Council rejects Odyssey move
GAY SPACE / NPA councillor casts sole vote in favour of Denman relocation
Shauna Lewis / Vancouver / Friday, April 10, 2009
Share |

(Sarah Race photo)
Odyssey nightclub supporters left council chambers outraged yesterday after council turned down the gay club’s application to relocate to Denman St.
 
“I am very disappointed,” says owner Michael Levy.

“The gay community is the biggest loser.”

The city’s decision to turn down the relocation ends a two-month dispute between Odyssey supporters and Denman residents who opposed the club’s relocation.

According to city staff’s community consultation report, more people opposed the proposed relocation than supported it.

Levy says city council’s decision is shortsighted and unfair to the gay community.

“It’s not question of winning or losing here,” he says. “It’s about doing what is right. I don’t feel that council made the right decisions.”

After two days of hearings -- which spanned two weeks and 30 speakers --  city council ruled against allowing the club to move to 911 Denman St; citing noise pollution to the surrounding residential neighbourhood as the biggest concern.

Councillor Andrea Reimer was the first to make a motion opposing the club’s relocation to Denman St.

Council’s sole NPA representative, Suzanne Anton, was the only councillor to support the club’s relocation.

“I’m satisfied that, from what the club argued, it [disturbance to neighbours] can be controlled,” she said, before introducing her motion to override Reimer’s previous motion.

But Anton could not get council’s support for her motion.

Councillor George Chow called the Odyssey a “cultural icon” but maintained that a residential area is not the best location for the club.

Chow made a motion to mandate city staff to aid the Odyssey in finding a new home. That motion passed.

“I don’t think it [Denman St] is the appropriate place for the Odyssey,” said lesbian councillor Ellen Woodsworth. “I would like the Odyssey to move to a place where it can be even more wonderful and powerful than it is now and I don’t think this is the place.”

Woodsworth said she supports mandating the city to help the Odyssey find a suitable place where both the neighbourhood and club can flourish.

“I’m horrified,” says drag queen and Odyssey supporter Joan-E. “She [Woodsworth] knows more than anyone else that we are a generation and a half from the day when gay people could only be in gay clubs. She just succeeded in closing the only full-time gay cabaret in Vancouver and she couldn’t even look us in the eye to do it.”

While supporters of the Odyssey expressed anger, opponents of the move rejoiced.

“I feel satisfied. The community has won this argument,” says Denman resident Fionna Bayley.

The elderly woman, who has lived in the West End for years, says she was upset when club supporters blamed opponents for destroying gay culture. “We are not destroying anything,” she asserts. “We have a lot of gay people in our building.”

Levy says the city has agreed to meet with him Apr 14 to discuss the possibility of another lease extension for the nightclub at its long-time home on Howe St.

“Staff has graciously extended an olive branch saying we can work out an extension. If we can get an extension there is something to look forward to [but] right now there is nothing,” he says.



Share |


Reader Comments


 
It was jucier than that!
Some peolpe accuse xtra west of being sensationalist and exaggerating at times. This article is very tame compared to what happened. There were some good juicy "unaaceptable" comments, and gays were told by a councillor to get over ourselves, that the world wouldn't end. He cited the example of his father's favourite chinese restaurant closing. (he was very upset apparently) Evetually he liked another one before too long. Ask JOAN E what she thought of that! Or watch the streaming video, if they haven't edited her comments out. It was after the meeting was adjourned. Someone else I am sure can tell their favourite story of the day.
Blair Smith, Vancouver BC
04/10/09 10:01 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
The next step
It comes down to this: Unless something is done NOW, The Odyssey WILL be closed April 30. Our application for relocation was denied by the same people who kicked us out of our current home. If you want the O around long enough to find a new place... get your anger flowing please... If you don't feel it yet, try this on... a sitting Councillor compared the loss of THE ODYSSEY to the loss of his father's favourite CHINESE RESTAURANT-- he was sad for a while, then he just found another one. This was an actual arguement made by our elected officials. Understand that City Hall has NO incentive or requirement to extend our stay on Howe St. unless they are FORCED to by a massive amount of external pressure. That's YOU GUYS. GET ANGRY ABOUT THIS. It's the only way we stick around. Tell City Hall "YOU made this mess... YOU kicked us out... YOU denied our attempt to move... so YOU need to let us stay where we are until we find a space that YOU deem "appropriate" Do it now. The 40+ staff members of the Odyssey who have been fighting this for a YEAR now can NOT pull this off alone. If you want more than 1 1/2 gay clubs in Vancouver, WRITE/CALL NOW. TALK ABOUT THIS. And stay tuned for more ways YOU can have a direct impact on Vancouvers LGBT Cultural Landscape. Write: mayorandcouncil@vancouver.ca today and contact Will via facebook for more ways to help out. We have 3 weeks Vancouver. Please wake up and take notice.
Will McGuire @ The Odyssey, Vancouver BC
04/10/09 10:38 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
RE The Next Step
The next step is to get over yourselves ! It's a bar people. It doesn't save lives, or fight crime, or even really entertain that many people anymore. Eg you can stroll down there on a Saturday night at mid-night and walk right in. How many people live, work, and play downtown ? Thousands. How many people work at the O on a given night ? about 20. How many people party at the O on a given night ? about 175. So lets add this up 20 employees plus 175 customers equals 195 people, compared to thousands of people in the area. Will it make that much of a difference in the lives of thousands if the O finally goes away ? NOPE.
Jeff, Vancouver B.C.
04/10/09 10:56 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Let's unite
As you've probably heard city council voted to deny the Odyssey's application to relocate to 911 Denman street. If we can't get our lease extended until a suitable location is found, one more piece of gay culture will be destroyed in this city. You may be saying to yourself "well I don't go there, how does this affect me?" Well what if it was the venue you do go to, or it affected the gay softball league you play on. What if you're one of the people helped by one of the charities we raise funds for? It does affect you, it affects us all. Many people think that they don't have to react, that others will fight the fight for them. There will always be people who raise their voice for their community, but what's louder? One voice or a thousand? Email city council at mayorandcouncil@vancouver.ca and demand that the Odyssey's lease be extended until an appropriate new venue is secured. Let's let city hall know that Vancouver's gay community IS a community and will react as such. Thank you.
Andrew McMillan, Vancouver BC
04/10/09 11:22 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Lets be realistic
I cannot agree more with Jeff's comment. The Odyssey is a bar. A place where people come to socialize. And as a person who has been supporting the Odyssey for 20 years it has really never given me anything back. It's a business. No more. No less. It's regrettable that it will be closing but so has thousands upon thousands of other businesses both gay and straight. They close for whatever reason. If there really was the BIG GAY support like the Denman area residents had, we probably would have won. But take a look at who was there. Many were just the ones that are extremely frequent patrons of the Odyssey. The younger gay community will spend their dollars wherever. They don't care. Do many of them even live in the Denman Area? Nope. And many of the ones that do live in that area really don't care if the bar moves or closes. They will, once again, go wherever. As a Gay Community, we like to wave our gay flags at the dumbest times. This is one. We did not lose moving because it was a "GAY" bar, we lost because the residents didn't want a "BAR" in their quiet community. There isn't going to be a "STRAIGHT" bar opening there anytime soon either. To the supporters & ralliers, good job for trying, but next time, don't rely on a bunch of children to care. Try changing the thinking of the people who oppose you. Try showing how the moving of the bar would have also added revenue into the pockets of other businesses around, etc. Don't react to people's ignorance...it only creates your own character assasination. Everyone will live. Everyone will find a new job. Everyone will be onto the new big GAY crusade by next week anyhow.
Wes, Vancouver BC
04/10/09 11:28 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
RE: Jeff
Not for thousands it may not make a difference, but for the 40+ people who work there (Of which i am one) It is gonna make a difference for me, i may not be able to find another job in the recession we are going through, and then I will have to move out of my beautiful neighbourhood, which i also truely love. And we have impacted more people then you can imagine, not just in entertainment value, we are a place where people can go when they are first coming out, or when they want to support a gay friend. This place has and will continue to provide something that you will never be able to provide to the gay community, HEART!
Brett, Vancouver BC
04/10/09 11:41 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
RE Brett
maybe if you were a little more smart, you would have secured a decent job 6 or 8 months ago when the cat was let out of the bag that the city was going to give the land that the O is sitting on to an organization to build much need housing for people that are too sick to work and rent a place in the beautiful neighborhood you are currently living in. Stop begin so self-centred and allow this affordable housing to be built for people that are in real need !
Danny, Vancouver B.C.
04/11/09 12:06 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Support The Odyssey continued success!
I think it's pretty clear that both Jeff and Wes have no idea what they are talking about. I think that the Odyssey is one of the most successful night club's in the city of Vancouver, this fact very clear. It also think that though the decision is very regretable I take the council at their word that they also support the club, believe in it's success and continued viability in the community. I think the council will indeed grant the Odyssey an extension on the current lease at 1251 Howe Street. I also hold the council at their word that they will support the club in finding a viable alternative location without I encourage everyone to e-mail the Mayor and Council asking them to grant the lease extension and help keep a thriving business going in the community by assisting the owners to find a new location. E-mail them today at: mayorandcouncil@vancouver.ca Daniel Szabo
Daniel Szabo, Vancouver B.C.
04/11/09 12:28 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Email the City Council
I for one will for sure be emailing the city to ask them NOT to give this bar another extension ! Like Danny wrote in his posting, I also more than believe that the housing promised for that Howe Street location is long over due. I'm ashamed to be a gay person when I read the postings of support on this page when these people make not one mention of that promised housing for the sick and dying amongst us. SELFISH, SELF-CENTRED, people or what ? Shameful.
Keith Jensen, Vancouver bc
04/11/09 1:01 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
The Odyssey is a Major Source of Fundraising
Keith: The Odyssey has done more to help and support those fighting illness over the past twenty-two years than perhaps you are aware. I have been there since the beginning and I continue to witness their generosity time and time again without very much consideration to patting themselves on the back. A DIRECT result of the tireless efforts of staff, management, owners and patrons of the Odyssey is that many who are currently battling illness have gained the much needed resources to continue that fight. This is one of the very major reasons that I am supporting a lease extension and a speedy move to a new location. I am not interested in having that financial contribution dry up nor pause for any reason. I'm sure neither is the City of Vancouver. I am also pretty sure that you would support this idea if you were fully aware of just how much The Odyssey has done and continues to do in this regard.
Daniel Szabo, Vancouver BC
04/11/09 3:16 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
RE: Support The Odyssey continued success!
I think that for you Daniel, the Odyssey is probably the only bar you aren't barred from. Anyone that knows you, knows you are a bit of a "nuisance" to everyone around you. And to Brett, sorry you are losing your job. So have thousands of others during this recession, so you are not alone. And if you haven't been saving your money for any emergency purposes, then you created your own hole. Now sit in it. The Odyssey is NOT a place that people come to in order to "come out" as you say. It may be the first gay bar they visit but by that time, they have already come out. So don't try to make it into some sort of shrine. It's a bar. A privately owned bar. Someone's business. It's not a community owned establishment. If you are so gung-ho to support a business...why not go out and support St Paul's Hospital? Something that truly needs everyone's support. It sucks when we loose "gay" places especially bars but we have all survived. When the Gandy closed, we survived. When Denman Station closed, we survived. When Buddy's closed, we survived. Life goes on. Don't get stuck in the past.
Wes, Vancouver BC
04/11/09 3:26 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
The Odyssey, cont'd...
Nice job on not getting personal Wes, whoever you are! Bottom line is that The Odyssey is a successfully run business and has been for over 22 years. It is also a company that has financially contributed more to the gay community and numerous non-profit organizations, including St. Paul's Hospital. These financially and other types of contributions far exceed anything that either you or I have done in this regard. I do not know you and yet I am more than confident that this is statement is true for both of us. Business in our city are to be encouraged and supported to thrive every chance we get. Not to be encouraged to simply go away and we'll all get over it. It is a very narrow point of view and one that doesn't grow an economy or provide jobs. I think that both the mayor and the city councilors agree on this fact. I also believe they will work to help this successful business remain successful in another location. P.S. - Talking about continueing the Odyssey IS talking about the future I might add. Next!
Daniel Szabo, Vancouver BC
04/11/09 5:50 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
A little extra reporting would have been nice
If the Odyssey hands out pink slips now then they do so by their own choice. The city is bound by the amendment they made to help. If Levy & his staff choose to treat that offer hostilely they can probably expect the same result in the future as the one they got April 9th. When someone offers you help you don't attack them so if Levy and the Odyssey staff keep up the bad attitude they will have no one to blame for their loss of jobs but themselves. Xtra has done a pretty good job of reporting on this...until now. I was at the meeting and Xtra hasn't mentioned the arrogant and childish behaviour of the Odyssey staff and supporters. Over the whole time this discussion has been happening the O has been asked what they would do to work with the neighbours to make sure this would work for them. Would they accept earlier closing for 6 months to ease into the neighbourhood, have a no in/out policy like many other night clubs to avoid loitering noise outside, hire 2 security people to patrol a 2 block radius around the club for 2 hours at closing time just like many other night clubs to avoid neighbourhood noise. They said NO. Councillors pointed out that the Odyssey seemed to want everything their own way but did not want to work with their potential new neighbours to make it work. All they offered was to soundproof the building which was only a tiny part of the problem. Xtra also didn't report about supporters verbally attacking Councillor Woodsworth during the vote or about a gay man who threatened one of the opposed people as she quietly walked out of the meeting. It made me ashamed to be a gay man to hear one of my own community mock one woman doing her job and threaten another woman like that. Gays who think our community should support them when they act like that make me sick! Quit assuming that all gay men think that a night club is more important than our whole community in general. If the O closes it will be their own bad attitude that causes it.
TheTruthiness, Vancouver BC
04/11/09 1:20 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Get over it
I think it's hilarious to hear an employee of the Odyssey suggest that it has anything to do with the future of the gay community in Vancouver. Uh, yeah, that's why the educational requirement for working there is so high, and how all the leaders of tomorrow are so proud to have the Odyssey on their resumes. For crying out loud, it's a gay bar, not UBC. I live in the neighbourhood where the Odyssey is currently situated, and I've seen and heard ecstasy-addled and/or drunk kids stumbling out of there in the early hours of every Sunday morning and barfing in the surrounding streets. I don't pretend that if the Odyssey was closed permanently that all kinds of 22-year-olds would stay home and study for their SATs on Saturday nights, but I can't accept that it has anything much to do with contributing to the community, all things considered. Oh, maybe they make an occasional donation to a charity or have a float in the Pride parade, but I bet that enough drunk boys have unsafe sex or develop drug problems as a result of the O's party scene to make the sum total of their contribution negative, not positive. I'm not surprised that the Denman neighbours didn't want the O in their neighbourhood; I don't want it in mine and I won't be lifting a finger to stop it closing. Go get a job with a future and get over yourself.
C. Brickleigh, Vancouver BC
04/11/09 3:05 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Thanks for your support, you guys, really!
Yeah, it may not be UBC, but the Odyssey has done so much more for the community than you can imagine. They give a SUBSTANTIAL amount to the charities of Vancouver, why do you think the donors showed up to the council meeting? The O is an integral part of the community, it's a second home for a LOT of people. I've been going to the Odyssey for years and have never felt pressured to be something I'm not, it's somewhere I feel safe and that is really the important issue. There is virtually nowhere a gay person can go where they can hold hands with their boyfriend or even play an innocent game of pool! What the hell is our city coming to! I'm sorry you're bothered by all the 22-year-old drunks but you chose to live across the street from the bar that has been there for more than 20 years, honey. Get over YOURSELF. To Truthiness: These people have been fighting tirelessly for the Odyssey for more than a year. Yes, they may have said some things out of anger but they have a right to be angry. It's like you getting kicked out of your house when you had nowhere else to go. To Wes: WHAT is with all the hostility? AGAIN, it may be just a bar to you but this is more like a group of kids being jerked around when mom and dad are getting divorced. People are losing their jobs in the recession, yes, but wow, YOU, sitting on your high horse, chastizing people for staying at a job that they love? Kudos to you. You're a great role model.
HW, Vancouver BC
04/11/09 4:19 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Odyssey
I think a lot of people have known since day 1 that this had far more to do with getting the last gay bar out of the downtown area before 2010 than anything else. BC housing is not going ahead with a building on this site, and it may not start for 4 years according to other reports, yet the city wants it gone next month.
keith, vancouver BC
04/11/09 5:05 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Seriuosly
There is no point fighting about words that may be written out of anger and contempt. The fact is...The Odyssey is closing. Whether is moves or not is to be seen. ENJOY the time you have left. And put your energies where they belong...finding the bar a new home. And I am fairy sure that IE will help out those who can't find work right away since the staff didn't quit or get fired. Just make sure you apply soon. The Odyssey is a building...it's the love inside that is going to prevail. I have faith that it will be this love that will get every one through this. In the meantime...support your other local gay establishments and keep your chins up.
BJ, Vancouver BC
04/11/09 5:27 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Poorly Presented
Having followed this very closely as I am a resident living very close to 911 Denman, I have to say, I was a slightly frightened when it came time for the vote. But honestly, Odyssey's case was very poorly presented by the very people who work for the club. The council went so far as to give Will a chance to prove how sincere they are in addressing the neighborhoods concerns. Had the odyssey embraced the neighborhood and calmed some of their fears, well before the meeting, then those there supporting them would have been well prepared with the correct answers for that question. (No offense to Will, he did speak well, but he was parroting the owners wishes, which were off the mark, and overly confident) If I had known that, for example, the Odyssey was planning on having security guards around the block, keeping people from loitering and such, I would have started to reconsider my position of being against the relocation. But that was never mentioned, anywhere, until the last meeting. I think had they rallied the patrons and younger people who lived in the neighborhood, it would have taken away the opposition's best presenters. Most of the seniors presented very poorly. And the ones that were on point were the very same people I believe could have been convinced otherwise. Sorry to say, I think perhaps its time for a new gay club in Vancouver. If this does become the Odyssey's demise, then it will most definitely make room for a new player. Maybe even one that can convince the residents of Denman that it could have a gay club in the base of the soon to be former Coast Plaza Hotel.
Observant Resident, Vancouver British Columbia
04/11/09 6:41 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Thanks
Thank you for your encouragement, BJ.
HW, Vancouver BC
04/11/09 6:57 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
To HW
after reading your comments one can see that you have no idea what you are going on about...the best comment was "I'm sorry you're bothered by all the 22-year-old drunks but you chose to live across the street from the bar that has been there for more than 20 years, honey. Get over YOURSELF" You say this and then expect people that live in the Denman Street area to want to have "a bar" in their area. Explain that one. And if you really believe that the Odyssey gives a "substantial" amount to charities, you are sadly mistaken. They simply offer a space for others to fundraise. They dont give part of the bar receipts to the fundraisers. They really dont pay for any advertising except the odd poster here and there. And they usually only give the door proceeds for a short period of time. Just ask Ron. Oh wait..he's no longer there. As for being organized, the ones that tried to represent the gay community at the board meetings were a joke. Nothing was organized. It was all about attacking the people we were trying to get on our side. Bottom line is that now is NOT the time to be trying to get all your eggs in one basket - that was last Easter (hahahaha). HW, if you want to try and represent the Gay Community try and do it with respect for everyone and not just the kids (as you say) that live at the Odyssey as their second home.
Wes, Vancouver BC
04/11/09 7:00 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Response to C. Brickleigh
Well I have read your comments. I find them offense on many levels, disrespectful on most and completely uninformed in its entirety. To some how belittle staff and supporters of the Odyssey and suggest that they are uneducated is…well, just mean. The truth is that this is one hard working group of individuals with a variety of backgrounds and different levels of education…University very much included. My family runs a small business. I know the type of hard work and sweat it takes to maintain a successful business. I’ve seen my family do it year after year to ensure success. This type of work ethic is one that is currently shared by the employee’s of the club. There are not many business’ in the community that have been around as long, especially in troubled times. These types of business’ must encouraged to thrive. “Occasional donation to charity/float in the pride parade”….you must be joking. If you think that the Odyssey makes an “occasional donation to charity”, please give me a call directly at 604-721-0255. I will give you names and phone numbers of individuals who suffer greatly from illness AND who benefit from the direct fund raising/support efforts of the Odyssey staff. I think they would very much disagree with the flippantness of your comments. Oh and lastly, I support the Odyssey. No one cares that I have a Masters in International Relations nor should they. I only mention it when I read comments such as yours. So to the staff of the Odyssey, keep it up and congratulations on your continued efforts to remain part of the community. There are way more people rooting for you than not.
Daniel Szabo, Vancouver BC
04/11/09 7:01 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Odyssey = Dinosaur
Odyssey supporters disgrace the REAL gay community. Trying to open a gay bar in front of a school is unacceptable. Kids shouldn't be exposed to the crap that goes on there ....drugs, alcoholism, bad music. And I seriously doubt that the Odyssey contributes much to charity. Gay bars are notorious for using HIV/AIDS fund raising as a self-serving marketing tool. Drag queens, techno, and ecstasy are all OVER. Move into the 21st century you dinosaurs.
ron, vancouver bc
04/11/09 8:28 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
@ HW and Observant Resident
HW, there is never a time when it is OK to attack people as they offer help and there is also never a time when it is OK to threaten someone just because you do not share the same opinion. How on earth can we in the gay community expect people to accept us for exactly who we are and to treat us with respect and dignity if we can't be bothered to offer everyone else that same respect and dignity. Being disappointed is no excuse and both those women deserve an apology if not from their attackers at least from Michael Levy and the Odyssey since it was done in their name. Observant Resident Michael Levy was asked if he would provide security guards for a couple of hours at closing time to patrol the neighbourhood to keep noise complaints down...he said NO. He was asked if he would accept reduced operating hours for 6 months in order to more smoothly integrate into the neighbourhood...he said NO. He was asked to have a no in/out policy just like many other night clubs downtown have to mitigate noise, line ups and not being allowed to have smoking areas and you guessed it...he said NO. With respect to the smoking areas, he flatly stated he would break the no-smoking bylaw. On April 9th Will said the city hadn't told them would not be allowed to rope off a smoking area but I was there when he was told by both Barb Wilson, Chief Licensing Officer and the VPD that no, he would not be allowed to rope off a smoking area at the very first public meetig in February. The Odyssey has approached this arrogantly and with a GIANT sense of entitlement and with no serious intentions to work with the city or its potential new neighbours. If the Odyssey wants to survive I think the first thing they should do is invest in a good PR agency or a community planning consultant who can guide them through this process. The O's continuing approach to this - hostile and angry - is going to continue to backfire on themselves. It reeks of desperation and we all know just how attractive that is.
TheTruthiness, Vancouver BC
04/11/09 8:39 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Does it really matter if the odyssey helped fund m
The Odyssey is first most A NIGHT CLUB, and the best frickin one i have ever been to. I maybe only be 19 but like my fellow friends, and i are scared to go to other menus such as... Number's, Pump jacks, even sometimes celebritys is to much for me. I find there is no place i can go to dance and be with men and woman like me. i do not care alot for Twinky queens with additudes. or scary old beers praying on my ass. I find the Odyssey holds a highly respected Name, It's not just a gay bar(thier a family to the comunnity). They are approachable i know if i go out to the odyssey i will not get druged and raped. They take great care of there clinents which makes continued success in there growth. They have amazing staff, that i know if i get to drunk, they will watch out for me. Kinda like having a bigger brother in a scence. i do find they are distroying a huge part of vancouvers gay culture. The Odyssey has been around for 22 years, thats 22 years of a safe place to party. Theres dreams and memories that are going to be forgotten about. It may not mean anything to the city of vancouver, but to me as a young gay male. This means everything to me, I grew up in a small town. Now gay bars, no gay life, no drag queens fighting over who has the hottest pair of twins. I heard of the odyssey, and all its amazing memories. I could not wait for the day, that i could walk my 19 year old butt into those doors. Which seemed to be like home in a funny way. I new it would have its mother or all queens, and its father type figures with the wallet that never ends. But It's just the way our gay comunnity works, and i for one dont want to forget our #1 gay bar..! I' am not ready to let go, i havn't even tasted it yet, it has happend all so quickly. xoxo to the staff of the Odyssey..!
LEVI PITMAN, vancouver british columbia
04/11/09 9:12 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Cheers Levi
I also was raised in a small town(to be a straight man) and not ready to step foot on davie street. The O has had an effect on so many lives. The staff is second to none! I met my bf of 5 years at the O. Hope it is still there for you too. I also feel passionately about the survival of the O. IT WILL BE A DARK DAY IF IT CLOSES. The sad fact , is that everything has an end. Businesses close, people die (even Jeff). Lets hope the O survives this crisis.
Regular Jeff, Vancouver bc
04/11/09 9:55 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Re: Odyssey Fundraising..
Posted on facebook by Will McGuire, Manager of The Odyssey. Will McGuire at 6:19pm April 11 For clarity: LITERALLY tens of thousands of dollars go into local charities every year from The Odyssey. Last year's DMS treasurer, Mike Murrell, stated to council that the Odyssey's contribution to that organization's various charities exceeded $15000 LAST YEAR ALONE. Past recipients have include Loving Spoonful, The Dr. Peter Center, the BCSPCA, ... Read MoreThe Gay ... Read MoreSeniors' Centre, Friends for Life, Youthco, the McLaren Housing Society, The BC Breast Cancer Foundation. This just scratches the surface. Weekly in house events, annual shows, and special events hosted WITHOUT venue rental charged all contribute directly to our surroundings.
Odyssey Supporter!, Vancouver BC
04/11/09 10:05 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Re: Odyssey Fundraising..
Posted on facebook by Will McGuire, Manager of The Odyssey. Will McGuire at 6:19pm April 11 For clarity: LITERALLY tens of thousands of dollars go into local charities every year from The Odyssey. Last year's DMS treasurer, Mike Murrell, stated to council that the Odyssey's contribution to that organization's various charities exceeded $15000 LAST YEAR ALONE. Past recipients have include Loving Spoonful, The Dr. Peter Center, the BCSPCA, ... Read MoreThe Gay ... Read MoreSeniors' Centre, Friends for Life, Youthco, the McLaren Housing Society, The BC Breast Cancer Foundation. This just scratches the surface. Weekly in house events, annual shows, and special events hosted WITHOUT venue rental charged all contribute directly to our surroundings.
Odyssey Supporter!, Vancouver BC
04/11/09 10:05 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Re: Odyssey Fundraising..
Posted on facebook by Will McGuire, Manager of The Odyssey. Will McGuire at 6:19pm April 11 For clarity: LITERALLY tens of thousands of dollars go into local charities every year from The Odyssey. Last year's DMS treasurer, Mike Murrell, stated to council that the Odyssey's contribution to that organization's various charities exceeded $15000 LAST YEAR ALONE. Past recipients have include Loving Spoonful, The Dr. Peter Center, the BCSPCA, ... Read MoreThe Gay ... Read MoreSeniors' Centre, Friends for Life, Youthco, the McLaren Housing Society, The BC Breast Cancer Foundation. This just scratches the surface. Weekly in house events, annual shows, and special events hosted WITHOUT venue rental charged all contribute directly to our surroundings.
Odyssey Supporter!, Vancouver BC
04/11/09 10:06 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Don't let this devide us !
I live WOD , and to tell u the truth I don't want a night club in my back yard any night club ( Gay or Straight ) My hair aint blue ( nor is my skin ) LOL I'am not Anti- Odyssey , Anti- Location Only ... Read More I'am 100 percent sure , The O will find a new home And if the O , has to temp shut down , Am sure the gay boys and girls will be able to find another club to party in And Fundraisers can be held at other bars ( They already are ) Am sad that ppl could be temp layed off because The O not having a home , Can not blame this on the economy We as a community , must not allow this to devide us ! Everybody is entitled to their opinion
Orphan Gordie, Vancouver BC
04/11/09 10:57 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Odyssey Supporter.........
15,000 donated to charity...big deal. What's their annual income? How much increased income did they get from marketing for an HIV/AIDS fund raiser? And how much of this did they donate. Gay promoters are notorious for latching onto AIDS fund raising, donating a pittance then claiming saint hood. Circuit party organizers are the worst. Fuck them. I alone donated 2500 dollar cash last year to HIV/AIDS causes and you don't see me demanding special treatment from city hall.
ron, Vancouver BC
04/11/09 11:19 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Drugs
The user who made mention of drugs is onto something. I think this is why the VPD has always been, and will continue to be, a thorn in the O's side.
Michael, Vancouver BC
04/12/09 1:13 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
last gay club?
Keith, I have very mixed feelings about the O. On the one hand, I don't want to see a gay institution disappear. On the other hand, the O isn't exactly the greatest influence on gay men, especially young gay men: as other users have mentioned, drugs are a serious problem in this club. However, I don't know if one could say that the city wants to shutter the O in an effort to drive out the last gay club in town before the Olympics roll around. The O's current location isn't very prominent, so whether or not it stays, few visitors to the city would really ever see it, unless they actively sought it out. I had lived downtown for four years before I went to the O and even then had to ask three people where exactly it was! Anyway, hopefully a new location will be found, and hopefully management will take this as an opportunity to make a fresh start and create an environment that is a little more, I dunno, 'wholesome', for gay men.
Eddy, Vancouver BC
04/12/09 1:32 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
drug problem
I hope the O takes this oppertunity clean up its drug image. Keep the regular gogo dancers and let go its 'ACID MONKEYS' pretending to be dancers. Its one thing to be a recreational user/patron - but to put it up on stage as an example???
Regular Jeff, Vancouver BC
04/12/09 2:04 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Knew early, left it late.
40+ employees. Bullshit. What? Its open 24/7? Looked at over 120 potential venues. Bullshit. You failed in your own laziness and now you are seeking blame and building lies. I know of two places available. One on Davie and one on Denman (huge but hidden) but why should I divulge that information for a bunch of whiny kids if they couldn't find it on their own. Also, its sounding more and more like this business that has been around for 20+ years didn't save any profits made and wants to basically walk into a space and take over. Good luck with that. Not to worry though, someone else more on the ball will come along at some point and open up a gay dance club somewhere. Like a gay bar should be the bane of a gay existence anyway. These characters can only blame themselves. Its also sad that many people can seem to get them selves out of that ghetto, yet pretend they are so international. lol
dia, Vancouver BC
04/12/09 9:18 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Where
is Ian going to be "working" now?
Mike T, Van BC
04/12/09 9:21 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
There's no room for biggots in this world
Never have I been more ashamed of my sexuality than after reading some of the comments made on this forum. A number of posts have spoken about the negative image of our community that the odyssey creates, yet this has been done through name-calling, bickering, slander and negative blow after negative blow. Do you want to know what gives our gay community a negative image? It's biggots like yourselves who rather than creating a positive support network for your fellow man, go out of your way help dissolve everything that the generations who have come before us have fought so hard for. Personally I have always found the odyssey to be a place to be accepted, despite your sexuality, age, race or gender. I think it's time our community took a good look at what we've become, and found a unified voice of strength and support, before our clubs, bars, cafes and centres are left to dissolve completly, because there's nothing to say that it won't be your favourite meeting place that is denied relocation next! To end on a positive note, to all those above who have made a positive contribution esspecially supporting the O's fundraising efforts, keep spreading the good word, together we can make the LGBT community of Vancouver the loudest and proudest in the world!
Timothy, Vancouver British Columbia
04/12/09 10:02 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Orphan Gordie is not Anti - Odyssey
Go to the O , whille u still can .. I realy do hope they find a new home soon , I don't drink myself anymore , Yes I know one can just have a soda , when going out to a bar And I do do just that now , I just want to tell u all that , just because I did not support the O relocating to Denman street Does not mean that , Iam Anti- Odyssey , or Anti... - Vancouvers LGBT Community , I sent Will McGuire ( I think thats his name ) an email , stating my position on the matter And Thanking him for all the great work he and his club have done for our community , Well , Do u think he thanked me ? No ! He was rude with me , insulting .. I don't deserve that Ive givin a lot back to my community recently If u watch my YouTube Videos , U will all know this , including Will McGuire of the Odyssey , kindly my friends , Orphan Gordie
Orphan Gordie, Vancouver BC
04/13/09 1:26 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
unsupportive?
I don't think it's fair to say that people are unsupportive of their community or are bigots because they have issues with one particular club. I think the fact that many people are taking the time to write and express their thoughts shows that they care about their community and want what's best for it.
Eddy, Vancouver BC
04/13/09 5:55 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Amen Eddy!
I could not agree with you more. I didn't want a night club in my neighbourhood. I'm being told that I have somehow shamed the gay community and that I should not be allowed to go to ANY gay clubs (not just the O) because there are so few gay bars left that there is not room for people like me who did not support the O. Makes me a bit ashamed to be a gay man to see people pull the "gay card" like this.
TheTruthiness, Vancouver BC
04/13/09 12:12 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Comments on youtube
I found these very interesting and true. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT5kRdY7y48 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnX4kWTxI8s&feature=related
keith, Vancouver BC
04/13/09 2:23 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Final Thoughts...
People are pulling the 'gay' card because it is a 'gay' establishment we are supporting. I for one am not ashamed to either a. be gay or b. speak out in support of gay establishments and the importance of finding ways to help them flourish. I also am not ashamed when anybody voices an opinion that is different from mine gay/straight or whatever... There really is nothing more to say on this subject. Go for it Odyssey and here's to having all this anger, rudeness and divisiveness die down a bit here folks...
Rick Sinclair, Vancouver BC
04/13/09 3:10 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Happy Easter!
Well this has been a lively conversation. I like it. Happy Easter everybody!
Daniel Szabo, Vancouver BC
04/13/09 3:13 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Don't worrie Baby ! It will be alright
Council is on the Odysseys side here , That includes Ellen Woodsworth and George Chow , Odyssey will get their lease extention , and Vancouver City Council will assist the O in finding a new home , sounds like a done deal to me , Whats all the fuss my friends ? In life , we loose some and we win many ! Thats life my friends ! I will email Gregor and council expressing my wish that The Odysseys lease be extended and Thanks them for all their support to our community , Its not City Council that rejected the Odysseys application to move to 911 Denman , It's the local area residents who made that choice , And it was , from all that I have read and heard a very fair process , I wish the very best for the Odyssey and our LGBT Community , Group HUG everyone ? I do meen everyone my friends . YouTubes Orphan Gordie ...
Orphan Gordie, Vancouver BC
04/13/09 4:38 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Got a life?
There must be a lot of people out there with very small and limited lives. Its a bar people, yes I've been to it and have had fun but it doesn't make my life. Its been a very small part of it. Get out there and get a life. If the owners couldn't get it together, what help would you be? lol
KM, Vancouver British Columbia
04/14/09 12:01 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
The use of drugs?
((( I hope the O takes this oppertunity clean up its drug image. Keep the regular gogo dancers and let go its 'ACID MONKEYS' pretending to be dancers. ))) You cannot expect The Odyssey to clean up the drug use, it is a unfair statment. celebs, pump jacks, and numbers has by far more of an issuse with drugs use then the Odyssey. We have to remember we are adults, the Odyssey is not there to hold our hands. it is a Night Club, and will stay being just a night club. as for the "Acid monkeys" i would rather see a selection of men, a multicultural diverse group. instead of the blonde muscle jocks, we have to remember The Odyssey Is a TWINKY bar. The Odyssey lets these 'ACID MONKEYS' dance because they are fresh meat. The Pick of The new area's crop...!
Levi pitman, vandcouver British columbia
04/14/09 12:32 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Perspective
The Odyssey could have bought this space many times over (think being there for 20 years)- so don't cry me a river about being kicked out. Your owner of the property you rent - the City - just to put this in perspective - has required the Odyssey to move as much needed housing for those living with HIV/AIDS is being built there. There is a homelessness crisis and many folks on the street are living with HIV/AIDS. The Odyssey have known they need to move for a year. I'm sorry that they didn't choose the right location to try to re-locate - but so be it. Don't try to turn this into an anti-gay thing. It ain't and disrespects all of the community organizing we've had to do for so many years to stand up for our rights. Choose your battles. Gays were opposed to this location - and that don't make them less gay. The Odyssey has been offered a chance to work with community to find the right location. Indignation, and personal attacks on those who are different, or see things differently aren't the way forward. Rather than ramping up the anger let's ramp up the community co-operation, and find the Odyssey a new home.
jonny, Vancouver BC
04/14/09 12:52 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Save the Odyssey
I can't believe some of the comments I'm reading here. I thought it was bad when anti Odyssey types said it was inappropriate to have a gay club across from a school. This is homophobic and shows we have way more education to do. It also appears we have way more education to do in our own community. For those in our community talking about drugs in clubs what do you think alcohol is? All Clubs sell it you know. Some people use it responsibly, others don't. For those that don't you can't blame the Club, in fact, club staff are trained properly so as not to overserve patrons. This issue really is about the Odyssey being treated unfairly by the City and this needs to be redressed. For those posting on this message board blaming the Odyssey for their eviction is really distorted thinking. Like how much did the Odyssey pay in property taxes over its nearly 25 year history? How much have they paid in business license fees over this same period of time? I can assure you it was not small change. And what about the provincial sales tax on their liquor purchasing? These taxes go to assist many of the social programs in the province and why anyone would think it is OK for 50 employees to lose their jobs in the worst recession this Country has seen must be without feeling. Gay clubs are sacred spaces and to me it should have been a no-brainer for Council to have supported the re-location. This Club while it has made good money over the years has also contributed significantly to the betterment of our City and we should be proud of this accomplishment. If you choose to live in the highest density neighborhood in the City, you must expect some noise. The City should be ashamed because they knew what they were doing when they invited residents to voice their thoughts on the Odyssey re-location. They actually set the Odyssey and our community up for this conflict and now it is up to us to demand that they undo this mess that they created.
Jamie Lee, Vancouver BC
04/14/09 4:09 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Response to KM:
The people that work at the Odyssey mean a great deal to me and too many. It's funny that you think this is a small thing. I'll keep supporting them if that's ok with you...and loudly too btw..."lol"
Daniel Szabo, Vancouver BC
04/14/09 10:55 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Knew you once Daniel
Daniel. We've all heard your bickering on this subject and many, then you wonder why no one pays attention. And how come life is the struggle you are making it. Its people like you that are actually bringing the place down. lol You are no PR person thats for sure.
YourOldBuddyDaniel, Vancouver BC
04/14/09 10:30 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
REALLY?
Geezus Mary - get over your yourselves already! it's only a gay bar. There have been many, many of them close before in Vancouver - Royal, Gandy, Buddy's, John Barleys, Pats, Milk, Denman, Majestic and on and on. I don't recall riots in the streets when they closed. There have also been many open over the years. I know we all feel a heartfelt connection to safe spaces but they are only business. They are not people. Those are the things we step over on Davie, pretending not to see. I don't see our community tearing our hearts out over a devastating issue that involves human beings in desperate need. If there is a market, they will build it. Saavy businesspeople know where there is a buck to be made. The good people who worked at, and patronized (myself included) will move on. It will be ok. I promise. AFtre all, The O was a dump. Levy milked that thing for all it was worth for 2 plus decades. The room was ugly, the carpets were vile. The bathrooms nasty. Look at the way the owners of the Oasis and Majestic have reinvested in improving their business. Did you ever see that at the O? It is the kind of place one would pick up a staff infection. Surviving 25 years in the hospitality business? They were bloody lucky. That was a damn good run. Not many bars or restaurants last half that long. I say good riddance. We shall survive.
Mike Dean, Vancouver BC
04/15/09 2:20 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Reality Check
Being a past employee of the Odyssey I can tell you the drug issues at the bar are out of control. The club facilitates specific drug dealers to provide for their patrons. If you are not one of the house dealers and are caught your banned for life. Will McGuire stated the Odyssey is a responsible run business which is a joke. I have watched the doormen dump kids that are to drunk or to high to look after themselves in to the alley and leave them there. (out of sight out of mind) As well throughout the night you can watch the responsible business's bartenders drinking on the job along with their support staff if not running off to the alley to smoke a joint of stick some blow up their nose. Doormen have no official training and rarely have any real experience. So in closing the Odyssey is not this gleaming beacon within the gay community like some may think. It is a business that promotes extreme drug use, drunk bartenders and untrained doormen.
Joe, Vancouver BC
04/15/09 2:45 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Straight Businessmen own the Odyssey
Perhaps Blair, Will, Jeff, Daniel, Joan-E maybe Levi would like to fill us in on who owns the Odyssey and what the business plan has been for the Bar? Well the bar is owned by Billy, Peter, and Michael, all of whom are straight. In fairness though, Michael inherited his gay brothers investment in the club when he died a few years back. So this Icon of the gay community is owned by straight businessmen. Unlike Numbers, Fountainhead, Pulse, Pumpjack, 1181. And since everyone here has been so quick to play the gay card towards City Council and against some of us in the community, it IS now relevant if we're to believe homophobia is in play. It was no secret this land was designated for affordable housing. When the Sales Centre for the Alto was telling clients that the O would not be a going concern, Ron the manager at the time was quoted in Xtra West as saying The O isn't going anywhere. Wouldn't that have been considered writing on the wall well over 2yrs ago? Regardless the lease was until what, 2010, 2011? What were the owners of the club doing to be proactive towards that date? What was the 5 year plan for the business to protect the jobs of 40+ people and to ensure a cultural icon was being protected? Answer, nothing, they put their head in the sand and ignored the writing on the wall. Peter, his family owns Allarco Entertainment Inc. otherwise known as Movie Central/Movie Network. I'm guessing they could afford to have bought this location years ago, or any other piece of real estate in Vancouver should he be committed to serving the Gay community, but hasn't. As a city owned property the rent has been well below market value for years. Billy, Peter, Michael have been lining their straight pockets from your gay dollars with very little investment back in to the business. Not unlike driving a really crappy car until it breaks down because it is not worth fixing. This is about money and making money, don't fool yourselves otherwise.
Scott, Vancouver BC
04/15/09 4:31 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
...and while I'm at it.
So Michael Levy would lead us to believe that they looked at over 120 locations. Really? When Councilor Anton asked Michael to name the 4 alternate locations that were being considered he dodged the question, and did not name any. They did look at the old Tony Roma's location at Howe & Pacific, also the Wildlife Society at Drake and Granville both of which are close to the current location and likely to have been approved without question. Perhaps Will would like to tell us why they walked away from those? Was it because it would cost Market Value? Or because the owners were deeply concerned about the patrons safety? The Drake street location could easily have entrances that wouldn't be on Granville. If Michael is so concerned about the "war zone" on Granville affecting patrons safety perhaps he would answer this question. With the current location being only a block from Granville why is there often only one doorman working the front door, and nobody positioned on the street? Why is there no surveillance cameras in the current location? Well at least ones that work. I guess that's why they employed that scrappy Doorman married to the Bartender for so long who eventually got fired for assaulting a patron. What about the old Jupiter, or the Denman Theatre locations why didn't those work out? The sad reality is there has never been a proper business plan in place by the owners other than to wring as much money out of their investment as possible. The prevailing arguement was akin to "get over it residents you life downtown so have to put up with it". Now the entire community is expected to pick up our pitch-forks and torches to storm city hall in light of their decision. As one of the Councilors pointed out this request was being made at literally the 11th hour. Peter is a Lawyer, retired, and I would think have at least a passing understanding of due processing. Perhaps something better than an 11th hour plan would've been
Scott, Vancouver BC
04/15/09 5:16 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
thank you Mike Dean, Joe and Scott!
It's refreshing to see some people cut through the BS and tell the truth about this place. It is just a bar. It is just a business. And not even gay-owned.
TheTruthiness, Vancouver BC
04/15/09 11:34 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Re: Straight Businessmen own the Odyssey
Well Michael is straight and is the main owner that runs the daily operations but Billy and Peter are both gay.
Joe, Vancouver BC
04/15/09 11:47 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Who Cares if Gay Bars Have Straight Owners
Wow all this talk about who owns the Odyssey. Does it really matter if an owner(s) is straight or gay? A number of our watering holes that are/were straight-owned include: Celebrities is straight owned. The Royal and Castle Pubs were both straight-owned. Neighbours on Robson was straight-owned. The Oasis is straight-owned. The Dufferin was straight-owned. The Lotus Hotel is straight-owned but c'mon folks all these places have had longstanding committments to our communities and moreover, supported so many of our causes over the years. If this is the best that someone can come up with as to why we should not be supporting the unfair treatment of the Odyssey, seems pretty shallow to me.
JamieLee, Vancouver BC
04/15/09 8:03 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
responsibility? please.
JamieLee: "For those in our community talking about drugs in clubs what do you think alcohol is? All Clubs sell it you know. Some people use it responsibly, others don't." We're not talking about alcohol (though that's a problem too). We're talking about illegal drugs. Establishments that put out the welcome mat for drug dealers are hardly responsible members of the gay community. Levi: "You cannot expect The Odyssey to clean up the drug use, it is a unfair statment. celebs, pump jacks, and numbers has by far more of an issuse with drugs use then the Odyssey." This makes it ok?
Eddy, Vancouver BC
04/15/09 9:24 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
repost...
That last message did not come out right, so let me re-write it. JamieLee, we're not talking about alcohol (though that's a problem too). We're talking about illegal drugs. Establishments that put out the welcome mat for drug dealers are hardly responsible members of the gay community. And Levi, just because drug problems are rampant in other clubs doesn't mean that any individual establishment shouldn't do the right thing and reign in its own drug problems. Besides, The O is the worst offender among all of them; that's why the VPD has been on its case for years.
Eddy, Vancouver BC
04/15/09 9:33 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Someone please tell me
Where will Ian be working out of now? That's the only reason I go to the O anyways.
Mike T, Vancouver BC
04/15/09 10:38 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
LOL
Jamie Lee...really? You're not exactly the most reliable source of information around. Or of anything else for that matter. Your reputation was cemented decades ago. If you love joints like this so much, why don't you go open one. Oh yeah, you've attempted that shit already. lol
TheRealEastsideDiva, EastEnd BC
04/15/09 10:52 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Join our Facebook Group to save Odyssey
It's clear that Vancouver's gays want to save the Odyssey. We can do that by banding together. Xtra.ca has created a special section dedicated to educating people about why we need the Odyssey, why city hall needs to understand the importance of dance bars to gay culture. Check it out: http://www.xtra.ca/public/Vancouver/Find_a_Home_for_the_Odyssey-7/activisthome.aspx. And we've also created a Facebook page, Find a Home for the Odyssey, at: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=182724980252 Take a look. Tell your friends. Only you can make this happen.
Xtra.ca Editor, Vancouver BC
04/15/09 11:14 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
oh my!
You are kidding right? XtraWest? This O, a business establishment can't take care of its own business so now the public is expected to help? Um, aren't there more pressing issues in the community? Its a gay bar, if even. Things change in life, move on, get over it. GROW. Appreciate what it was, someone more resourceful will build another one. Is this why XtraWest's paper is becoming thinner and thinner. No longer of content?
Jules L., Vancouver BC
04/15/09 11:46 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Negitivity
Let's forget what bar it is, one less means that last years 1 hour wait to get into a bar at Gay Pride will now be 2 or 3, and 2011 for the Gay games maybe 4 or 5. Truth is we can't afford to loose any.
James, Vancouver BC
04/15/09 11:57 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Re: Negativity
Ya cause it's all about how long we have to stand in line during gay pride. As we all know thats what gay pride is about getting s**t faced and high at the Odyssey.
Joe, Vancouver BC
04/16/09 12:09 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
same old same old
oh dear. wait to get into a gay bar to see the same people you'd see any other day of the week. how will one go on? after all gay life is and only about gay bars. not.
DoneDeal, Vancouver British Columbia
04/16/09 12:37 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
I'm Shocked !
So with Xtra setting up a Facebook Odyssey support page are they saying that housing for the sick & dying isn't as important as partying at the bar on a Saturday ? This makes me sick to my stomach ! I'm sure what I'm about to type will get my post removed, but here goes. I guess advertising money is also more important than housing for the sick & dying.
JT, Vancouver B.C.
04/16/09 12:39 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
My apologies to Billy ans Peter, you are Gay
JamieLee you missed the point entirely. I raised it to address the accusation of Homophobia that has been levied at City Council. If there are straight owners why is the Homophobe card getting played so quickly. My apologies to Billy and Peter for suggesting they were straight, thank you Joe for the correction, my bad. The reality is this is not a gay issue. The neighbourhood doesn't want ANY nightclubs operating on Denman St, it is a completely inappropriate location. Now perhaps JamieLee you can articulate more clearly to myself, and others. Explain it to me like I'm 2, what was unfair about this process? Are you suggesting that City Hall just did this one off the cuff? Was the Odyssey treated somehow differently during their process than other businesses in the city requesting a decision from City Hall? Try spending an afternoon there some day, I've had to attend many of these meetings. whether it is a liquor application, rezoning for property development, development permits, altering licenses the process is the same for everyone. The Onus lay on the Odyssey to make their case on why their application should be approved. They did not. As I sat and watch the impassioned residents speak out against the application most were eloquent, respectful and thoughtful. By contrast those speaking on behalf of the Odyssey were often arrogant, condescending, combative, and full of gay attitude - Snap to that girlfriend. Complain all you want, but when you do not respect people or their point of view a funny thing happens they don't respect you back. Shrieking "Shame" at the Council after the decision was a disgusting action and poor representation of the gay community. Council graciously extended an olive branch which likely wouldn't have been done for a straight bar. If the Odyssey has any hope of survival, then drop the attitude and work with City Hall. If they expect to dictate the terms and conditions of a move, The O will fail and only have them
Scott, Vancouver BC
04/16/09 1:07 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Arrogant?
In fairness to the people supporting the Odyssey, it didn't seem to me as though anyone was arrogant or combative during their presentation.
Eddy, Vancouver BC
04/16/09 5:34 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Odyssey Treated Differently - Why?
Scott to answer your question that the Odyssey was treated unfairly, I draw your attention to three years ago when City Council unanimously approved a 150 seat Club in the 800 block Denman. Granted three years ago it was a different council but 6 of those Councillors who voted to approve the 800 block Denman Street Club are still on Council. They are Councillors Chow, Stevenson, Cadman, Louie, Deal and Anton and all of them with the exception of Councillor Suzanne Anton rejected the Odyssey's application.
JamieLee, Vancouver BC
04/16/09 5:56 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
@ Scott, Eddy & Jamie Lee
Scott, gracious of you to admit you were wrong. I for one appreciate that. You are right, most of the opposed speakers were respectful and not hostile, but there were a few opposed people who did not speak well but we're talking about 3 or 4 out of about 25. Eddy, please watch the video archive of both meetings - March 26 & April 9. It started out on the 26th with Levy getting combative, then claiming that the meeting coordinator lied to him, and then claiming that the city owed him special treatment during their normal process because he was the applicant (not sure why he thought that made him different from all other applicants) and because the city was their landlord. That tone continued with many, but not all supportive speakers. Jamie Lee the application you are referring to was not the same. There are several different types of liquor licences and while the old Denman Station did have a Class 3 license (like the Odyssey's) the application for development described a much different venue than what the Odyssey was requesting (smaller size, shorter hours, etc.). The owners of the Fountainhead have since relocated that liquor license to Davie St. and there is no longer a pre-existing liquor license at the old Denman Station (that location is beyond repair due to water damage at this point anyway). When kids don't get their way one of the first things they claim is that things were somehow "unfair". The process the Odyssey and the neighbours on Denman Street have just been through has been well documented and was thorough, fair and treated them just like any relocation applicant. Isn't that what we want? To be treated just like anyone else? To have the same right and same respect? Why on Earth would you or anyone else now want to claim that we should be treated differently and not be held to the same kinds of community processes as anyone else? We can't fight for equal rights on some issues while demanding special treatment on others.
TheTruthiness, Vancouver BC
04/16/09 11:55 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Using the system
Now if Jamie Lee would only put as much effort into finding a job and her own place to live as she is capable of doing but refuses too....
KooKOO, laka dsos
04/16/09 12:33 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Fire Regulations Sets Number of Seats
Hi Truthiness In regard to your statement that Council voted three years ago on something different than what is now before them, I dis-agree. The Odyssey license is the same type of license which was granted 3 years ago to the former Denman Station location which by the way liquor licenses are granted by Provincial Liquor License regulations and not the City. The City only issues the business license. In terms of capacity and regarding the Odyssey in the proposed location that capacity is determined by fire regulations. So if Fire says the capacity is 250 that is what the provincial regulations will grant. Fire allowed 150 capacity at the old Denman Station and that is what was granted three years ago. Back to the noise issue which is probably the only justifiable issue the Anti Odyssey crowd has. Just because a Club has more seating does not determine noise levels. Various other factors come into play such as soundproofing and good crowd control. Moreover, I suggest that with a good operator a Club with 250 seats can generate less noise than a Club with a bad operator who has capacity of 150 seats. So that being said, was the Odyssey treated differently and I say yes and that is the unfair part.
JamieLee, Vancouver BC
04/16/09 3:11 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Prove it.
I wanna see proof that they have 40 employees. I wanna see proof that they looked at 120 various locations.
You Again, Vancouver BC
04/16/09 4:48 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Do Your Homework Jamie Lee
The application that was approved in 2006 was for 149 seats, was for a Class 2 (not a Class 3) liquor license, and for a 1AM closing (not 3AM). To quote the application, "The applicant has indicated that they do not intend to operate at the maximum permissible hours of operation for the area." Those are pretty big differences. And there were people opposed to the application but not many people responded to the city's notification either for or against. Why? Because the city does a bad job of notifying people. In the Odyssey's case neighbours both for and against got the word out by copying and spreading the city's own notification flyer urging people to participate no matter whether they supported or opposed it. That's the kind of neighbourhood this has turned into over the years. One were people respect each others differences but get involved one way or the other because they care about their community. Why am I harping on about this? Because it is people like you Jamie Lee who are trying to create a big problem in a neighbourhood where no problem exists. You can't be bothered to check your facts and you're making accusations that we members of the LGBT are failing our own community and that our friends, neighbours and family members are homophobic because they don't want ANY night club next to their homes. This was never about a "gay bar" it was about a "bar" and you are insulting and ignorant of the facts (not just opinions, but facts) to keep trying to say otherwise.The process was fair. The community - regardless of sexual orientation - was heard. Since you can't be bothered to actually look into the facts, here is the link to the application made by Howard Murray Investments Ltd. for the old Denman Station http://vancouver.ca:8765/cs.html?charset=iso-8859-1&url=http%3A//vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/20060202/documents/cs3.pdf&qt=860+Denman+Street&col=all+hostcity&n=2&la=en
TheTruthiness, Vancouver BC
04/16/09 4:57 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
So it's Twink territory now is it? LOL
I've been going to the Odyssey for 21yrs, and before that when the space was Heaven, used to sneak in to Paradise before that when I was underage. Surely I've spent enough money across the bar to have paid their monthly rent a few times over. When I was your age Levi we went to a place called the Gandy Dancer, where Bar None is now. Despite a poorly executed renovation the final nail in the coffin for The Gandy was when The O opened. No longer did we have to venture so far to the foot of Davie. We now were closer to Dids Pizza, the old bath house on Hornby that burned down, and we could run up the street to Celebrities if things got boring. Didn't have to fight for a taxi when it was pouring rain. Seems to me moving to Denman are the same conditions, isolated from amenities. Gay men are fickle, and Twinks even moreso. A move to Denman would've been a long slow and painful death for this club. The crowd would've shifted after a few nights waiting in the rain for taxicabs that aren't coming. I agree with whomever said it in this Blog, this move was a completely half-baked idea.
Greg, Vancouver BC
04/16/09 7:28 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
still...
Hi Truthiness, I did watch both long, tedious videos --- twice, in fact. Yes, the supporters were a bit...impassioned...but I don't think they were overtly rude or anything like that. If they did seem a bit testy and annoyed, I think it's somewhat understandable because they perceived (correctly or not) that everyone was ganging up on them. I think anyone in a minority position would feel that way. Then again, I tend to be a bit irreverent myself, so perhaps I have a higher threshold for these things :)
Eddy, Vancouver BC
04/16/09 7:57 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
@Greg
Greg, I couldn't help but chuckle when you wrote that "this move was a completely half-baked idea" :)
Eddy, Vancouver BC
04/16/09 8:00 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Hi
Scott and Greg, miss you boys !
Marc, Vancouver BC
04/16/09 8:10 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Post-meeting comments
By the way, since I couldn't attend either of these Council meetings in person, can someone tell me (without embellishing) about the nature of the comments that came from Odyssey supporters after the meetings? Someone alluded to insults being made against Ellen Woodsworth after the final vote... What was the nature of these comments? I couldn't tell from watching the videos.
Eddy, Vancouver BC
04/16/09 8:40 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Something for the Twinks to think about
It saddens me when I see Homophobic statements within our own community. This might be off-topic but I’ll venture there anyhow. Ironic Levi that you have distaste in the same breath for Twink Queens with attitude, and scary old Beers praying on your ass. Presumably you meant Bears preying, unless your ass is so fine it becomes a religious experience! (Hint, you yourself become a Queen with Attitude when you deliberately deride the Bears). How can you put forth this logic and expect the rest of the very diverse gay community to support your cause? Then wonder why so many of us could not care less about the survival of your playground. Let me tell you about some of these scary old men and Bears. They’ve been gay longer than you, and on Davie St when your parents were still in Grade school. They lived through bars closing, Buddies, Neighbours, The Shaggy Horse, Milk, Gandy, etc, etc too many to mention. You might try setting foot on Davie some day. Go to Numbers or Pumpjack and striking up a conversation with one of these men. While you're fighting for a place to dance these men fought for all the gay rights you so complacently enjoy. Back when coming out of the closet meant being disowned by your entire family. Homosexuality was considered a treatable mental illness in the 70’s. Back when you could get fired from your job, kicked out of your apartment with no legal recourse, Gay Marriage was considered something unattainable. They lived through the AIDS Crisis of the 80’s while they buried friend after friend until their address book was empty, and Government largely looked the other way because it was a Gay disease. They were Stonewall, Act Up, and invented We’re Here, We’re Queer Get Used To IT. They got angry and marched when Pride Parades were about securing rights. Fought tenaciously for themselves and everyone to come after which includes you and the rest of the Twinks with Attitude shaking their lycra covered asses on Parade floats. The circumstance of the Od
Greg, Vancouver BC
04/16/09 8:42 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
..more for the Twinks
The circumstance of the Odyssey having to move is unfortunate but as pointed out on this Blog by others, largely their own fault for not having a proper business plan in place. McLaren House is going up in its place to provide direly needed housing and HIV outreach services to some of those very same men who are the last ones left in the address book. Not to mention, eventually, so many of your generation with the highest infection rates seen in decades. So forgive me, and anyone else in the community who is focused on the bigger picture. Some advice Levi when you eventually set foot to Davie, and the rest of the Twinks with attitude prancing down Davie, when you walk past Numbers or Pumpjack and are overcome with the urge to sneer at these establishments or the patrons within I want you to stop. Stop and think about who is really in there and the contributions they have made to this community. Then go inside, find one of these scary old men, buy him a beer and say, Thank you. You don’t have to have sex unless that’s your thing, but I can guarantee one thing you may actually learn something. When you leave ask yourself this question, what will be my legacy? What will I have done to make this community a better while I’m part of it and once I’m gone.
Still Greg, Vancouver BC
04/16/09 8:46 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Good comments
Good comments, Greg. We often forget about the people who have shaped the community and fought for gay rights. Although in fairness to Levi (and because I'm obviously in a gracious mood this evening), he's only 19. Adolescence and an appreciation for history don't really mix, as I'm sure we all remember. But it's good to have a history lesson from time-to-time, so thank you for that.
Eddy, Vancouver BC
04/16/09 9:02 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
re: Post-meeting comments
During the last few votes many of the supporters shouted out various things as they realized they were being denied. Mostly things like "No!" and "C'Mon!" Until Councillor Woodsworth voted and started to speak to explain her position, she was basically shouted down. Joan-E shouted "Shame! Shame!" and I think called her a traitor to her community and said something like "You of all people? Shameful!" Then as everyone was leaving out in the lobby one of the supporters got up in the face of one of the women opposed (she was quietly walking out, not even smiling or cheering or anything like that) and threatened her with "I hope you're happy. We know who you are and what you've done and we're not going to forget it!" All while shaking his finger and his fist right in her face. I was just in front of her and couldn't see who it was who said this (he was standing with Levy, Will and Blair Smith) but I could see her face and she looked scared. The guy she was with was pissed right off and shouted back at him "Don't worry I won't forget you either!" The whole thing with the yelling in council chambers and again at the women walking out was completely obnoxious. Both of those women deserve an apology. Some people have tried to excuse it as heat of the moment kind of stuff but there is just no excuse for it in my opinion.
TheTruthiness, Vancouver BC
04/16/09 10:59 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Threats
It certainly wouldn't be the first time that people affiliated with the Odyssey have threatened others. Do you recall which supporter in particular was threatened? You don't have to mention names, but did it happen to be one of the first speakers from the 26th?
Eddy, Vancouver BC
04/16/09 11:12 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
re: threats
Ooops... I meant which -opponent- was threatened...
Eddy, Vancouver BC
04/16/09 11:13 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
correction
One more correction... I meant to say 'supporters of the Odyssey' instead of 'people affiliated with the Odyssey'.
Eddy, Vancouver BC
04/17/09 12:11 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Trivial Attacks
I just can't believe this nonsense. Talk about trivial attacks on those you dis-agree with. So what if Joan-E was emotional. We are talking about someone's job and livelihood here. She has done so much for this community especially for Friends for Life, Art for Life, Bingo for Life, Starry Night and so many other charities. And you Truthiness have real gall to put her down. Quite easy isn't it when you hide behind some anonymous screen handle. Real brave of you indeed. I respect others for having their opinions and putting them forward respectfully but I am witnessing on this message board how those opposing the Odyssey continue to smear people in a real personal way. It kinda actually disgusts me. Make no mistake this battle will be one won or lost on facts. Just because Council turned down this application doesn't mean the court of public opinion has. In fact at the end of the day, reason will triumph emotion and history will prove the Odyssey is being treated unfairly. For those in our community who are supporting the Odyssey and are being mistreated in a manner which is vile and disgusting. Who needs enemies when you have friends like these.
JamieLee, Vancouver BC
04/17/09 12:59 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
re: threats & trivial attacks
Eddy it was the woman who spoke right after Levy on the 26th. She was there again on the 9th. Jamie Lee pay closer attention to detail, Eddy had asked what was said and I told him. No one is attacking Joan-E. I repeated facts and gave my personal opinion that I think it was not OK to be saying those things. Why am I using an "anonymous screen handle"? Because the supporters have been brutal to anyone in the LGBT community who has disagreed with them. Going so far as to tell us we have no right to go to any gay bar or events because we will be taking away the seats of people who support the Odyssey and that we're traitors to our community so we don't deserve to be at any of the bars. Joan-E wrote that on her blog. Go read it. You yourself have been spreading hateful and hurtful comments about this situation. Where were you prior to the meeting on April 9th? Why weren't you actively involved with supporting the Odyssey in this relocation until after the decision was made? Why are you now commenting about things you know nothing about without even bothering to check out the truth about any of it? Why are you so focused on the O being denied their relocation instead of focusing on helping them find a better solution - one that works for everyone in the LGBT community not just for the Odyssey? The Odyssey has been treated fairly and if anything has been given some extra help that no other business in the same situation would get. I do, however, agree with you on one thing Jamie Lee - the personal attacks are not OK. But, repeating what was publicly said at the April 9th meeting is not attacking someone. I certainly am within my right to have an opinion on what was said in my presence and was being said to represent the entire LGBT community which it clearly did not and does not.
TheTruthiness, Vancouver BC
04/17/09 1:52 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Hmm...
Thats it JamieLee. Keep shielding the truth from yourself like you have for all these years. If thats what comforts you... Ok, so the O was great. But it appears to have had its day. It may now be a part of Vancouver's gay history. People miss the old establishments..or not, but they were there. Life goes on, things change and I think because its not the change people wanted, its upsetting for some. But quite possibly another place will open up, who knows when or where. Gay, straight, whatever. All sorts of people have had good and bad times there like any establishment. In this case, it seems to come down to the owner(s) and the responsibilities that come with finding a new location, expecting and pre-planning for hurdles, after all this is Vancouver. What scares me is how they are trying to get the community to rally around them, how they are going about it. I'm starting to think this is all financial for them in many ways too, not enough backing, so not enough start up for a new place and its requirements that will be needed. Maybe they just weren't the business people they or others thought they were and nothing was set aside. Maybe you weren't given all the answers. If it has such a following, why does it 'have' to be in the Westend? Many gay businesses in other cities aren't all in a ghetto like cluster. And don't give me that safety b.s. either, many people go to dance clubs as a group, and the rest you have to watch yourself in any city you are in. I worry that this is going to split the community in many ways, but we can all learn from that. I think though we will find other entertainment activities to help make this a Fun City. Things shift and adjust. Sometimes they have too. Its those changes that make life interesting.
CL, Vancouver BC
04/17/09 2:02 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Really!?
Joan - E has a blog? LOL!
These Self Appointed Queens, Vancouver - Westend British Columbia
04/17/09 2:05 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Luck
The primacy effect rears its ugly head again. Had someone else spoken in her place, THAT person would've been the brunt of attacks. Levy might've done better to speak a little later, too. Too bad there's not much choice when it comes to speaking order.
Eddy, Vancouver BC
04/17/09 2:27 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Real emotions, real names?
As one of the few people on this and other blogs using my real name, please allow me a moment. First of all, I do not recall anyone at City Hall being threatened. Maybe it happened, but I was not a witness. However, the day of the "quiet" protest at 911 Denman, a woman climbed to the stairs to come in and scream at the handfull of us that we were EVIL for opening up across from the school. At the first invitational night upstairs, I acted as doorman near the rear. I witnessed huge homophobia and hysteria. They were passing out photocopies of the Angel mural and discussing how disgusting this was across from the school. One of the NO group was wise enough to shut them up, and keep them off camera. (90%+ of the NO campaign are not homophobes or evil) But there was a definite faction that stirred up the hysteria. Neighbours were frightened into thinking their streets would be filled with Harleys and gunfire resulting in "bodies under tarps" on their streets. For those of the NO camp that played into those fears, I do say SHAME on you for frightening elderly people into fearing for their lives. Nightly TV news certainly suggests that nightclubs = gangs and murders, but The Odyssey is a wee bit different. What started out as a business application with merit, has ended up with many people using this as an excuse to defame others and show the ugly side of human nature. Having been the manger of Buddy's in the early 80's, I can personally attest to the generous nature of these owners with respect to the greater gay community. They have never boasted about financial contributions that championed causes, started AIDS charities, or agve a helping hand up to those who needed it. Please dial down the rhetoric and put some of that energy into something that really matters. a) help the "O" find a new home, b) volunteer for the vast number of charities, c) campaign for your b
Blair Smith, Vancouver BC
04/17/09 2:28 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
continued
Please dial down the rhetoric and put some of that energy into something that really matters. a) help the Odyssey find a new home, b) volunteer for the vast number of charities, c) campaign for your best candidate in the upcoming election, d) give someone less fortunate a smile or a hand up. We can ALL be better than this.
Blair Smith, Vancouver BC
04/17/09 2:33 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
her name is Adele
If an apology is necessary to Adele, the 2nd speaker on the 26th, then I would like to offer that apology on behalf of the Odyssey's group. During this last few months, Adele, Will and I have engaged in respectful dialogue on several blogs, and in person at the invitational and public forums. I believe Adele would concur. She worked hard for her NO campaign, but never showed any animosity, and neither did we. Adele, I wish we had met before the heat got turned up on this. And I am am certain that when we cross paths it will be amicable. -Blair
Blair Smith, Vancouver BC
04/17/09 2:45 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Over-dramatizing
I'll give you credit, there, Blair. Some of the comments were, indeed, quite homophobic. I don't like to use that term because usually it's inaccurate, but this was one of the first times when it seemed appropriate. I think, though, that the Odyssey supporters were no less dramatic and hysterical when they suggested that the world would end if the club closed -- no more fundraising, no more safe place for gays, no more fun. I'm glad Councillor Jang tried to inject a bit of rationality into the debate by pointing that out.
Eddy, Vancouver BC
04/17/09 2:46 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
re: Real emotions, real names?
Thanks Blair. I sit humbled and a bit embarrassed that I haven't been as calm and eloquent as you. I sure do appreciate you, someone so involved with generating support for Odyssey, saying "90%+ of the NO campaign are not homophobes or evil". Given what I've been reading and what has been said by others about people like me who opposed the relocation, I've been feeling like a gay man with no country. If you or anyone reading this knows Adele I'd suggest you direct her to this post. I saw her eyes when that whole thing went down in the lobby outside of council chambers. She looked scared. It would probably be good for her to read what you wrote. You are 100% right. I pledge to dial down the rhetoric as you suggested. We have enough challenges in our lives without having to add tearing each other down to the list of things we do every day. For my part, if I've offended anyone with my opinions, I apologize. Now lets move on and, like my latest crush, Mike Holmes would say, "Let's make it right."
TheTruthiness, Vancouver BC
04/17/09 12:06 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Wow!
OK, so I got a message on Facebook telling me to come read the comments. A few things to say...TheTruthiness, you were right, that did scare the crap out of me. It's never comfy to have someone shake their fist in your face while yelling at you. Blair, I almost don't know what to say, so I hope a simple, sincere thank you will suffice. I have no idea who the guy was that yelled at me, I just know it wasn't you, Michael or Will...or for that matter, anyone else I'd had some healthy respectful conversations with. You are completely correct, I think had we met under other circumstances we'd likely have started off friends. You're a passionate guy with a whole lot of hootzpa and compassion - just exactly what I like in people! I've noticed we're both involved in a few other community initiatives (Save St. Paul's, BC-STV, etc.) so I am certain we'll connect again and I can assure you, for me it will definitely be amicable! Now, I have also heard from provincial government channels that BC Housing has finally chosen to face the reality that the 1251 Howe Street social housing project is not on any funding list. There is no funding in place for the project during this next fiscal year. It's a obvious blow for the desperately needed social housing, but it means that the extension for the Odyssey is not an IF but rather a HOW LONG and that makes much more sense for everyone involved. As I have all along, I wish the Odyssey a long and healthy business life at a location that works for everyone in our wonderfully diverse and inclusive community.
Adele, Vancouver BC
04/18/09 2:14 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
BC Housing, & search for a home.
Your welcome Adele, and thank you for your support of The Odyssey in general. We all think that the City could have handled this better for ALL concerned. Friday I did see a communication from BC Housing that THEY will not force the "O" to move right now. It has been forwarded to the city, and we are waiting. While waiting we are working on a few different fronts for a new home. (none near Denman) We had investigated the cinema space underground a couple times earlier, but it will not happen due to the owners. I did also hear that there is a petition in the 'hood against that location as well. No worries about us or any other operator for the near future. Once again, privacy of other's businesses prevent me from commenting further. We did however legally tie-up businesses and buildings while investigating how the City would play along. Others refused to negotiate and others simply said NO gay bar period in their building. So yes, over 100 locations were explored, and several negotiations undertaken before finding the possibility of 911 Denman. Michael & Bill did really hope to be good neighbours and do something great there. We will keep on, and hopefully any day now the staff will be secure in knowing that they are not out of work on April 30th. They have been in the loop since early fall, 6 months after our search was underway. They have been loyal long-term employees and family of The Odyssey. And I can tell you that a year ago Bill said that he just had to find a new home as he owed a duty of responsibility to these people. Honest. Michael and Bill don't HAVE to run this business, but it has been a long and enjoyable journey that doesn't seem right to give up just yet. Cheers to Queers as we used to say at Buddy's.
Blair Smith, Vancouver BC
04/19/09 2:11 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Oh Great Gay Community Gets Screwed Twice
While I am a vocal supporter of the Odyssey re-locating to Denman Street and saving those jobs, I'm equally concernd though after reading Blair's last post that BC Housing will not be starting the desperately needed housing for our community members who are sick, dying and homeless. It seems our community is getting screwed twice especially with BC Housing and City of Vancouver walking away from building housing for yet another year or possibly even longer if in fact, they build it at all. Look to the Olympic Village folks to be reminded of how the City appears to be walking away from its committment to social housing at this site. Be aware. Very aware.
JamieLee, Vancouver BC
04/19/09 3:12 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
A final weigh-in
As an Odyssey staffer I wanted to stay "out of the fray" as it were until the discussion here returned someplace productive. Thanks to Blair for and others for facilitating that. Adele, I'd like to echo Blair's sentiments. While passionate topics will always get a little heated at the edges, I know that both sides had people in place to make sure the vast majority of their supporters conducted themselves well. Thank you for that. JamieLee--I know many people are concerned with the current status of the social housing slated for sites around the city, not only at 1251 Howe St. For the purposes of this discussion thread though I do think it's very important to note that any extension granted to The Odyssey's by the City at this point will be predicated *entirely* on a timeline that does not impact the progress of the McLaren Housing project in *any* way. Though it is regretable that the funding for this group (who we have fundraised for on several occasions) is not in place, facing that reality and allowing a viable business to remain in place instead of adding another vacant lot to Vancouver is certainly the correct course of action. Thank you to everyone who added their voice to our efforts to recognize this fact.
Will McGuire, Vancouver BC
04/19/09 4:59 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
productive?
Just because you didn't agree with the opinions expressed here or didn't feel that the related issues were relevant to your cause doesn't mean that the discussion wasn't productive. It seemed pretty productive to me, considering the size of the thread and the extremely long messages that have been posted! It's quite narcissistic to think that this message board was designed specifically for the benefit of the Odyssey. The Xtra West article was about the Odyssey, but it's obvious that this case has brought up a lot of other issues that people feel are worth discussing for their own sake.
Eddy, Vancouver BC
04/20/09 12:00 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
re: Trivial Attacks
So JamieLee when emotions run high it's okay to attack people? Or just so long as they share your point of view. While there is no denying that Joan-E has made great contributions to the community, bad behavior is still bad behavior. While her intentions may have been honourable, some of her actions have not. The outburst at City hall, then smearing Councilors Woodsworth and Stevenson on her Blog were awful. She went too far though attacking members of this community by saying flat out we don't deserve to go out to the remaining bars if we did not support this move. I, for one, and many of my friends will be taking her advice. Of course only as far as not attending ANY events with which Joan-E is associated, or Hosting. This includes fundraising events such a Bingo for Life. I will however still continue to donate my time and money to these very worthy causes but through different avenues as I would hate to see these organizations penalized for her atrocious behavior. These organizations may want to consider how prudent it is to be represented by someone who has attacked and alienated a large segment of the community. She owes a big apology to a number of people.
Greg, Vancouver BC
04/21/09 2:01 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Joan-E
Hi Greg, Joan-E is a big girl and I think she can handle herself. I merely pointed out her contributions to our communities and I stand by my assertion that her comments were emotional and passionate considering she may lose her job and hence her livelihood. I haven't read her blog but I feel bad that this issue is dividing community members especially when there is already so much hate out there directed at us. Sorry if my opinions have hurt you Greg.
JamieLee, Vancouver BC
04/21/09 2:36 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Bye bye
Joan E - Joke JamieLee - Even bigger joke. Both never to be taken seriously. See how the crowds were managed (or lack of) outside the Odyssey last weekend spoke volumes about their security and professionalism. Maybe its time they started looking for new jobs.
Ken Lllenyck, Vancouver BC
04/21/09 3:45 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Bye bye
Joan E - Joke JamieLee - Even bigger joke. Both never to be taken seriously. See how the crowds were managed (or lack of) outside the Odyssey last weekend spoke volumes about their security and professionalism. Maybe its time they started looking for new jobs.
Ken Lllenyck, Vancouver BC
04/21/09 3:45 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Don't be rude.
I would encourage the editors of Xtra West to review these comments before posting them. It's disappointing to see a newspaper allow their subjects to be slandered anonymously in this forum. We can agree or disagree, but getting personal has ethical -- and legal -- implications. Clearly, the "community guidelines" are insuffucient.
Steven, Vancouver BC
04/21/09 4:02 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
blog
Where is this fabulous blog that everyone's talking about? And what's with all this talk of people 'deserving' to go to clubs and bars? Do people actually think this is some kind of privilege? :)
Eddy, Vancouver BC
04/22/09 1:13 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
re: blog
Hmmm, less of a Blog but more accurately a column called Joan-E's Rag on the website Pinq.ca the entry from April 11th is what has upset so many people. In the last paragraph she says flat-out that if you spoke out against the Odyssey you don't deserve to go out to any of the remaining gay bars because the community is running out of seats. Sadly, I think she's misjudged the amount of support there really was for the Odyssey application and has become a lightning rod to divide the community. Appreciate the apology JamieLee, I've actually got thicker skin than that, but thank you, I wasn't hurt by your comments at all. My objection is that everyone should be held to a standard of behavior without slinging mud. To lift a line from south of the border, we can disagree without being disagreeable. Making community contributions does not justify attacking people in an emotional fit.
Greg, Vancouver BC
04/22/09 5:59 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
A more important cause
If anyone wants to put their energy to good use, they might want to raise a stink about The Centre's potential move from the West End to, of all places, Burrard and 7th: http://www.xtra.ca/public/Vancouver/The_Centre_considers_moving_out_of_the_gay_village-6604.aspx
Eddy, Vancouver BC
04/22/09 6:49 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
thanks Greg
Thanks, Greg. I found the blog/column. I posted a comment, but I'm sure it will be rejected. You raise an interesting point about judging support. It's unfortunate that there wasn't a better way of gauging community opinion on this matter. The City obviously does a poor job of notifying people about various issues and does an even poorer job of gathering data. I forget what the response rate was to the City's initial solicitation of information, but I don't think it was ideal (although it was much higher than usual for the type of application they were dealing with). As for the larger community, it would be impossible to judge what the majority sentiment is without doing a proper (ie, 'scientific') survey. Without real information, all we have to go by is who has the loudest voice -- and that's clearly not sufficient.
Eddy, Vancouver BC
04/22/09 7:24 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Can't see the forest for the trees??
While I agree with all who think we cannot afford to lose another gay venue, what I don't understand is how so many people have turned a blind eye to the fact that Davie Street is being taken over by straight bars. If there is an ideal location to relocate the Odyssey, it is in my opinion the Davie Street SpeakEasy is the place. Why did our community not speak out when this straight bar moved into the 'hood. Slap a rainbow sticker on the window, and that's enough??? We have also lost a gay bar in 'Score' which is openly promoting itself as a straight bar, along with it's straight owner, and the Oasis is far more straight than gay. Don't even get me started on Celebrities, which should just move to Granville Street to among it's demographic peers. We are losing our bars and clubs right out in the open and yet everyone is freaking out about the Odyssey. Where is Joan-E, Blair Smith, and the other vocal supports of Odyssey on this issue? Last year the community freaked out about the rainbow banners coming down. Evidently as long the street 'looks' gay it's enough. Wake up Vancouver, the Odyssey doesn't have a place to move because straight bars are taking up the space. Steph.
Stephen, Vancouver BC
04/22/09 2:12 PM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Re:A final weigh-in
Your a joke Will. To think that these discussions have not been productive. Being the new Manager of the Odyssey can you shed a light on how your cleaning up the drug issues at the Odyssey. Are you still condoning "house dealers"? What about actual trained security that know what they are doing. You hire people with no formal training. How about the extreme over pouring that puts people at risk buy making the so inebriated they can't stand then kicking them out with no way home? Is this not constructive? Don't worry I dont really expect a response since this is not important to you.
Joe, Vancouver BC
04/23/09 2:43 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Re:A final weigh-in
Your a joke Will. To think that these discussions have not been productive. Being the new Manager of the Odyssey can you shed a light on how your cleaning up the drug issues at the Odyssey. Are you still condoning "house dealers"? What about actual trained security that know what they are doing. You hire people with no formal training. How about the extreme over pouring that puts people at risk buy making the so inebriated they can't stand then kicking them out with no way home? Is this not constructive? Don't worry I dont really expect a response since this is not important to you.
Joe, Vancouver BC
04/23/09 2:43 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Re:A final weigh-in
Your a joke Will. To think that these discussions have not been productive. Being the new Manager of the Odyssey can you shed a light on how your cleaning up the drug issues at the Odyssey. Are you still condoning "house dealers"? What about actual trained security that know what they are doing. You hire people with no formal training. How about the extreme over pouring that puts people at risk buy making the so inebriated they can't stand then kicking them out with no way home? Is this not constructive? Don't worry I dont really expect a response since this is not important to you.
Joe, Vancouver BC
04/23/09 2:44 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Re:A final weigh-in
Your a joke Will. To think that these discussions have not been productive. Being the new Manager of the Odyssey can you shed a light on how your cleaning up the drug issues at the Odyssey. Are you still condoning "house dealers"? What about actual trained security that know what they are doing. You hire people with no formal training. How about the extreme over pouring that puts people at risk buy making the so inebriated they can't stand then kicking them out with no way home? Is this not constructive? Don't worry I dont really expect a response since this is not important to you.
Joe, Vancouver BC
04/23/09 2:44 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.
Sorry
For some reason it posted my comments several times. Hmmmm maybe I am special. :)
Joe, Vancouver BC
04/23/09 2:46 AM EST
Report this comment to moderator.