Trans people well-educated, underemployed: report
NEWS / 68 percent of trans Ontarians live outside Toronto
Andrea Zanin / National / Tuesday, August 17, 2010
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“We’re sitting on undoubtedly the biggest resource on trans lives and trans health in Canada,” says Greta Bauer, lead investigator with the Trans Pulse survey, which surveyed more than 400 trans people in Ontario.

This first bulletin covers basic trans demographics in Ontario. In addition to highlighting the great diversity among trans people in terms of ethnic background, age, parenting status and other areas, it points out that an estimated 68 percent of trans people in Ontario do not live in metropolitan Toronto — “which really highlights the need for trans-appropriate services outside Toronto,” says Bauer.


The bulletin also provides some sobering numbers.

“You can see just how underemployed trans people are, even though they’re pretty well-educated across the board,” Bauer points out. “Half make less than $15,000 a year and only 7 percent make more than $80,000. The numbers are pretty disturbing.


The first set of Trans Pulse results has now been released. In total, according to Bauer, 433 people filled out the 87-page questionnaire — fewer than the team had hoped, but still a very significant number.

“The 1,000 was a number we pulled out of thin air,” says Bauer. “We aimed high. Part of the reason is that we wanted to make sure we had the funding if we did get that many.”

Bauer says recruitment moved at a slow pace due to the project’s respondent-driven sampling (RDS) method. In RDS studies, the only way for a person to obtain a survey to fill out was through someone who had already done so. Also, the survey was a whopping 87 pages long.

“With that in mind, we were absolutely thrilled that over 400 people were willing to fill it out!”

According to Bauer, the RDS method provides much more reliable data than simpler methods such as convenience sampling; for example, they were able to weight results based on the probability that people in a given region would be recruited.

“Trans people’s health is not on everyone’s radar, so we wanted the data to be as bulletproof as possible.”

The first set of data was released as an e-bulletin, available online at transpulse.ca.

“It’s the first of a series of many e-bulletins. It was important to us that if trans people took so much of their time and shared so much of their personal info with us, that we have community accessibility.”

Future bulletin topics will include housing, the long-term effects of hormone therapy and the factors that affect depression for trans people. More detailed analyses will also come out in academic papers, which the team will make available in open-access journals so that people not affiliated with a university have access to them.

The team also plans to use its data to produce reports for specific issues and projects, for example, to support the development of new policies surrounding the soon-to-be-updated process for accessing sex reassignment surgery (SRS) in Ontario.

“What we’re doing is using our data to help them strategize around what the community needs are going to be so that barriers to care for SRS are lowered,” says Bauer.

The Trans Pulse team was recently approved for two additional years of funding by the Canadian Institutes of Health Research, lasting through 2012. “We now have the capacity to keep coming out with results. So people can expect a lot of data over a long time.”

Landing photo of Greta Bauer courtesy of transpulse.ca.


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Reader Comments


 
Cut the umbilical cord
Perhaps the trans community could come up with their own media so there can be some refocusing on our issue of sexual orientation. (On a related issue, how the hell did gay become such a dirty word? You can't even say 'gay' any more without someone accusing you of excluding them). I'm not trans, so I can't speak for you. Stop expecting me to. That ridiculous asylum claimant from Ireland was the icing on the cake, when I saw the trans community activists rally around this bunch of steaming bullshit. I really lost a lot of respect for your collective ability to maintain a focus with logic and integrity. So, I'm done. Be the agents of your own liberation, and stop the whining.
Ellena, Toronto ON
08/20/10 12:36 AM EST
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The whine of a few....
There seems to be a lot of discord here. I'm new to much of any community but not new to human nature. It's really too bad that the whining of a few discordant and disagreeable trans people have ruined the credibility and the integrity of the group as a whole. None of the 'crank' minority who expresses their opinion here (me included) can presume to speak for the majority. However, in the end, we're all painted by the same brush. ----> Maybe it is time for the so-called (current) community to splinter into it's specific factions in order to get their individual needs heard and goals met.
J. B. Thomas, Toronto Ontario
08/20/10 7:43 AM EST
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Important study of members of our QUEER community
Many thanks for reporting on this very IMPORTANT health and wellness info on often overlooked members of the QUEER community. We in Ottawa did a similar GLBT study in 2001 and found the following: Depression was reported as an issue among 52% of transgendered respondents. Almost half of transgendered respondents report not getting the help they need for depression. Almost half of transgendered survey respondents would like to see specific services for transgendered people offered such as support and counselling groups. Seventy-one percent of transgendered respondents indicated that there are not enough GLBT friendly places to go and things to do in Ottawa. Twenty-six percent indicated that they don’t feel accepted by other members of the GLBT community. Participants in a focus group for transgendered people indicated that it is difficult and stressful to search for service providers who are educated about the realities and needs associated with being transgendered. Transgendered respondents report that they are frequently required to educate the service provider in order to be able to work with them. Some service providers are open to learning—others are not. The availability of a registry of service providers who are GLBT-friendly was of highest importance to transgendered respondents (77%). They also wanted to see a resource guide (72%) and more sensitivity training for professionals (62%). For those undergoing the long and often isolating process of transition to the other gender, covering the cost of medication and surgery is a formidable barrier to accessing the help they need. Another barrier that contributes to depression and isolation, particularly during the childhood, teen and young adult years, is the lack of transgender role models. To learn more about our findings get a copy of the report at http://www.pinktriangle.org/wellness/main.html
Bruce Bursey, Ottawa ON
08/20/10 12:43 PM EST
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We will overcome!
While Trans people of colour led the Stonewall March, yet we have been systemically erased from the movement which emerged. Reviewing some of comments here on this article is evidence of the harassment & discrimination trans people face on a daily basis. These comments suggest it is a strategic error to align with the gay and lesbian community. Luckily, I know many gay and lesbian people who are kind and supportive of our struggle. We will overcome - together!
Susan Gapka, Toronto Ontario
08/21/10 12:16 AM EST
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Oh look. Another Transphobic Asshole.
Normally, I try and remain civil. You know, community building. But Ellena, you're a fucking idiot. You're everything that's wrong with the "gay" community. The most pivotal battles in gay rights have been fought by the most marginalized of us, namely transsexuals. When people discriminate against you, dear Ellena, they're not stopping to figure out who you FUCK. They're discriminating against you for how you PRESENT, ie: are you a "too" masculine woman, or are you a "too" effeminate man. In other words, your fucking gender. Agents of our own liberation? The implication that you were once a trans ally? Laughable, dear ellena, laughable. And while your patting yourself on the back for your intellectual superiority to the "whining" transsexuals, you might want to reflect that the few rights you DO have were fought for with OUR blood, and our tears. And by "our" I mean transsexual. So enjoy your hetero-conformist, lesbian-separatist, second-wave-feminist utopia. We're just glad we could help even an asshole like you find a platform to vent your hate, and expound on your sci-fi version of reality. Fucking idiot. It's a shame that this will get taken down. Someone really should let you know that you're a big fucking idiot.
NOT ellena, toronto ontario
08/21/10 11:53 AM EST
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Ellena: us vs. them will get us all nowhere
Ellena, your comments are so frustrating and disappointing that i'm having a hard time producing a functional comment here. the first thing that comes to mind: most respondents identify as some sort of queer. it makes me wonder how you manage to write full sentences, since you clearly can't (or choose not to) read the whole article. yes, there are many separate issues that affect trans and gender queer people that maybe don't relate much to people like you, ellena, but there are many issues that one could use to cut and separate the diverse communities that make up the rest of the LGB banner, too. and then what's left of the (supposed) community, nevermind the paper? if i could only bring to the desert island of your transphobic mind one thing i learned from all the queer theory i've (tried to) read, it's the "we got to stick together" message from Feinberg's TransLiberation. And ze goes way beyond homos+trannies, to class issues, labour issues, dis/ability, race, etc. It's not standing up (only) for yourself that's gonna change the world, it's getting over the victim mentality that leads so many to permit themselves oppressive behaviour and thought toward other groups, and standing up for them, too. THEY ARE US! WE ARE THEM! As long as groups are focused on their own gains at the expense/exclusion of others, there can be no equality.
morgen, montreal quebec
08/21/10 12:55 PM EST
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brava, Ellena!!!
When people discriminate against you, dear Ellena, they're not stopping to figure out who you FUCK. They're discriminating against you for how you PRESENT, ie: are you a "too" masculine woman, or are you a "too" effeminate man. In other words, your fucking gender ---- IN YOUR OPINION!!!! IN YOUR THEORY!!!! Gay men (and I presume lesbians) get discriminated all the time because of who we FUCK!!! There is the fight for sexual rights. And there is a fight for gender issues. They are both REAL. One is not made up and the other legit. Stop the fucking insanity of insisting Gender Theory Dogma! Sex -- especially a man sticking his penis into the mouth of anus of another man with a penis (gender and sex both cis with cis) and if you think they do not, you are INSANE. ps Name some transgendered people who are well known for advancing sexual liberation rights after the Stonewall Trans Uprising. Who are they and where have they been all these 40 years???
Gay separatism from Trans NOW!!!, Toronto ON
08/21/10 7:34 PM EST
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Wondering
What are the underpinnings of ones gender identity. Assuming no apparent physical and hormonal issues, how does one come to the conclusion that one is the wrong gender. Is it because as a girl growing up you liked to do ""boy things"" or you did not like to wear dresses? Is it because you don't "want to grow old as a women in this culture". Absurd you say....""there is more to it than that"" Well, these are the reasons given by one prominant "transman" in Toronto...
pjr, Toronto ON
08/21/10 8:24 PM EST
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trans is a contradiction
pjr, The transgender essence is a lie. Gender Theory posits a Gender Binary and claims gender variant people are "smashing the binary" and YET trans people become trans "men" and do everything to mimic the most mainstream and stereotypical aspects of Western consumer capitaist "man-ness"! And the trans "women" imitate the most plastic anti-feminist characteristics of Hollywood females (see Nina Arsenault -a living example of the binary mimic despite the cock and balls). Somehow gay men and lesbians have been dragged pun intended) into this farcical lie because SOME gay men are sissies and SOME lesbians are bulldykes. Rather than create a movement of anyone doing whatever they want without labels, transgender is actually exacerbating the very labels and binary they claim to be `subverting`! IMO' old school women of trans history (transsexual post-genital surgury women)and intersexed people have nothing to do with gay and lesbian issues dealing with SEX -- genitals and fucking. But teenage girls seems to be obtaining male hormones like candy and finding surgeons to chop off their breasts at an almost fad-like rate. I think there are going to be a lot of very sorry and medically screwed up former girls in about 20 years. Not to mention the shit stirred for the sex rights struggles of gender whatevah gays and lesbians who just want to sex their cis genitals with like cis genitals without the Church and State getting all antsy. ps The trans movement has a huge PR loss with the `pregnant man` when the public realized that trans `men`were just vagina bearing women with hormones and breast removal. Buck Angel doesn`t help as well making trans`man` into a weird mancunt fetish for jaded or innocent gay or bi males
Post-trans tyranny, toronto ON
08/22/10 9:43 AM EST
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Demanding human rights isn't whining
Some people brand any resistance to suppression as "whining." How counter-revolutionary. Everyone should be paid a proper wage, have access to a workplace that isn't discriminatory, and have appropriate healthcare. We should be ashamed and angry that trans people are denied these rights. I'm tired of people pretending that trans folk are the latecomers to the queer rights struggle. Trans people have a right to be in the queer community because they built it. Don't know what trans people have done since stonewall? Freakin' Google it. And then remember Toronto has a trans activist history that has been largely unacknowledged. I'm equally annoyed by people who want to mourn the day when everyone had to use the same identity labels. Being nostalgic about gay hegemony in the queer community is just sad. Mature gay people go about their lives without needing to police what everyone else is doing. As for the study, I find it interesting as a native woman that while only 6% identify as aboriginal, 9% used the term two-spirited.
Margaret Robinson, Toronto ON
08/22/10 10:02 AM EST
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Yes
@Post-trans tyranny I totally agree. I thought I was the only one who thought this. I also agree with your observation about the "fad" componant to all of this especially amongst lesbians. Further, you are right on the money when you state the trans people are mimicing and buying into the stereotypes rather then subverting them. It is giving into society's ideas of what men and women should be rather then fighting those stereotypes. It would be far more subversive not to "transition" and be who you really are instead of following society's dictates.
pjr, Toronto ON
08/22/10 10:28 AM EST
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queer is not gay
Margaret Robinson, thank you for that textbook victim-centric entitlement whine. It had every flavour of the trans tyranny boo hoo we have all come to know and hate. Get a fucking job and stop the bullshit! ps "unacknowledged" is a Victim Screed of whine! Name them. Also "google it" is a cop out -- NAME THEM! ps the split in the so called "community" was shown during the Pride debacle -- the real rift between homosexuals seeking sex rights and gender queers seeking world revolution imposed according to their gender dogma is slowly coming more and more to light and will -- HOPEFULLY -- end this ridiculous LBGTQ "community" lie once and for all.
deaf to the whine, toronto ON
08/22/10 2:32 PM EST
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Phallusies of Sex Change
We learned our Gender-Identity along with our behaviour and attitudes --and we also learned to feel bad about who we are. We mutilate ourselves with surgery to try to fit in and to live up to the expectations of others. ....SexChange surgery does not actually change a person's sex--every cell of their body still has their original male or female DNA. Make-up and wigs do not make a man a woman. Hormone treatments help but cause major health issues. Estrogen increases risk of heart-attack and breast cancer. Does a Trans person's life become easier? Generally not!! ... They look weirder and faker than ever. They are actually scarier to most people, than in their original state.... HURRAY for ~PJR "It would be far more subversive not to "transition" and be who you really are, instead of following society's dictates."... Lesbians have been pushing and championing the Trans movement, and they shout down anyone who doesn't agree with them--as they usually shout down anyone who does not agree with them (so much for Freedom of Speech)....As for Trans being a FAD .... Ask the Trans people who regret their surgery and want to change back--but it's too late. Just live your life as you are. Build your self esteem by seeking people who like you as you are. Start enjoying your life.
No Sex-Change without DNA change, Toronto ONT
08/22/10 7:29 PM EST
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these comments
I don't even know where or how to begin with the naked ignorance of the reality, the lived, human reality, of the lives of my trans friends and lovers that is displayed in these comments. It really hurts to know that this is what some of those who share my sexual orientation feel about people who are dear to me, who share my community, and some of whom I love deeply.
Ace, Montreal QC
08/22/10 11:35 PM EST
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We will overcome! 2
Margaret and I are willing to publish our names, both here & in our publications. I disregard the comments from some electronic activists posting here as pure transphobia. If you had the courage to sign your name then I might at least believe you had some courage to accompany your foul language. We will overcome, despite your tranphobia.
Susan Gapka, Toronto Ontario
08/23/10 12:12 AM EST
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Thank you
Susan and Margaret, for having more patience and persistence than I do with the unalloyed hatefulness of anonymous bashers. You have courage and passion, as well as insight and compassion.
Douglass St.Christian, Stratford Ontario
08/23/10 6:09 AM EST
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Post-trans tyranny et al
The "trans binary" is a load of bullcrap put out by Blanchard/Bailey of the Clarke Institute (now CAMH), and if you buy into that than I have a bridge down in New York for you to buy. Here is how that crap got started (time for a history lesson): B/B got the idea that all transwomen (transmen have never existed to them because they can't be fetishized) are either only interested in masturbating with a vagina, corrupting good straight men into having gay sex with someone with a vagina (go figure that one out) or lieing. To this end, they did "research" that consisted of picking up transwomen prostitutes from bars and "asking them to take a survey". They published their report and other doctors read it. These other doctors then assumed that transwomen either wanted to wank, trick men, or were lieing (again, transmen don't exist in this world apparently...?) Now, whatever you may think of us, we are not stupid. If a doctor comes right out and says something like "now answer this honestly, A or B? by the way, if you answer A you will get this nice big cookie, and if you answer B then Bruno here will smash this chair over your back. A? Really? wow, maybe I should publish a paper on this!" The cookie is "allowing" us the privilege to receive medical care, the chair is delaying that medical care for months, years, or for ever. Tell me, if you had a disease with a 50% death rate, would you answer B knowing full well it could kill you? or would you not your head, say A, and hope to god they never find out? I'm a polyamourous, pagan, bisexual transwomen... according to my shrink I was a timid, quiet, straight transwomen, because if he had known anything else I would still be waiting on treatment... or dead.
K, Ottawa Ontario
08/23/10 8:42 AM EST
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what happened to gay and lesbian
If you do not believe in the Trans Queer Gender Tyranny, read this as from a Toronto university. In the endless list of victimized peoples, gay and lesbian (and bisexual) no longer exist. We have been subsumed under a few possible labels (queer, gender variant. Do these labels describe YOU? did YOU select them? Or is the university discriminating against gay men and lesbians by excluding them from the list of victimized peoples? (ps define "poor people"). If you thing the gender binary theory is bull, be aware that it is being enacted and lived by Queer Theory dominated sectors who have redefinied gay men and lesbians according to their dogma and not our self-descriptions. ------ "The Centre for Women and Trans People welcomes the contributions that individuals from marginalized communities bring to our organization, and invites aboriginal people, people of colour, two-spirited, poor people, queer people, trans people, sex workers, gender variant and gender queer, working-class people, single parents, members of racialized groups, immigrants and people with disabilities to apply, and people of non-western and/or dominant faiths."
subsumed against my will, toronto ON
08/23/10 10:14 AM EST
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the same academics
who think that every single transwoman just wants to wank or trap straight men into having gay sex? and that transmen have never and will never exist? THOSE academics? or do you mean the ones who make transpeople sit through pedophilia tests where they have to rate the sexual attractiveness of 6 year-olds before allowing treatment? or maybe, you mean the ones who hook up transwomen's genitals to machines to try and decipher their sexuality? Cause it sounds to me like academia has generally done a right crap job of treating us with respect too.
k, Ottawa Ontario
08/23/10 7:45 PM EST
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Thank you
mister many-names (I'll call you David for short) for your firehose spew of loathing and contempt. You illustrate very nicely the true feelings and utter hypocrisy of the GL, and why we should not be associated with you in any way. "Rights for me, none for thee," the gay credo!
Juniper, Laputa ON
08/24/10 8:20 AM EST
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Trans Thought Police bust faggot
Jupiter, I am a gay male separatist. I abhor the linking of trans to gay. I will call it out whenever I see it. It's a free market of ideas and your victim bullshit is over. There are 2 communities -- the Queer trans LBGYTOEetc one. And gay men who are not part of that. It's as simple as that, Juvenile.
david, toronto ON
08/24/10 1:12 PM EST
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Gender Identity is learned/taught not genetic.
Gender Identity is learned/taught not genetic. I wonder if there are more Trans people from very homophobic countries/regions with rigid/polarized heterosexual role-models. --- Trans people need not mutilate themselves with unnecessary surgery which causes even more trauma in their lives, to fit the expectations and role models of society. Sex-change surgery does not actually change sex. Make-up, hairstyles, wigs and clothing do not create sex-change. They create illusions, trickery and lies commonly used in theatre. Most Trans still look like their original sex, but in a weird way, which gives them a new set of problems. --- Gay men have to stop ostracizing effeminate Gays with avoidance and negative comments. Effeminate Gays and masculine women need to fight for the right to be who they are and to thrive, rather than to mutilate themselves with unnecessary surgery.
Trans Surgery is Mutilation, Toronto ON
08/24/10 7:33 PM EST
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excuse me
Speaking as an effeminate gay man, TSiM, I can say you don't know what you're talking about. I don't seek SRS because I'm not a trans woman. Trans women are not just effeminate men and trans men are not just masculine women. My lover, who had to fight damn hard to get access to the surgery he has always known he needs, definitely did not learn his gender identity from anyone. Everyone was telling him the exact opposite. The world was certainly not telling him to be a man. The world was telling him, be whatever you want other than trans, be whatever you want as long as you do it as a woman, for the love of God don't go there. Which sounds a lot like your message, oddly enough, which it's why it's so goddamn galling to have you throw it back in our face, to act like you recognize gender self-determination and gender empowerment unless it comes to trans people whose sovereignty over their bodies doesn't fit your theory.
Ace, Montreal QC
08/24/10 9:43 PM EST
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Reshaping Genitals is NOT Sex Change
Your actual sex is, what is coded in your genes. Having your genitals reshaped by surgery is like wearing a costume, same as a facelift. Cosmetic surgery cannot make you younger than you actually are, nor can it actually change your sex. What the surgeon sculpts exists only on the surface. You are only a facsimile of your fantasy. But most often only you are fooled by the disguise. It is rare that a Trans person can pass for the fantasy reconstruction. Therein lies the problem. The visuals don't really match. Trans women still look like men in women's attire and Trans men look like women in men's attire. Facial and body surgery to augment the so called sex change looks fake. That is what confuses people and makes people afraid = phobia. Fighting with angry words or politics to change attitudes may be a frustrating, loosing battle, because of those strong out-of-sync visuals. It is unfortunate that the strong outer-shell visuals sabotage the human being inside. But that is the reality...
Trans Surgery is a Costume, Toronto ON
08/25/10 2:38 AM EST
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I see
@We will overcome! 2 Why don't you address the arguements directly instead of resorting to emotionalism and the questionable logic of stating that you will disregard anonymous posts because the posters do not have "courage" in your eyes.
pjr, Toronto ON
08/28/10 1:29 PM EST
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trans issues
The way I see it, you can't prove that gay or lesbian exist except for the fact that we like to sleep with people of the same gender and you can see us around. Trans people exist, because, like us, they are here. I am not a fan of surgical gender changes but then again, it is not my body. I believe that if gender binaries are learned, and I tend to that, then some people who look masculine somehow end up wanting to dress like barbie... and I am all for them to do that with their full facial hair, but unfortunately society isn't. And, it isn't any of my business what they do. The issue of gender being an issue is not to the fact that you can be an effeminate gay without surgery. It is that trans and all queer people share an issue with gender stereotypes... it is great that effiminate gay males are happy with their bodies and that a fight was fought to make it more acceptable. How lucky of you, we can draw a line that just includes you as normal and leaves anyone more effeminate than you as abnormal. It has always been the queer community. Because, as someone mentioned before, it was trans people, the drag queens, the most effiminate gay men, the butch lesbians who fought for our rights. I have a lot of questions about transgenderism, and can't quite understand it. Still, trans people are part of this community and I have no problem with that. If a few of you want to separate, you can always take youself to an island.
Layla, Toronto Ontario
08/30/10 11:07 AM EST
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Are their needs really their own needs?
"Sex" refers to the biological and physiological characteristics that define men and women. "Gender" refers to the socially constructed roles, behaviours, activities, and attributes that a given society considers appropriate for men and women. "Male" and "female" are sex categories, while "masculine" and "feminine" are gender categories. "Gender Re-assignment" is not "sex" change. People who are not clear about differences between sex and gender cannot know where their inner needs came from. What influences since childhood drive their need for surgery? Are their needs really their own needs? Yes they have the right to mutilate their own body with surgery as people do with piercings. But the questions must be asked:"is the need to have surgery genetic or learned?" Is surgery a way of trying to do away with socially learned shame? In Iran Gays are given a choice "Sex Change" surgery or jail. There the stigma and shame of irregular gender behaviours are institutionalized. In the "Free World" shame is hidden yet glamourized. Cosmetic surgery is glamourous. Breast augmentation is glamourous. Sex-change surgery is glamourous and invites a lot of attention. You asked for the attention. Can you handle it?
Sex-Change is glamourous, Toronto Ont
08/30/10 1:58 PM EST
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*^%##$@+?><><?&&8%!!!!!
Hi everybody! I would like to add something to this wonderful, witty, urbane, discussion by I am not very good with expletives and strong language so I will just list the letters of the alphabet below and you can pick and choose your own words out of them. (BTW it's ok to use each letter more than once, please do not be stingy, they are for free!) ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
Ms Scrabble, Toronto Ontario
08/31/10 3:19 PM EST
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Unanswered questions
This study is a bit fishy in parts. It is estimated that transsexuals comprise at least 0.01% of the general population. On that basis there should be at least 1200+ trannies in Ontario alone. Sherbourne Health Centre alone has about 500+ tranny clients and they restrict their trans clients to those residing in the City of Toronto. However Trans Pulse managed to find only 433 respondents and it was a real struggle for them to find even those. They actually budgeted for a survey of at least 1000 respondents so why did they manage to overlook 70+% of the trannies out there? How representative of the total true tranny population is this survey? Apparently they started with just a few initial respondents but did not explain how they picked these and then the others were invited by this initial group to participate and each participant in turn was allowed to invite up to three other respondents. How did they pick those initial respondents? Why would they not just go to SHC and ask all their trans clients to be initial respondents and then go from there? This study is quite faulty because it was specifically designed to exclude large numbers of isolated trans people. Transsexuality is quite rare and most trannies report that they went through childhood and often well into adult life without knowing that there were others with similar issues out there. It is by nature an isolating condition. That 30% that was surveyed does not in any way represent the whole population. Judging by the questions in the survey it was oriented to tranny prostitutes and really you had to either be a tranny hooker or know one to get into this survey. Part of the problem is just defining who is "transsexual" and the survey managers do not explain their methodology for resolving this issue. They give it a fancy name like "RDS" but it still seems to be very fishy and politically driven when it would have been so much easier to do a complete census
Yours Truly, Toronto Ontario
09/01/10 7:17 PM EST
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wow
I finally decided to read this article after seeing so many comments on it, I hadn't read it earlier since an article on trans health wasn't of much interest to me since I'm not trans and don't have any trans friends. I was a little shocked and disturbed to see the hatred from those who seem to feel hard done by because other sexual minorities issues are associated with their own issues as gays and lesbians and those who don't seem to think trans folks are legitimate in some way. I would have expected all gays and lesbians to be more supportive of other sexual minorities but I guess as gay and lesbian becomes more mainstream some get upset by association with non-mainstream sexual minorities like all the variations of trans folks and those who identify as queer. I guess they're trying to gain even more acceptance from the mainstream by disassociating themselves from trans folks. I identify as queer because its a more encompassing identity label and I identify with other sexual minorities even if they aren't gay. From my experience gender presentation is more of a reason for discrimination than who we fuck, I've had heteros tell me they like me because even though I'm gay I'm a normal guy, I found it mildly offensive but also very revealing in that they didn't care who I fucked, just how I presented, I am fairly traditionally masculine but also limp wristed by nature but that's only really obvious when I get excited or very relaxed, both of which are less common when I'm around a bunch of heteros. Anyways I really think some people need to do some more listening to what trans folks have to say about their lives and experiences and have a little thicker skin if they're referred to as queer instead of gay or lesbian. Sexual minorities should stick together, just because gays and lesbians have achieved legal equality is no reason to disassociate from trans folks just because they're less acceptable to the mainstream.
Rich, Toronto Ontario
09/02/10 8:29 PM EST
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@Wow
"From my experience gender presentation is more of a reason for discrimination than who we fuck" Well this is the crux of it. If people are being discriminated against for "how they present", then I fail to see how "transitioning" addresses this discrimination. It would seem to me that "transitioning" reinforces and rewards that discrimination. Further, why should it be that gays and lesbians,by default, be supportive of all sexual minorities. Are you including paedophiles on that list? Now do not misuderstand, I am not making a comparison to transexuals, but rather, raising the question as to whether by default gays and lesbians support all sexual minoriities or even should. Finally, do not confuse questioning with hatred, I have not seen debate on this thread, only accusations of hatred.
pjr, Toronto ON
09/02/10 8:50 PM EST
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Re: Unanswered questions
Um, it's not really that fishy. a) 1000 was a random pie in the sky number. 433 is the largest number of trans people ever reached in Canada. b) The whole point of RDS is that you can't do a census of a fairly 'hidden' community. Nor is it a good use of resources, because you don't need to talk to everyone to get a representative sample. c) The survey actually was designed to avoid the bias that tends to exist when people are recruited through social services (towards lower-income, street-involved trans people). Not that more research about "tranny hookers" wouldn't be valuable, as you seem to be implying.
Adam, Toronto ON
09/02/10 11:34 PM EST
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re: pjr
Why are you assuming trans folks transition in order to cope with discrimination? I'm no expert on trans issues by any means but when I hear trans folk say their body doesn't match their gender, that they're so uncomfortable with having a physical sex that's the opposite of their real gender and are willing to do whatever it takes to transition so their body matches their gender I have no reason to doubt them like you and others seem to. I would imagine no Dr would perform the operations if they knew the patient just wanted to deal with discrimination, they require an awful lot of trans folks before any operation is done to make sure they are certain about not just wanting it but needing it to make themselves whole. If you don't think its hateful to question someone's core identity, to tell them they're wrong about themselves, or to even "just" debate their existence, experiences and needs then try imagining its people telling you you're not really gay, you're just afraid of women and then debate whether or not anyone is really gay or whether or not gay is something that people should be or want to be. I gather you're very young and haven't had such experiences yourself but for older gay men who have had their identities endlessly questioned, denied and debated like you and others are doing with trans folks I can tell you for certain it is a hateful thing indeed. Try using your imagination to see yourself in their shoes and try to imagine what that must be like, a good place to start is just to listen to what trans folks have to say.
Rich, Toronto Ontario
09/03/10 6:35 PM EST
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re: pjr cont'd
I guess there is no reason why sexual minorities should stick together except its the right thing to do, our community used to be unified by its shared experience of oppression but that's no longer the case for young gays and lesbians, at least in the big cities, who haven't experienced it like it used to be and still is for trans folks. Some people use their experience of oppression as motivation to fight for justice for all people, but especially for trans folks with whom we have shared so much over the years, trans folks have always supported gay/lesbian issues, it seems only fair we are there for them when they need our support. Besides no one is truly free while another is oppressed, that may be an old saying but its a very true one as well. Most of the gays and lesbians I know at least are very compassionate people when it comes right down to it, they've used their experiences of being picked on, discriminated against, ridiculed and marginalized to become better people themselves and to be compassionate towards those who are also being picked on, discriminated against, ridiculed and marginalized. Paedophiles, if they act on their urges, are child rapists and in no way comparable to other sexual minorities like gays, lesbians, bisexuals and trans folks, personally I find it offensive that I should even have to point that out to a supposedly gay person. There is an inherent difference between issues of gender and sexual orientation and child molestation. Gender and sexual orientation are very much related since just by being attracted to a member of the same sex you are breaking with traditional gender roles just as trans folks do but in a different way. pjr instead of questioning trans folks you should try listening and learning from them instead. I've been impressed and inspired by the courage and bravery of trans folks being themselves in spite of the obstacles and discrimination they face, its helped make me braver in being out all the time everywhere.
Rich, Toronto Ontario
09/03/10 6:59 PM EST
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Ahhh Rich
Shame on you for assuming..actually, I am not young and I AM NOT a man. I am curious as to why you make those 2 assumptions. Let's discuss the "good old bad days" when the "community stuck together". What a myth...Gay men ignored and marginalized lesbians and "straight looking" gays and lesbians looked down on those who were not. In regards to the "questionig of existance". Yes gays have had their identity questioned and I do not question the existance of transexuals. What I do question is the issue of "core identity" and the "fix". To me transitioning is akin to aversion therapy. It is something that is done to ensure conformity to gender norms. We need to think carefully about the implications of why people are so alienated from their own bodies that they are willing to change them. Not to mention to implications women becoming men and men becoming women in order to "fit". But really what are they "fitting" into? Is it societies expectations? The difference between gays and transexuals is that gays are not altering their bodies to conform to preconcieved ideas of what men and women are, but transexuals are doing just that.
pjr, Toronto ON
09/03/10 7:40 PM EST
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seriously?
"To me transitioning is akin to aversion therapy. It is something that is done to ensure conformity to gender norms." -- If my trans friends had wanted to "ensure conformity to gender norms," they would have found an easier way of going about it than being a member of a minority that is not protected in legislation and that is subject to extreme violence, discrimination, and disdain. The idea that trans people transition out of a sense of gender conformism denies reality on many levels, not least of which is the fact that there are a great many trans men who are not and do not wish to be traditionally masculine, and trans women likewise. (In fact, in many places, such people are actually *denied* the SRS and other transition-related care they want, by ill-informed and prejudiced doctors and other gatekeepers who falsely believe as you do -- a cruel irony.) You need to stop thinking in stereotypes and learn something.
LaReyne, Montreal QC
09/03/10 8:04 PM EST
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Are Scientists Pushing Sex-Change Experimentation
Sex Change surgery is just a crude beginning to future manipulations of the body. Through genetic manipulations, one day, people will be able to choose their sex and gender and body type and eye and hair colour, particular skills and talents and personality type, etc. While scientists are experimenting with those outcomes, how many people will suffer irreversible failures of those processes? Those who suffer failures probably don't do shows at bars, but hide away in the dungeons of their depression. Surgery, failed surgery, medical experimentation, cause a great deal of stress. Who is pushing Sex-Change onto people who think they need it? Is it scientists who have a desperate need to experiment on willing subjects as a way of boosting their own credentials? Why has sex-change become so necessary in the last 30 years? With good advertising and public relations anything could become a necessity in people's eyes. Sex-change has now gone from necessity to becoming glamourous.
Sex-Change Science Experiments, Toronto Ont
09/05/10 4:38 AM EST
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re: pjr
pjr I called you young because it was much more charitable than what I was really thinking of you and I assumed you were a man mainly because I know a lot more male names that start with p than I do female names. Just so you know. Again I'm no expert but trans folks are not anything like the gender bending you're describing, at least not those who feel the need to transition, playing with gender is one thing, feeling more female or male and expressing that through dress and behaviour or whatever is not the same as feeling beyond a shadow of a doubt you were born into the wrong body. Sure some are satisfied dressing and acting like the gender they are but their body isn't without transitioning but your claim that those who feel they need the same sort of body as their gender are just trying to fit stereotypes of what men and women are is insulting and denies their reality. Both gay men and lesbians are capable of having sex with the opposite gender if they really try but it doesn't bring the same sort of satisfaction that sex with someone of the same gender does, from what I understand about trans folks who want to transition its pretty much the same. Why should they tolerate a body that they don't want and which medicine can fix just to advance your notion of gender politics that says wanting your gender and body to match is wrong? How is that any different than insisting gays/lesbians only have sex with the opposite sex even though it feels wrong to them to do so? It also feels wrong to some trans folks to have a body that doesn't match their gender, why should only gays/lesbians do what they know is right for them but not trans folks? Trans folks have as much right to be masters of their own body as anyone else does, its their definition of themselves that matters, not some theory of gender politics trying to pretend gender doesn't matter. Maybe it doesn't matter to you but it does to an awful lot of people and nothing is going to change that.
Rich, Toronto Ontario
09/05/10 5:13 PM EST
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you're all wrong Rich
Rich, you are making a fool of yourself with your half understanding of transgender issues (by your admission you know no trans people or nothing about the issue). You have out of date liberal knee jerk grasp of the part of the issue and you lecture others using that half knowledge. Wow. A few things -- look up transgender as distinct from transsexal. Also check yourself -- are you same gender attracted or same sex attracted? Same sex attracted means attraction to gender (male or female characteristics physical and social) AND SEX -- the good, the penis and balls and meat of sex. The distinction between queer and gay is that the self-label queer means attraction only to gender with no care about the genitals of the person (transmen who call themselves gay have vaginas for the most part); while gay as a label means attraction to men with gender and sex as cis males. Also trans people are not a sexual minority. They are a disability minority. So they have nothing in common with gays and lesbians logically. Nothing to do with mainstream fear of queer -- that is childish. Being trans does not mean radical sexuality. It means nothing more than either transsexualism which you Rich seems to know and describe (the wrong body and surgury thing) or transgenderism which is another thing entirely and something that most gays and lesbians including you do NOT understand at all -- yet you lecture the rest of us about!!! Ridiculous. Political alliances of groups is always complex and the relation of trans and gay is one issue. The difference between gay and Queer is another. You need to do a lot of homework, Rich, before you come all self-smug and kicking ass here.
reinventing the wheel over and over, toronto ON
09/10/10 9:40 AM EST
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