elmer, Vancouver BC
04/23/09 12:48 PM EST
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Community Accountability
Congratulations to both barbara findlay and the Centre. Genuinely. These are tough discussions to have and even tougher negotiations to complete. The Centre is doing a fine job of implementing the results of it's community consultations. If accessibility was identified as the #1 priority, then it should be addressed as such. Tough economic times mean tough decisions; I appreciate that both temporary and long-term solutions are being discussed and that all avenues are being explored. Congrats to barbara, too. These sorts of decisions need to be made out in public so that the community consultation is an ongoing process that doesn't cease at a survey deadline! The Centre should be at the centre of the community. Thanks for keeping our voices heard and our community intact.
FanTran, Vancouver BC
04/23/09 1:53 PM EST
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Better think fast...
This is not the end of it. Gays/Lesbians are being gently broomed out from the West-End fo many years (if you do not own a place). I guess it is time to consider another neighbourhood.The Centre moving is not the end but only the start of something new.We need more affordable housing in order to keep a form of Village which will meet our needs.
Louis Bloom, Vancouver BC
05/01/09 11:55 AM EST
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