Religious rights take priority over 'other rights': TCDSB
TORONTO NEWS / 'Gay is not a lifestyle consistent with the Catholic church': delegate
Andrea Houston / Toronto / Thursday, September 01, 2011
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UPDATE: Sept 8 -  Since the Toronto Catholic District School Board (TCDSB) meeting Aug 31, many religious groups have reacted with vitriol in blogs and in print to the decision to reject anti-gay amendments to the board's equity policy.

Faye Sonier, legal counsel for the Evangelical Fellowship of Canada, slammed the board in her blog Sept 6, saying its equity policy, mandatory as part of the Ontario government’s equity and inclusive education strategy, has sparked parents to mobilize and fight back “over fears that it will give homosexual activists a foothold in order to further subvert already weak Catholic sexual teaching in the schools,” LifeSite news reports.

Sonier says the policy stands in direct conflict with the Vatican because it recognizes sexual orientation as grounds for discrimination, comparable to race and ethnic background. “Unlike these, homosexual orientation is an objective disorder and evokes moral concern,” she says.

Evangelical minister Royal Hamel also published a Sept 2 column in the Guelph Mercury. In the column he applauds Catholic parents for pushing back to “defend Catholicism” in schools.    



Sept 1 - Trustees at a Toronto Catholic District School Board meeting decided to put denominational rights above human rights and tried to make a direct attack on gay-straight alliances.

The Aug 31 meeting was the final debate on the TCDSB's equity and inclusive education policy, which has already passed. More than 100 people packed the gallery for the fiery meeting; in the majority were a vocal contingent of people objecting to homosexuality being taught in any way in Catholic schools, including within the context of bullying prevention and peer support.

“Denominational rights are the first priority,” trustee John Del Grande repeated several times.
Members of Catholic Students for GSAs wait for their turn to speak.
(Andrea Houston)


Before the meeting started, Queer Ontario’s Casey Oraa told Xtra that the board had refused to allow GSA activist Leanne Iskander and members of Catholic Students for GSAs to speak, even though the group filled out a form ahead of the meeting.

Oraa says it seems that the board stacked the list of 10 delegations with nine that were pro-Catholic, allowing only one space for anyone to speak in favour of the policy.

When it was Oraa’s turn to speak, he graciously bowed out, offering his spot to the students and saying the board should really start listening to what students are saying.

“I have been watching. They gave Leanne and the students exactly three minutes to speak. Everyone else got much longer,” he said.

Emmy Milne, communications manager for the TCDSB, says each of the 10 delegates were permitted to speak for three minutes, reduced from the usual five.

Those who did speak objected to the equity policy in total, claiming it is just another way that “the homosexual agenda is normalizing a lifestyle choice.”

Student Kayla Martin called it an attack on Catholicism.

“Is the act of homosexuality something we support as Catholics?” Martin asked the board. “The answer is simply no.”

Meanwhile, anti-gay screams and shouts echoed from the gallery.

The most controversial amendment, which would have blocked students from forming GSAs, was defeated. The amendment would have ensured the board only approve school clubs that "are consistent with Catholic faith and moral teaching on marriage and sexuality."

Delegate Anna Lukowski says being gay is not a "lifestyle consistent with the Catholic church. The board should only have goals that are consistent with Catholic faith and doctrinal rights."

The battle for GSAs began in January when the Halton Catholic District School Board banned the groups, which are stipulated as requirements by the Ministry of Education in its equity policy.

Roman Catholic schools have repeatedly denied students’ requests for GSAs, saying supports are already in place and church doctrine condemns gay sex as “sinful and immoral.” One example of the “supports” given to gay, lesbian, bisexual and trans students is the community group Courage International, an organization that claims to “cure gays.”

In March, members of the GSA at Mississauga’s St Joseph Catholic Secondary School were blocked from forming any group with the word “gay” in the title.

Then, this summer, a letter from a priest representing Toronto’s Coptic Christian community threatened to pull thousands of students from TCDSB classrooms if homosexuality is taught in schools in any way.


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Reader Comments


 
Let them
It's long past time that our government stood up for these kids. No candidate will get my vote without addressing this issue to my satisfaction.
Randy, Windsor ON
09/01/11 6:11 AM EST
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Human Rights are First
Never, never, never, should "religious" rights trump human rights. Religion is a personal choice by an invdividual, whereas human rights are enshrined in the Charter for ALL Canadians. If the catholics want to violate human rights in their school system, then they should not be getting taxpayers' money. Let the Papists fund their own school system and their own bigotry!!
Kieran, Mount Pearl Newfoundland
09/01/11 12:19 PM EST
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Sad day
The catholic church should be about the Reign of God, about love, compassion and justice. The word "catholic" implies that it is inclusive. The TCDSB, taking their matching orders from the catholic hierarchy and its "Temple police" have made a charade of what the catholic faith really is all about. It's a sad day! Yet, there are catholics (including bishops and priests) who have different ideas about this, who are supportive. Don't give up: you will eventually win this battle. And to the students: I admire your courage in fighting for a good and just cause.
Henk Gal, Calgary Alberta
09/01/11 1:51 PM EST
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The good thing about this...
I think the Catholic parents don't understand that by making a big fuss over this issue they're quickening the demise of publicly funded Catholic education in Ontario. The louder the noise they make the more non-Catholics will hear about it and demand change. Politicians, too, can't stay out of the debate forever. I think it will even be an issue in this election. And if it goes to the Supreme Court, I'm sure the court will recommend a constitutional amendment or something similar to what has happened in Quebec or Newfoundland. The really stupid thing is that the Catholic groups are making their own self-negating arguments: "Gay is not a lifestyle consistent with the Catholic church" How about: "Discrimination is not consistent with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms"
Adam Gorley, Toronto Ontario
09/01/11 2:47 PM EST
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Why Is My Tax Money Paying For Homophobia?
Why are we still funding the Catholic School Board anyway? Tired of this still going on. Human Rights should trump Denominational Rights every time. Take away the money honey...it talks. I applaud the students who are fighting for GSA's, everybody should feel safe in the public school system. Bullies and this includes the Catholic School Board Be Gone!
Troy Jackson, Toronto Ontario
09/01/11 2:54 PM EST
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End funding now
This must lead to the ending of public funding of bigotry and hatred, most politicians are to afraid to touch this issue unfortunately. Just look and Quebec and Newfoundland, they ended it,,, Ontario should be next.
brent, toronto on
09/01/11 2:56 PM EST
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On the constitution
First, freedom of conscience and religion is the first enumerated right in the Charter. Second, Ontario must fund Catholic schools under §93 of the Constitution Act, 1867. Third, §29 of the Charter states, "Nothing in this Charter abrogates or derogates from any rights or privileges guaranteed by or under the Constitution of Canada in respect of denominational, separate or dissentient schools." To end public funding of separate schools would take a constitutional amendment, meaning at least the federal and Ontario governments would have to pass it.
Geoff Gilmour-Taylor, Toronto Ontario
09/01/11 3:08 PM EST
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Rally
We must make this an election issue before the politicians return to their silence and unwillingness to help. There will be a rally at Queens Park, September 18th, 1:30PM. This may our chance to make the politicians listen. Please attend to make a difference! https://www.facebook.com/groups/198391693513098/#!/event.php?eid=260860490605246
KLS, Toronto Ontario
09/01/11 3:35 PM EST
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Same argument used for Muslim schools
You do realize that this same argument (religious rights trumps all other rights) is being used by Muslims right now to have their imams and religious services brought into public schools. Personally, I think that gay rights will eventually end up being the downfall of the Catholic school system. I hope a lawyer takes this case all the way to the Supreme Court. However, if the argument is accepted, that means that Muslims will also use schools to harass and discriminate against gays.
xox, xox Ontario
09/01/11 4:20 PM EST
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All Rights are Religious
It is good to see that Canadian Christians retain their identity. There will always be anti-Christian bigots who attack the Church, and infiltrate it. Homosexuals are affluent, and homosexuality is the sexual manifestation of bourgeois, capitalist, individualist vice. If we want to clean house, to have a more just economy, we need to begin by explaining that we are creatures with dignity and essential natures that leave no room for suicide, unmitigated greed, homosexuality, rape, or other vices that enslave us. We must be strong, we must be filled with love. Christ be with us. We have a lot of work to do.
Jane, Sheffield United Kingdom
09/01/11 4:37 PM EST
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GSA Catholics & Muslims
For the best interests of chlldren and families in the future, including GAY ones Muslims and Catholics MUST accept and stop their religious bullcrap. Muslims generally support Male Equality. Currently me, a god damn Gay male is fighting for MALE EQUALITY which ONLY A Gay man could secure. FL01-11127 is Male Gender Family law discrimination. Women even gay ones still have more rights, as gay man I'm not equal even since 2005 FRAESS case. August 1,2011 changed lots but NOT ENOUGH and Gay male family is still left behind. for male equality muslims likely will support Gays. Catholics must also comply for best interests of children and male equality gay OR STRAIGHT. How many straight men know what Parent Alienation Syndrome is or FALSE ALLEGATIONS. Fl01-01406 is the King/Queen of both. Justice Bensler with decision of Pandora's Box in Family law since April 20th, 2011 . google gay dad challenges family law act or goodgle gay custody battle could or follow fitnessexecdwh on twitter or Dax hart FB profile. Time for a GayCdnCaravan eh ladies?
Dakota Wilfred Hart, Calgary Alberta
09/01/11 6:17 PM EST
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Public Funds for Public Schools
Public school funding should be for public schools - only. There is no need for a separate catholic school board in Ontario and the drama around this issue proves it. Believe me I know. I went to a catholic elementary school only to realize upon entering high school that my new classmates had received far better instruction in science and mathematics. Catholicism is completely out of date. Congregations in every town across the province are shrinking. Men who are willing to be priests are few and far between. Don't get me started about nuns. So-called catholics live in a fog of denial. Now, as an out member of the LGBTQ community I am so happy to have said goodbye to catholicism and hello to the united church. Catholicism never wanted me anyway. It is the most pretentious, condescending, falsely pious religion on the planet!
Sara, Ottawa Ontario
09/01/11 8:01 PM EST
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Religieon = Child Abuse.
Children trust that adults will not lie to them, yet we have fully grown adults doing just that. The cycle of mental abuse being passed from one generation to the next has to be stopped. Children, under the age of 18, should not be allowed into churches. Just as they are not allowed to purchase and consume alcohol or be in bars. They only believe this nonsense into adulthood because they've been so brainwashed by their elders they simply cannot imagine the world without their fairy tale to comfort them. All tax breaks and public funding for such childish nonsense must be ended immediately. They can choose to follow these stories if they want, but do not expect the rest of the adults in the world to have to pay for it, give up any rights or freedoms or really generally respect it. There will be a day when the planet will be rid of this mental sickness, these cults known as 'organized religion'. If that day doesn't come it will only be from these cults fighting one another and destroying the whole planet. Of course, what do you expect from a cult that is waiting for the day when the planet is destroyed. I will not live my life being kind to anyone who identifies as a member of any such cult. -Jason
Jason, Toronto Ontario
09/01/11 8:41 PM EST
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Freedoms From, not Freedoms Against
I think if you frame the argument as a question of one right taking precedence over another, then you're presenting it as a philosophical dilemma where the two sides appear equal. I don't think this is the case here. The Catholics appear to posit that the right to freedom of religion grants them the right to oppress others. I believe this to be a mischaracterization of what freedoms are about. Most succinctly, one's freedoms stops where that of another begins. With that in mind, the Catholics aren't being told they can't pray, can't organize, can't worship. Things for which Catholics do face very real discrimination elsewhere in the world. What they are being told is that they cannot discriminate against others. Unfortunately, such messages fall on deaf ears when those we seek to convince don't believe that all are equal, and equally deserving of freedoms. So for now, I do very much hope the government acts and ends this publicly funded bigotry once and for all.
Julien McArdle, Ottawa Ontario
09/01/11 10:36 PM EST
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No discrimination
There is no discrimination going on here. The Catholic schools discourage bullying more than public schools do (I'e attended both). In order to discourage bllying in general, they don't even have to go into the details of sexual behavior. This is no different than public schools discouraging bullying against religious students without going into details of the religions.
Bill, Ottawa Ontario
09/01/11 10:39 PM EST
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Newfoundland
"I'm sure the court will recommend a constitutional amendment or something similar to what has happened in Quebec or Newfoundland." Newfoundland has a multi-denominational Christian school system in which all the denomination beliefs are expressed.
Bill, Ottawa Ontario
09/02/11 12:52 AM EST
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Protect All Rights
All rights deserve equal protection and no set of rights should enjoy greater protection than another set of rights. When Ms. Lukowski says being Gay is not a lifestyle consistent with the teachings of the Catholic church, she needs to recognize that being Gay is not a lifestyle, PERIOD. The use of the word "lifestyle" implies being Gay is a choice and if these people did any study of independent scientific and psychological research, they would know homosexuality is not a choice. Religion on the other hand is definitely a choice. Even if being Gay was a choice, if you deny human and equality rights protection on that basis, then the same protection must be denied to religious groups. Certainly no one religious or other group should be accorded special rights such as those given to the Roman Catholic Church. Failure to implement and enforce policies against homophobic bullying gives permission for such bullying to take place. No school district or school, secular or religious, that values the lives and health of their students, can dare to ignore bullying of any kind, including homophobic bullying. A bit of history concerning Catholic schools is worth considering. Catholic schools were created when Catholics faced serious discrimination from anti-Catholic bigots and when protestant religion was taught in public schools. These conditions no longer exist in our society and schools. At a time of fiscal restraint, one wonders why we are saddled with the expense of maintaining a separate public religious school system when the reasons for their creation no longer exists.
Wayne Madden, Edmonton Alberta
09/02/11 2:09 PM EST
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re: Protect all rights
The Church says that it is not a choice and all compassion and support should be given to people of gay identity. Choosing o live a gay lifestyle IS a choice. The schools do enforce policies against homophobic bullying more than public schools. On your taxes you decide which schools you want to support. If they want separate the schoolb boards then fine. If Catholic tax payers in Canada have to fund abortions, then I think there can be some leeway with the schools.
Bill, Ottawa Ontario
09/02/11 5:49 PM EST
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re: Protect all rights
In Alberta, the Catholic schools pay for themselves.
Bill, Ottawa Ontario
09/02/11 8:49 PM EST
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re: Protect all rights
"If Catholic tax payers in Canada have to fund abortions, then I think there can be some leeway with the schools." So our taxes pay for a medical procedure that your religious beliefs don't agree with? So what, those are merely your religious beliefs. What is it with 'christians' or any other brainwashed cult follower and their inability to understand people who do not follow such nonsense? Wake up, grow up, and start being a thinking human being, not a mindless cult follower. For Christ's sake.
Jason, Toronto Ontario
09/02/11 10:45 PM EST
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re: Protect all rights
"If Catholic tax payers in Canada have to fund abortions, then I think there can be some leeway with the schools." So our taxes pay for a medical procedure that your religious beliefs don't agree with? So what, those are merely your religious beliefs. What is it with 'christians' or any other brainwashed cult follower and their inability to understand people who do not follow such nonsense? Wake up, grow up, and start being a thinking human being, not a mindless cult follower. For Christ's sake." Most are ELECTIVE surgery. I'm not brainwashed, but I am unable to understand the murder of kids.
Bill, Ottawa Ontario
09/03/11 12:10 AM EST
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re: Protect all rights
Compare the 80 mmillion a year spent on elective abortions.Talk about a burden on the government and that's not just Ontario. It's across the board. What is spent on duplicating a school board is peanuts compared to elective abortions.
Bill, Ottawa Ontario
09/03/11 10:13 AM EST
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Catholic system duplication costs
"What is spent on duplicating a school board is peanuts compared to elective abortions." Bill tells us that elective abortions cost Canada $80 million a year, and that this figure is far greater than what the Ontario public pays in duplication costs to run a parallel Catholic school system. Bill, you're wrong, by a factor of about 15. The duplication costs are closer to $1 billion per year. The fact is, we don't have an exact figure because the government doesn't publish such figures (wonder why?), nor does it make it easy to determine them for oneself. However, we can say some things with certainty. Activist Renton Patterson wrote to the Province in the early 90s asking about the duplication costs of extending public funding beyond grade 10 (the result of 1985's Bill-30). Here's the answer: $200 million. Here it is on Ministry letterhead: http://i.imgur.com/4zQYg.jpg . Given that there are more elementary school administrators (board offices, etc.) than secondary school administrators, the duplication costs likely exceed $1 billion 1991 dollars. Which is somewhat higher than the $80 million Bill keeps quoting.
Sam, Windsor Ontario
09/05/11 8:54 AM EST
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And the expansive flood
begins. Meanwhile in Dullard Land, all the young pansies, who believe they are just like the mediocre straights with equal rights (whatever) are asleep at the wheel, when in fact they should be taking to the streets like their elders did. Oh well....and so it begins.
Tim, Toronto ON
09/05/11 9:38 AM EST
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What's the issue?
Using religion as a cloak for acts of discrimination and hate...that won't get out of hand. Right?
Chris, toronto on
09/05/11 10:23 AM EST
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Does your religion require you to tell lies?
"Bill", I find it fascinating that every single one of your comments contains at least one easily verifiable lie. *1. "Catholic schools in Alberta pay for themselves. That's a lie. They are publicly funded. *2. "The duplication costs of Ontario's Catholic system is less than $80 million." That's a lie. *3. "On your taxes you decide which schools you want to support". That's a lie. The check-boxes on your property tax forms have Nothing to do with directing your property tax dollars to this system or that. *4. "There is no discrimination going on here." LOL. *5. "Newfoundland has a multi-denominational Christian school system." Bill, have you bothered reading a newspaper in the last decade? Newfoundland has no more publicly funded religious schools of any stripe. There was a referendum (2, in fact), and the people of NFLD, who are mostly Catholic, chose to do away with public funding for religious schools. Think about that.
Samantha, Toronto ON
09/05/11 10:47 AM EST
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No anti-homosexual screams
"Meanwhile, anti-gay screams and shouts echoed from the gallery." I attended the meeting and did not hear any anti-homosexual screams. There were definitely some shouts during the meeting, but they were directed at the trustees who ignored the wishes of most of those who attended the meeting.
Clay, Toronto Ontario
09/10/11 8:14 PM EST
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They can opt out of public funding
The Catholic School Boards should either voluntarily opt out of public school funding or have it rescinded. People have the right to believe anything they want - no sweat off my brow - it is irrelevant to my life. However, people do NOT have the right in the name of whatever belief system they follow,to ignore the law if they are getting tax dollars. Discrimination should never be tolerated- ever. GSA's provide a safe haven for students who otherwise, would not have someone to talk to or to lean on. They are not part of some mythical "homosexual agenda" - no such thing exists except in the minds of some religious folk who seem to be afraid of anything that looks, smells, or is remotely "other". Adults should be modelling the behaviour they expect from their children - by insisting on institutionalizing discrimination and fear adults are stifling personal growth, compassion, and understanding. If the Catholic School Board and its minions feel that strongly then opt out of public funding and fund yourselves - until then obey the laws as set out for publicly funded schools. I say people choose one or the other - public funds means following the rules and regulations that all schools must follow. Molly
Kim, Palmer ON
09/16/11 1:00 PM EST
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TDCSB must be eliminated
I agree with Jason. Religion = child abuse PLUS abuse against women. I am also a woman, a mother. My daughter's life was ruined by one "public figure" of the TDCSB. That "public figure" hurt me, the mother, so much that I exposed the bastard on http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZidQ36GALo and on several liars, cheaters, and bastards websites. I understand that for a teacher to get a job at the TDCSB he/she must get two references from local priests to the fact that he/she regularly attends masses. The character of the individual does not seem to border anyone - apart from the fact that .. what can any 'priest' to say into the hiring process of a school funded by taxpayers? THIS IS CALLED DISCRIMINATION IN MY LANGUAGE! Toronto Catholic District School Board has to be eliminated and all of them must be fired for amorality. I would not be surprised if that individual whom I exposed on YouTube and on liars, cheaters, bastards websites, would have a computer full of pornography or even be having some child pornography in one of his apartments. But his employer is not concern with the amorality of this employee as long as he attends masses every Sunday.
noname, Toronto Ontario
09/18/11 6:01 PM EST
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