Freedom of speech?
QUEER TO ETERNITY / Going too far is one thing. Hate speech is another.
Mette Bach / Vancouver / Thursday, April 08, 2010
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I can be opinionated. Heck, even abrasive. And I consider that my right since we live in a democracy, and, theoretically speaking, everyone has a right to their opinion.

I know I offend some people and, because of that, I expect to be called on what I say. I try to be careful, but sometimes I get carried away, swept into the seductive notion that I’m totally right about something and someone else — the leader of our country, say — is wrong. It’s a dangerous game.

Something that feels funny or harmless or cheeky to me while I’m at home in my track pants, drinking sparkling water and listening to Enya, will look radically different when I see it in print. I’ve regretted a few things I’ve published; there are plenty of moments where I’ve lacked tact or taste.

As someone who has publicly fumbled — in print — many times, I have sympathy for creative people who go too far.

But going too far is one thing. Hate speech is another.

Ottawa students sent the loud and clear message that they did not want American propaganda writer (she prefers the term “journalist”) Ann Coulter to speak. I say: awesome.

Sure, the university invited her, but the students already knew what she was about — anti-Semitism, Islamophobia and homophobia — so it was easy enough to say “No thanks” or actually, “No more hate speech on our campus.”

We need more of that. It was the perfect way to express freedom. Speaking out is what people do in a healthy democracy.

Canada’s media empires, while troublesome (no argument there!), are not built on the kind of sensationalism that breeds folks like Coulter. Fox News is the classic example, but there are dozens of famous American “journalists” whose careers are built on inciting outrage.

And just when I thought this kind of thing couldn’t happen in Vancouver, it did. I read an article in the Courier slamming the people I admire the most, taking work they’ve done out of context, misrepresenting them and blatantly provoking.

Mess with a community’s heroes and you’re messing with a whole community and its allies. 

I expect columnists to be biased. I even expect them to be wrong sometimes. In fact, that’s often why I read columnists: to have an imaginary argument with someone I don’t know. But I don’t expect columnists to bold-faced lie or resort to malice or smearing community activists.

When creative expression turns into an excuse to spread lies and anger, it’s up to everyone to say they don’t want to hear it. Ottawa said no to Coulter. Vancouver can say no, too. It’s the only democratic thing to do.


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Reader Comments


 
mette bach, you are a fascist
you are an evil fascist free speech means free speech. not free speech only for those who agree with you. your definition of "hate speech" is speech you hate. being offensive and hateful is a persons right as long as they do not comitt a hate crime. hate crimes and hate speech are not the same. hate speech is tool used by fascistslike you to shut down speech you don't like. turn in your lesbian card - you need to go join the nazi party - where you will find lots of like minded hate speech fascists who agree with you.
democracy not fascism, toronto ontario
04/08/10 10:39 AM EST
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I tilt my imaginary hat to you
I must say that I am quiet pleased to read that i'm not the only one saying that U of Ottawa did a good thing by saying no. People of this country forget that we are not the US in the fact is are officially a multicultural country which values respect, human rights and multiculturalism. Free speech is not one of the values, you can be fired from your job for comments or 'jokes' Ann Coulter makes. (Not to mention you go far enough you can be expelled from school for such behavior) I personally think Ann Coulter should be banned from the field for terrorist like thinking (creating fear and spreading it is the same as blowing up a building by definition). We may have free speech but in this global world, free speech doesn't really exist so if you want to have a strong opinion than you should be required to walk a few km in there shoes and look through there eyes before opening your mouth and offending someone. If Ann Coulter was a male and making sexist comments at females she would automatically be kicked out so why is this so different when she's offending the very country we live in?
Sam, Waterloo Ontario
04/08/10 1:12 PM EST
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I'll Just Make Two Points
(1) Ann Coulter's critics frequently accuse Coulter of speaking hatefully, but when she spoke before her university audiences in London, Ontario, and Calgary, she was not charged with hate speech. Why? Because Coulter's provocative language isn't really hate speech. It is merely speech that her critics hate. She committed no legal offence while in Canada. (2) "Ottawa" did not say no to Coulter. Only some students and teachers objected to her visit. Quite a few students at the university wanted to hear Coulter speak, but they were prevented from doing so. What about their rights? Do they not have the right to hear Ann Coulter and draw their own conclusions? Why should a mob of anti-Coulter protesters have the power to short-circuit other people's right to peacefully assemble and listen?
R. Franklin Carter, Toronto Ontario
04/10/10 4:45 PM EST
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Typical disgusting leftist bullshit
Leftists are the real haters. When leftists don't like what they hear, they shut down debate. Leftists, like the pathetic amateur writer cunt who wrote this shit article hate freedom and different opinions.
ron, Vancover Bc
04/11/10 1:43 AM EST
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more details?
I'm not aware of the Courier article, but presumably it was homophobic. I hope that the community has spoken up in defense of whoever was being smeared, and I'm disappointed in the Courier for publishing inaccurate sensationalism if that's what happened. YAY for freedom of speech that understands this: freedom comes with responsibilities and should not be abused in hateful ways.
RW, Vancouver BC
04/15/10 10:36 PM EST
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comments as hate speech
Why is XTRA publishing comments that contain hate speech like the example found in the comment titled "Typical Disgusting Leftist Bullshit." This is a complex argument around freedom of speech, and the line needs to be drawn when misogynist name calling is used. Take this disgusting and inarticulate comment off of your comments page!!! XTRA has violated its own guidelines by publishing this.
David Bateman, Toronto Ontario
04/15/10 11:20 PM EST
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Where's the moderation
I've read both the article and the responses... and somethings wrong here. It's as if some of the readers of the article think the writer is totally closed minded and has gone way too far in her approach to the issue at hand. But, read their responses and you get words like "cunt" "fascist" and "evil" - words not used by the author and attitude not expressed by the author. Just who is being closed minded here. Read the article twice, maybe three times before jumping to your own "biased" knee-jerk response to what I thought was a rather mellow approach to the free speech issue.
DBC, Vancouver BC
04/16/10 9:58 AM EST
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To R. Franklin
Point of fact, when you threaten to blow people up or convert them to Christianity, that's hate speach -- it's feeding the fire of violence. Second, COULTER cancelled the appearance for publicity. It had nothing to do with the crowd. And as for the people who scream and yell about left and right I would like to state I am CANADIAN and I don't define myself by which side of an argument I take.
Garpinbc, Vancovuer BC
04/16/10 5:49 PM EST
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Xtra Obligated to BOTH Reader AND Employee
Wow, I thought that these sites were moderated, in exactly the same way newspaper editorials, sent in by readers, were moderated. For a newspaper, a writer must: a. Identify themselves and b. Use appropriate language. While the internet has created the opportunity for ugly anonymous ranting, particular websites need not be party to 'em, right?!? There are tens of thousands of places these folks can get their jollies off by behaving like 3rd-graders, no?? I worked eons ago for Ma Bell in Seattle (Pacific Northwest Bell, before they were torn apart in the name of reducing their monopoly, only to create more and bigger monopolies) as a "Directory Assistance Operator." The company had a policy that REQUIRED us to listen to any caller/customer, until that person hung up, NO MATTER THE LANGUAGE THEY WERE USING, NO MATTER WHAT THEY WERE SAYING. It was worse than disgusting as a policy, and apparently, like the Lovelies who've named Miss Bach a 'Fascist' and a 'Cunt', the Ma Bell customer knew we could not hang up on them. These Web Lovelies likely know that their missives will stay up forever. Nothing like vulgar posterity, eh? Finally, PNB changed the policy, and when a customer started in on a disgusting personal expletive-filled rant, we were allowed to hang up on 'em. The law, at least in the United States, came down on the side of the employee, stating that FORCING an employee to listen to vulgar, degrading, disgusting language --- even if it was coming from a NON-employee, such as a paying customer --- was a type of harassment that could not be tolerated. It's funny what a lawsuit will do, which is why Canadians -- and so many others around the world -- believe we are such a litigious culture here in the U.S. We are FORCED to file lawsuits against inane rules and dumbfounding idiocy because of people such as those who allow this hateful speech on the Xtra website. Miss Bach's employer, Xtra, has an OBLIGATION to both their reader
J Russo, Portland Oregon United States
04/16/10 8:48 PM EST
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Xtra Obligated, Con't'd:
I worked eons ago for Ma Bell in Seattle (Pacific Northwest Bell, before they were torn apart in the name of reducing their monopoly, only to create more and bigger monopolies) as a "Directory Assistance Operator." The company had a policy that REQUIRED us to listen to any caller/customer, until that person hung up, NO MATTER THE LANGUAGE THEY WERE USING, NO MATTER WHAT THEY WERE SAYING. It was worse than disgusting as a policy, and apparently, like the Lovelies who've named Miss Bach a 'Fascist' and a 'Cunt', the Ma Bell customer knew we could not hang up on them. These Web Lovelies likely know that their missives will stay up forever. Nothing like vulgar posterity, eh? Finally, PNB changed the policy, and when a customer started in on a disgusting personal expletive-filled rant, we were allowed to hang up on 'em. The law, at least in the United States, came down on the side of the employee, stating that FORCING an employee to listen to vulgar, degrading, disgusting language --- even if it was coming from a NON-employee, such as a paying customer --- was a type of harassment that could not be tolerated. It's funny what a lawsuit will do, which is why Canadians -- and so many others around the world -- believe we are such a litigious culture here in the U.S. We are FORCED to file lawsuits against inane rules and dumbfounding idiocy because of people such as those who allow this hateful speech on the Xtra website. Miss Bach's employer, Xtra, has an OBLIGATION to both their readers AND their employees. No one need put up with harassment. In the U.S., it's not just the decent thing to do, it is also the law. Those are my two cents' worth -- from a Fascist Commie American Cunt - J Russo
J Russo, Portland Oregon United States
04/16/10 8:56 PM EST
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WTF
So she admits to having a reaction... It HER fucking column guys, and she's an excellent writer. Glad that you don't have your own column. Calling her a cunt? Wow. Mette is Hot and Mette, I want you to know because you're apparently a Cunt, that I LOVE cunt! To eat it, smell it and FUCK IT! Watch out, baby! Poor oppressed white, straight bitch guys with tiny dicks. This bull dyke wants to fuck your bitch-tits till you scream OBAMA. I really wish that you Right Wing Ass Hats would quit channeling Mickey Mouse and come up with something more original . You sound like you're from fucking Troutdale. Let's hope that like Rush Limbaugh, you go deaf from the sound of your own cunt-ass voice.
S. Lump, Salem, OR United States
04/17/10 2:53 AM EST
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Freedom for me, but none for thee
That's the official lib-left credo. Three leftists use "cunt" in their comments, including proud self-references, but when a conservative does so it's a hate crime to these socialist freaks of nature. Sorry dippers, but the public has had enough of your PC insanity.
ron, Vancouver Bc
04/17/10 3:52 AM EST
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Wah Wah Wah
white dude... wah wah wah. "but not for me" so fucking dramatic. I'll take all your bitch tits on. You need more butt pussy in your life!
Mr. Hectomy, Bald Eagle, AK US of fucking A
04/17/10 11:08 AM EST
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look in the mirror
ron all you ever do in your comments is use vile hate filled language to attack those you don't agree with which is pretty much everyone it seems, then you have the nerve to complain about those who don't agree with you and take exception to your crudeness? You can't have it both ways ron, your crude insults and attacks have no place in any sort of discussion, I'm sure you do so just to get people to pay attention to you for a little while since you have nothing of value to offer. Judging by your comments ron you come across as a bitter self loathing pathetic little individual full of rage and hatred and in need of professional help. You claim to be gay yet you support every anti-gay side in every gay rights issue that comes along, that your inability to say anything constructive and reliance solely on personal insults and attacks in your posts paints a pretty grim picture of yourself. I used to feel sorry for you ron but no more, you live in a city where there is plenty of help available to those in need, its up to you to make use of it though.
Rich, Toronto Ontario
04/17/10 3:35 PM EST
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Complex issues/Accountability
I am not surprised to find bigotry, sexism, abusive and misogynist people in any community. The issue, here, is not that such people exist and voice their hatred-- it's that Xtra West does not accept that they are 1) in a position of power, and 2) accountable for their action or inaction. Xtra West is a publication that has a responsibility to their employees and their readers. When they leave verbally abusive attacks upon their website they are 1) creating a toxic and unsafe work environment for their employees, and 2) exposing their readers to this same violent attack in a secondary way-- as witness to this attack. Xtra West's stance, I understand, is that they do not believe in "censorship", therefore, they will not remove comments, even when they are abusive and violent. Reducing the complexities of issues of censorship to a "yes" or "no" dichotomy is simplistic, unrealistic, and ultimately devolves into a situation such as the one before us. What it means is that someone could go and stand in the editor's office at Xtra West and shout obscenities at her because it's okay, it's free speech. Why should anyone be censored? Clearly, someone would call the police and have the abusive and verbally violent person forcibly removed. If people started sending in gay-bashing comments to everyone's columns at Xtra West, would they be allowed to remain, under the guise of 'freedom of speech'? Xtra West will then be in the position of printing the very hatred and homophobia they are striving to resist. Xtra West also has commentary guidelines. The abusive poster did not follow them. The poster was off topic and made personal attacks. I followed protocols and wrote to the moderator. What has been done about it? What will be done? Why have a "report comment to moderator" if there is no intention of moderating? The silence from the moderator is stupendous. How can we trust that Xtra West is a safe space fo
Hiromi Goto, Edmonton AB
04/17/10 5:53 PM EST
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Stunned
Hiromi Goto said it perfectly. I totally agree. As a former columnist for Xtra, I feel lucky that I never got comments like this. I'm disappointed and annoyed that the editors don't have a more complex understanding of censorship and free speech -- or, for that matter, the basics of creating a forum for intelligent discussion as opposed to insults. The word "cunt" used as an insult is very powerful. Pretty basic expectation that you wouldn't allow it to stay posted. Of course you should leave up comments that disagree with Mette or other writers. But insults for insults sake? Please. Can Xtra explain how reading the insulting misogynist comments adds to their readers' experience? Who/what would suffer if you "censored" the comment? Also, your guidelines say: Do not get personal and do not defame others. If you see defamatory comments made in other people’s postings, report them to our moderator, who will investigate within two business days. WTF?
Sarah Leavitt, Vancouvre BC
04/17/10 8:11 PM EST
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Ann Coulter does not go far enough...
and neither do the "extreme right" folks responding here. Why are you reading a queer commentary anyway? I don't mind gay media, and don't typically read it, but I have to say that I am disgusted with Ann Coulter playing down her true beliefs to stay attractive to the public and keep the money rolling in. I honestly think that gays shouldn't be allowed to write at all. Or speak publicly either. I don't want myself, or my children to turn out gay, as a result of this "benign" exposure. Statistics don't lie.
GG, Winiow Alberta
04/17/10 11:05 PM EST
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Editor's Note
At Xtra, we take our responsibility very seriously. We consider it our responsibility to inform and incite our readers to engage with the world around them — and to provide the uncensored space for that engagement. We strive to provide a forum for vigorous discourse, no matter how offensive we may consider some of the opinions expressed. If nothing else, it gives us insight into the minds of our enemies. To me, someone who resorts to calling a columnist a "cunt" reveals their own lack of tools. But the solution is not to censor; it's to respond. It's to keep the discussion going, to give our readers a chance to be swayed one way or another and to make up their own minds. To the inarticulate commentators who can do no better than stoop to personal slurs, I suggest you back off, re-read our guidelines prohibiting personal attacks, and express a cogent argument — if you can. To everyone else, thank you for your passionate posts and your willingness to engage. Keep it coming.
Robin Perelle, Managing Editor, Xtra (Vancouver edition)
04/19/10 3:41 PM EST
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it is revealing at least
I for one never would have guessed that there would social conservative gay men, sure I could see LGBT folks as part of the Conservative party federally or the PCs provincially but I would expect them to be more socially progressive since as LGBT folks basic self preservation plays a role and the social conservative movement in Canada is very anti-gay and does not support equality rights for us. who in their right mind would join such folks if they were gay themselves? well it turns out ron would, (he doesn't capitalize his name so neither do I) I can only guess his attraction to those who want nothing to do with him and who believe he deserves no rights and should stay in the closet has something to do with internalized homophobia, a sad thing to be sure but as someone who lives in a large city he has plenty of resources to help him overcome this problem yet he chooses to not make use of them so no sympathy from me any more. Since ron never hesitates to insult and attack I feel free to write about him in ways I would never write about any other poster no matter how much I disagree with them. By allowing ron's posts xtra.ca is showing just how much internalized homophobia is still a part of our society even in our big cities where you wouldn't expect it. We're also shown the ignorance and hatred of the social conservative movement in Canada, even its gay members are prone to it. In that regard I do support the no censorship policy of xtra.ca. Its not like any of us haven't heard such rantings and hatred before and it gives us the opportunity to tell the offensive pigs who post exactly what we think of them and their views, something which I think is empowering in a way, it can also help refine our rebuttals to others we may come across in other situations and embolden us to stand up for ourselves where perhaps we might not have in the past since such things take practice.
Rich, Toronto Ontario
04/19/10 8:21 PM EST
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Editors Response misses point
In response to the EDITORS note: You state "If nothing else, it gives us insight into the minds of our enemies. To me, someone who resorts to calling a columnist a "cunt" reveals their own lack of tools. But the solution is not to censor; it's to respond." I disagree. While discourse and knowing the minds of our enemies is important, allowing others to abuse your journalists and writers verbally, (in written word) is refusing any responsibility for the tone and character you set for own paper. (unless of course this is intentinal, and I assume it is) Xtra's determination to never give an inch to even a hint of discrimination does more to encourage rude behavior (and it is nothing but simply RUDE) than it does to heighten the actual discussion at hand. Such rude behavoir will only stop once it is deemed unacceptable and not tolerated. Your attitude is that of an enabler, instead of a responsible journalist / editor. Is it not also the responsibility of GLBT concerns such as Xtra to help set a mature and responsible culture for all GLBT persons to participate in with maturity and dignity?
DBC, Vancouver BC
04/20/10 11:51 AM EST
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Editor's vision not okay
I'm also responding to the editor's note because she has clearly missed the point. If bullying is allowable in a space moderated by xtra, that sends a pretty powerful message to bullies: come on in! Have at 'er! Anything goes! I wonder how the editor feels about racial slurs and slander directed at gay men. Would that also be tolerated? What's the point of even having guidelines such as "do not get personal and do not defame others"? Xtra clearly supports personal attacks, verbal abuse and defamation.
LM, Edmonton Alberta
04/20/10 12:41 PM EST
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One Implication of Removing Crude Reader Comments
If Xtra starts censoring the crude and offensive comments of some readers, then I wonder how credible Xtra will be when it attacks the censorship of human rights tribunals or the Canada Border Services Agency. A news agency that attacks state censorship but censors its own readers would look hypocritical to me.
R. Franklin Carter, Toronto Ontario
04/20/10 1:14 PM EST
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Dangerous leftists
Bach has written THE most repulsive article to ever appear on Xtra! If nothing else, this repulsive article, and the astonishing dim-witted responses by hateful leftists, prove why no one should ever vote NDP or Liberal if you value freedom of expression. The writer Bach calls for abolishing our freedom of expression, a freedom won by tens of thousands of Canadians who sacrificed their lives. "going too far", as Mette calls it, is actually lefty code for unapproved speech. My grandparents went to war to destroy the enemy who wanted to dictate what words they could express. As such, it is the very least I should do to rightly call this femi-nazi bitch a "cunt" This is not bullying..it is defense...defense of freedom which she has attacked.
ron, Vancouver Bc
04/21/10 11:07 PM EST
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Gays should all die
I can't believe the government even allows fucking homo faggot cock sucking queers to have a newspaper. Gays should just all walk into the ocean and die miserable deaths with the octopuses and sea vermin, just like the vermin the gays are. I said that my grandparents fought in the war, yeah, the German army. I still treasure my grandfather's SS pin that he managed to salvage after his years in the American POW camp from 1945 to 48, when he killed a guard and escaped to Venezualla.At least that's the story he told me. That's why I think all lesbos are cunts. And shouldn't be allowed to write. Or any of you queer commies. Fuck all of you. Especially all you fucking cock sucking pussy faggots that publish this fucked up excuse for a newspaper.
ron, Vancouver BC
04/22/10 4:19 AM EST
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Hijacked nick
I did not write the previous post.
ron, Vancouver Bc
04/23/10 3:59 AM EST
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Simplistic Stance Undermines Editorial Intent
Principles do not exist in a vacuum. The simplistic editorial stance of "we will not censor" resulted in a particular kind of verbal violence directly aimed at a female columnist under your employ as well as secondary harm inflicted upon readers. Even as we live in a vastly homophobic world, it is also deeply entrenched in sexism and misogyny. The abusive languange was directed toward Ms. Bach through her gender in the most demeaning of ways. This is a specific kind of attack. The editorial choice of letting these comments remain, is, by default, participating in the continuation of the attack. I also question the claim of "non-censorship" by the editor. Does not the editor solicit and edit stories from her columnists in particular ways? Does she not send stories back, tell them to rewrite them and ask for a particular slant that reflects the vision and mandates of Xtra? This is what an editor DOES. The editor is also beholden to create an online space that is moderated for relevent and non-abusive discourse. If she truly holds to the simplistic stance as detailed above, she could not be able to direct or guide her writers in any way. And, everyone ought to submit their articles, whatever they may be, to Xtra because under the "non-censorship" banner held here, anything is A-Okay! A slagfest is not a discourse. And waving a single strand banner of "non-censorship" does not absolve anyone from other ethical concerns. Life, writing, publishing is enormously complex.
Hiromi Goto, Edmonton AB
04/23/10 4:18 PM EST
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No Harm Can Be Proven
Mr. Goto, you can claim that harm has occurred after a reader has posted an abusive rant on a Web page, but you cannot prove that harm has occurred. You cannot prove that anyone was physically injured or that someone's property was damaged. You cannot prove emotional or psychological injury either because they are impossible to quantify here. The most that you can say is that reading a profanity-laden rant is unpleasant. But without proof of harm, you cannot justify the "remedy" of censorship. It is simply unwarranted.
R. Franklin Carter, Toronto Ontario
04/24/10 10:31 AM EST
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