Crown applies to intervene in HIV criminalization case
HIV CRIMINALIZATION / A 'kick in the face' for those working on the issue, say activists
Danny Glenwright / Toronto / Thursday, September 15, 2011
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Ontario’s attorney general has applied to intervene in a Supreme Court of Canada decision that activists say could make it easier for courts to convict HIV-positive Canadians who don’t disclose their status to sexual partners.
 
In a document submitted on Sept 9, the attorney general’s office noted there was “uncertainty and unfairness” in current laws. 
 
It is calling for a consent-based framework rather than the current legal approach, which has been applied unevenly and has allowed judges to convict HIV-positive Canadians even when they haven’t passed on the virus.
 
“This is a kick in the face for people working on this issue,” says Tim McCaskell, a member of the AIDS Action Now steering committee. “This basically makes disclosure a requirement for any kind of interaction. As we know from Bill Clinton, it’s difficult to know what’s sex and what’s not. If we give someone a peck on the cheek, is it sex?”
 
Tim McCaskell at an AIDS Action Now video launch.
(Andrea Houston)
McCaskell is frustrated with Ontario Attorney General Chris Bentley, who last year told Xtra he would consult members of the community about creating prosecutorial guidelines to ensure less confusion in the courts.
 
In several instances, people have been charged with assault or aggravated assault for spitting or scratching someone, while others have been charged with attempted murder because they did not disclose their HIV status before a sexual encounter, even when a condom was used. 
 
“This goes in the completely opposite direction,” says McCaskell of the request to intervene in two cases from Courts of Appeal in Manitoba and Quebec, which will be appealed at the Supreme Court. “This would mean that if significant risk was no longer a criterion, then any HIV person who didn’t disclose in almost any circumstances could be prosecuted.”
 
Current Canadian law around HIV criminalization dates back to the 1998 Supreme Court Cuerrier decision, which ruled that knowingly exposing a sexual partner to HIV amounts to aggravated assault. This means people living with HIV have a legal duty to disclose if they could expose a partner to a significant risk of transmission.
 
However, prosecutorial guidelines to define what constitutes a significant risk have never been formalized, which has led to unfairness, something Bentley's office recognized in the application.
 
A 2010 decision in the Manitoba Court of Appeal acquitted an HIV-positive man for sexual encounters in which a condom was used, or when a condom was not used but he had an undetectable viral load. The Court found neither was a “significant risk.”
 
Similarly, a Quebec Court of Appeal acquitted an HIV-positive woman who had sexual intercourse on one occasion without disclosing her status. Neither decision is binding in the rest of Canada and prosecutors in both cases applied for an appeal to the Supreme Court.
 
Bentley's office has applied to intervene in these cases, asking to remove the criterion of “significant risk.”
 
It stated in its application “the issues at the heart of these appeals are very important to the administration of justice.
 
“The task for the Court in these cases will be to devise a workable test that provides clarity, protects the public as best as possible and promotes certainty about the meaning of consent to sexual activity.”
 
The application notes that Ontario has a large number of criminal prosecutions and the highest number of HIV-positive people in Canada.
 
Cecile Kazatchkine, a policy analyst with the Canadian HIV/AIDS Legal Network, calls the decision to intervene in these cases a “radical move” that would lead to more HIV-positive people behind bars and have no impact on HIV prevalence rates.
 
Canadian HIV/AIDS Legal Network policy analyst Cecile Kazatchkine calls the Crown's decision a radical move.
(Marcus McCann)
“It would provide more clarity, but it would provide even more unfairness as well,” she says. “It could possibly amount to discrimination against people living with HIV. It means everyone living with HIV in Canada who cannot prove they disclosed their status may be at risk of going to jail, even in cases where they used reasonable precautions to protect their partner.”
 
She says Bentley has disregarded scientific advancements since the original 1998 Supreme Court decision.
 
“It is quite contradictory and doesn’t make sense,” she says.
 
Not true, says Glen Murray, Liberal MPP for Toronto Centre and a founding member of the Canadian AIDS Society.
 
“I’m very sensitive to this,” says Murray, who asked activists to have patience with the attorney general. “It’s a very complex set of decisions, a complex science, because you’re talking about levels of risk that are interpreted differently.”
 
Murray says Bentley has assured him that his office will listen to the concerns of McCaskell’s steering committee and pursue evidence-based guidelines.
 
Bentley’s office refused to comment until after the application has been reviewed.
 
“We are in a difficult situation because we are in a writ period,” says Murray. “I can’t act directly in my elected post because we’re in an election right now.”
 
But McCaskell thinks Ontario should immediately withdraw its request for intervention at the Supreme Court or intervene for a scientifically accurate assessment of significant risk.
 
Anything else, he says, is unacceptable.
 
“If you give somebody a blowjob in the park and then you get charged with sexual assault because you didn’t give the guy your medical resumé? This is bizarre, but that’s exactly what this is opening up.”
 
 
Attorney General's Application


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Reader Comments


 
Time to kick back
Ontario's Attorney General Chris Bentley is on record in a previous XTRA interview of committing to an ongoing process of consultation with community toward developing guidelines for criminal cases of HIV non-disclosure for crown prosecutors. The Ontario Working Group on Criminal Law and HIV Exposure has participated in that process in good faith and has produced an excellent document that arises out of its own consultation with community and public health and scientific experts that makes a number of useful recommendations about prosecutorial guidelines. Bentley's move to support the Manitoba Court of Appeal in the Mabior and DC cases that have been appealed to the Supreme Court of Canada is a complete 180 on that commitment. Glenn Murray's stance to ask activists for patience is RIDICULOUS!! The Ontario Ministry of the Attorney General continues to aggressively pursue criminal charges, it has ignored CLHE's consultation report, it is now supporting a position that people with HIV should face criminal charges if they don't disclose to sexual partners regardless of the risk levels of they pose, and it has turned its back on its commitment to open dialogue on this issue with the communities that are most affected. Patience? I don't think so.
Eric Mykhalovskiy, Toronto Ontario
09/15/11 12:40 PM EST
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dumb government
so i need permission to have sex ehh??? why the hell should i ? public health already dictates how i should live my life... and being medicated means i am undetectable... so am i contagious ??? even with a condom??? no! of course not... all this makes light of my attempt to never infect another person... my own choice yes.. but the law states that i am infectious which i know to be false.. if i spit at someone it is not an assault.. peoples own reactions to me and my life has made me want to puke let alone spit at someone...
T, Guelph ontario
09/15/11 1:46 PM EST
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NFORMED CHOICE --IS THE ONLY REAL CHOICE
“If you give somebody a blowjob in the park and then you get charged with sexual assault because you didn’t give the guy your medical resumé? This is bizarre...” McCaskell uses exaggeration and sophistry and the weird word “bizzare” to discredit a serious issue. “INFORMED CHOICE -- IS THE ONLY REAL CHOICE.” Risk Based activity and Risk Based legal judgement can mean different things to different people. A man who is drunk or stoned will rationalize away various levels of “risk.” The only Gold Standard is “HIV disclosure” before all sex. That is the only way another person can make an informed choice, to have or not have sex with someone who is HIV+. HIV-neg people also have rights to make an “informed choice” to engage or not with someone HIV+ in any type of activity, regardless of perceived “risk” under ideal conditions --accidents can happen. If someone does not know their status when asked, then I would treat them as if they were HIV+ and then not have sex with them. Why can I not have “informed choice” legally guaranteed to me as a free and equal Citizen of Canada? 0 viral load does not mean absolutely none. 0 viral load only means that the instruments are too dull to detect the viral load. There is still a chance of transmission. HIV is no longer a death sentence, but it is still a difficult and expensive life propped up by medication which has side-effects. “Informed Choice” is still the only fair option to reduce the level of HIV transmission in society. That is the main goal.
End-HIV, Toronto Ont
09/15/11 1:50 PM EST
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Zero detectable is uninfectable
Accidents may happen on any city street just crossing the street. Undetectable viral load could be really zero, as a matter of fact it probably is. I told McCaskell when they first went along with HALCO "Guidelines" that their compromise would lead to the criminalization of HIV.This is exceptional in worldwide terms. Where many people have noted that the criminalization of HIV occurs to lesser degrees, no other jurisdiction has prosecuted per capita more people than Canada and particularly Ontario. I told you so McCaskwell!
Canadian Provicialism, Toronto Ontario
09/15/11 2:07 PM EST
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Murray is supporting this?
I just changed my vote.
Patrick, Toronto ON
09/15/11 4:11 PM EST
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Thats rich
...faux outrage by these so-called gay advocacy groups such as Canadian HIV/AIDS Legal Network, who like most HIV/AIDS organizations including HALCO in Toronto have always worked towards, compromised(policy)leading towards or otherwise fully supported the criminalization of gay men with HIV. They are Emperors with no clothes. This of course affects the Gay Men who according to ACT'S own research make-up 70% of positives in Toronto alone. Well done keep it up! Let's just stop the games shall we? Let's just line up by the cattle cars and get it over with. Seriously who are these people?
Chiles, Toronto ON
09/15/11 4:43 PM EST
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Post the document
The article refers to a document submitted on Sept 9 in which the attorney general’s office noted there was “uncertainty and unfairness” in current laws. Xtra should post a copy of the document so that we can all read it.
Ray, Toronto Ontario
09/15/11 5:34 PM EST
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I'm frightend.
I'm Poz and never have sex with Neg people. But I also know history. This scares me. I'm afraid.
Kyle, Toronto ON
09/15/11 5:41 PM EST
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Zero detectable is uninfectable
Zero detectable is uninfectable! This has to heard over and over again.
tim, toronto on
09/16/11 10:18 AM EST
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Let's be clear ... leadership and action are neede
I want to respond to "That's rich." He or she is misinformed. NEITHER HALCO NOR THE CANADIAN HIV/AIDS LEGAL NETWORK HAS EVER SUPPORTED THE CRIMINALIZATION OF HIV. Both have fought the criminalization of HIV-imposed upon us by Canadian courts, acting on police charges and cases brought forward by Crown Prosecutors-for over 15 years. The Supreme Court established the current law. Only the Supreme Court or Parliament can change the law. The wrong-headedness of presuming that the Harper government has an interest in reversing the criminalization of HIV is obvious. HALCO and the Legal Network have fought in court against the criminalization of HIV, and intervened in every significant case. Both organizations have also supported PHAs, community-organizations, health care and other professionals, and criminal defence lawyers. Chile, what have you done? Taking the position that HIV non-disclosure should never be criminalized is important, vital and principled. But it offers nothing to PHAs facing criminal charges, or healthcare and other service providers grappling with how to best serve clients. The push for prosecutorial guidelines is a pragmatic, principled, evidence-informed strategy to restrict the use of the criminal law-to significantly reduce charges and convictions. Ultimately it may not be successful, and may be eclipsed by the Supreme Court's decisions in the Mabior and DC cases. But let's be clear. This is a complex issue and one that will not be addressed by simplistic, dogmatic positions, or by unfairly assigning blame. Let's debate our principles, strategy and actions, since the struggle against the criminalization of HIV is a legal AND political matter. By all means discuss and debate. In the mean time PHAs are being threatened, charged and jailed. Spreading misinformation is not helpful. Showing leadership and taking action is what we need, and precisely what HALCO and the Legal Network have done. Chile, what strategy an actions do you propos
Glenn Betteridge, Toronto Ontario
09/16/11 10:28 AM EST
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Thanks Xtra for posting the document
Thanks Xtra for posting the legal document (the notice of motion to the Supreme Court of Canada) referred to in the article. The more that ordinary LGBTQ people can learn about this issue, the better.
Ray, Toronto Ontario
09/16/11 11:11 AM EST
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Complex issue, yeah right
for us simpletons? No it's not. Perhaps things have changed since Bob Watkin (with principle)resigned as Chair of HALCO in protest over HALCO's support of the criminalization of HIV+ Gay Men? http://www.xtra.ca/public/National/Time_to_stand_against_the_criminalization_of_HIV-7529.aspx--------All your pretty words and deflection and cover may work for the dull, Glenn Betteridge, but to me as an HIV+ man these(your)organizations I consider a threat to my (and ALL gay Mens)well-being and safety! "Taking the position that HIV non-disclosure should never be criminalized is important, vital and principled." Exactly! Yet these organizations support it's criminalization! END OF STORY. It's not complicated. These organizations made a choice, they could have acted as advocates and destroyed the insane notion itself at it's beginning or play with people lives, not rock the boat and "compromise". These organizations made the compromise. Pretty simple. To me as an HIV+ Gay Man, you are not, in my opinion acting in my best interests and well-being, not by a long shot. Where am I misinformed? I would willingly retract untruths. now suck it up and man up to WHAT you are. Thanks for visiting.
Chiles, Toronto ON
09/16/11 11:38 AM EST
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What do you propose?
Chile, I respect your opinion and agree that criminalization of HIV non-disclosure is totally inappropriate. But I do not see in your position any proposed action or strategy beyond taking the public position "never criminalize HIV". How do you propose that the HIV/AIDS community achieve the de-criminalization of sexual non-disclosure/ transmission of HIV, imposed upon us by Canadian courts, enforced by the criminal justice system? Merely opposing criminalization in principle will not help people living with HIV facing criminal charges. You feel threatened, understandably. But your assertion that the threat comes from advocates such as HALCO and the Legal Network makes no sense. Criminal complaints are filed by people who allege HIV non-disclosure; the police investigate and decide whether and what charges to lay; Crown Prosecutors screen charges and decide whether to proceed; and courts determine how to interpret and apply the law. Isn't it the complainants and the criminal justice system actors, not our advocates, that pose the threat? HALCO and the Legal Network have played a central role in the vigourous defence, and thankfully the acquittal, of many people living with HIV who have faced charges. I think that you are ascribing way too much power and influence to HALCO and the Legal Network. Neither HALCO nor the Legal Network had the ability to "destroyed the insane notion itself at it's beginning". Neither has supported the criminalization of HIV non-disclosure. In fact, the Legal Network (along with BCPWA and the Canadian AIDS Society)intervened in the Cuerrier case and argued AGAINST criminalization. The court rejected that argument. I am still left wondering what you propose as a strategy to fight the criminalization of HIV, as imposed upon our communities by the criminal justice system. I am sure there are many people, me included, who have been searching for a way to effectivel
Glenn Betteridge, Toronto Ontario
09/16/11 1:59 PM EST
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What do you propose? (2)
... effectively oppose criminalization.
Glenn Betteridge, Toronto Ontario
09/16/11 2:04 PM EST
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I suggest
that if you are without answers to such complexities that you and your ilk resign your posts. That would a good first step. Or alternatively, bring into these organizations highly educated, high capacity, openly HIV positive proud gay men in positions of authority and policy making. Right now these organizations on mass are keeping them out and it's systemic. Finally I have the answers for you but if you want them, pay up. Why you should you get a salary to do a dismal job and pay me nothing for my valuable experience and policy development? See how threatening you are to HIV+ gay men. Get it? You're spitting in the wind. This conduit is now closed. Good day.
Chiles, Toronto ON
09/16/11 5:12 PM EST
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-0- does not mean absolute -0-
@ THE HIV+ -FREE-SEX LOBBYISTS- If everyone who is HIV+ were on the newest AntiRetovirals and every HIV+ had an actual -0- viral count which actually meant that there were absolutely no viruses in their bodies, then they would be cured of HIV. End of problem. That is not the case. -0- does not mean absolute -0- The possibility of infection remains, even for those who are taking the newest meds. What about those who have reactions to various meds ? There are those who do not have so called -0- viral counts. Whatever the case, if I am having sex with someone who has any communicable disease: HIV, Hepatitis, Tuberculosis, Syphilis... I would like to know before hand, so that I can make an INFORMED CHOICE to engage with them in sex or close activity of any sort. INFORMED CHOICE means knowing the fact of their having a communicable disease regardless of percentages of risk. Withholding those facts of possible contagion and engaging in sex with an unsuspecting person is an act of fraud and/or assault. There are times when a condom will not protect a person from contagion, or can break. Percentage of risk is meaningless if you are the one in a million who is given a disease which can debilitate you for the rest of your life. Let's make it simple. YOU CAN GET HIV ONLY FROM A PERSON WHO HAS HIV. Bruised egos are unfortunate, but the objective is to end the disease. -0- viral count = lower risk? Do you really want to take the risk, even at a “discount rate” of risk? If you are a “Risk Junky” then better play the lottery - at least you can possibly win something.
Informed Choice, Toronto Ont
09/16/11 6:50 PM EST
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In other words, Chiles, you've got nothing
And as for your supposed "experience", yeah, I'm sure all the federal and provincial attorneys general have you on speed dial just waiting to take your lead on this issue.
Patrick, Toronto ON
09/16/11 7:06 PM EST
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It is what it is....
"One of those things is the way HALCO’s Ontario Working Group on Criminal Law and HIV approached the issue of HIV criminalization. Its position that criminalization — criminal charges against HIV-positive people for failure to disclose their serostatus to sex partners — may be called for in some instances is anathema to me. I will not accept it or agree with it." Bob Watkin, on his resignation,Xtra magazine. ----I don't care how it's worded or what people claim their position is. Criminalization is criminalization and support is support. I only care about what these organizations DO. Read the above quote. To suggest these organization do not support criminalization is simply not factual.
Chiles, Toronto Ontario
09/16/11 11:32 PM EST
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Follow the Money!
Who is getting paid at the expense of the HIV+? Whose material resources and social upward mobility is benefiting at the expense of the HIV+? Where is the money coming from?
tim, toronto on
09/17/11 10:50 AM EST
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Follow the money?
Tim, I think you already know the answer to your question: the drug companies are getting the money. It starts when gay men have unprotected sex and turn HIV positive. At a certain point, their doctor will put them on anti-HIV medications. In Ontario, if the gay man is poor, their medications will be paid for by a government drug plan (paid for by taxpayers). If the gay man is employed by an employer with a drug plan, their medications will be paid for by the employer (if it's an employer-insured plan) or by the gay man's fellow employees (if it's a plan where employees pay premiums). I don't think you would want the general public to think too deeply about this.
Bill, Toronto Ontario
09/17/11 11:45 AM EST
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hey Patrick
those who feed and depend on the tit of the state do NOT have me on their speed dial. Their interests and my interests are in-congruent. HIV+ GAY MEN need to stop being EXCLUDED from these so called HIV+ advocacy groups.
Chiles, Toronto ON
09/17/11 6:02 PM EST
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So you've still got nothing...
...to offer those who are facing prison over non-disclosure. Except for typing meaningless twaddle from your computer chair, that is. I'm sure someone looking at hard time is going to feel ever so much better knowing they've got you in their corner fighting for them. Oh, wait, except you're not actually fighting for anything except the right to tear down the work of those of whom you're not even fit to lick the soles of their shoes.
Patrick, Toronto ON
09/18/11 11:16 AM EST
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Attorney general v. Charter rights
Is the Attorney General going to argue that people who do not disclose they have the flu before getting on the streetcar should be prosecuted, since risk is not a factor? Or does this apply only to people with HIV? If so, this is a clear charter violation.
Russell, Toronto Ontario
09/18/11 11:30 AM EST
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Ah Patrick...
"...for anything except the right to tear down the work of those of whom you're not even fit to lick the soles of their shoes." They didn't BUILD anything. They destroyed what was built and claimed to be creators. Two different realities. Thanks for your comment though. You pretty much summed up the cultural phenom of disgust and hatred towards unashamed HIV+ Gay Men in the so-called NGO HIV/AIDS advocacy organizations. Let me be clear, the EXCLUSION of open, unashamed and proud HIV+ Gay Men who according to you "are not even fit to lick the soles of their shoes" of those in these organizations would never have allowed the stupidity that is going on now. It is insane. At this point our only hope is by simply fixing the damage by all these careerists that would NEVER have happened if HIV+ GAY MEN were not excluded in the first place. How to do that? This is not the forum for that. But I suggest those who have failed the HIV+ community miserably, resign immediately. That is one answer. What's gonna happen. We may end up in prison? Stop the harm. Stop the damage. I'm just sayin is all.
Chiles, Toronto ON
09/18/11 11:34 AM EST
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Russell, OMG!
You sound like an unashamed and proud Gay Man with independent thought. Do not under any circumstances expose yourself to the HIV/AIDS advocacy organizations. ....If I get a cold because some idiot decides to twaddle around town all day putting my health at risk, which could then turn to Pneumonia, which can then easily turn into DEATH, (easier then any so called HIV transmission from an undetectable partner)what happens to these dimwits? They should be imprisoned for putting my health at risk, immediately. Attempted murder and assault I say.
Chiles, Toronto ON
09/18/11 12:02 PM EST
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Newsflash
There are HIV+ gay men at all levels of those organizations you hold in so much contempt. Oh, wait, don't tell me, they don't count because they don't hold the same warped world view as you do.
Patrick, Toronto ON
09/18/11 12:27 PM EST
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Yes there are Patrick
and minorities are everywhere on the front lines in Banks. The power of course is upstairs. But illusion sells to the dull. Patrick I'm only interested in UNASHAMED OPENLY HIV+ GAY MEN and their inclusion that is representative of their infection rates of approx:70%. I know EXACTLY how many there are in positions of authority, policy development or program service delivery in these organizations. I'm an unashamed openly HIV+ Gay Men and I reference these truths to support what you call my "warped world view". Your contempt for my kind has been made clear. At least I ask that you try to do no harm. You are given a sacred duty to take care of those who place much trust in you and the organizations which you support. Many of your clients are truly weakened, vulnerable and dying. Please be careful, it hasn't been going so good in this instance so far. Thank you.
Chiles, Toronto ON
09/18/11 12:49 PM EST
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Just as I thought...
...any "unashamed openly HIV+ gay man" who doesn't think like you doesn't count. You clearly have no room for any viewpoint or approach that is not in absolute lockstep with your own. Fine then, enjoy yourself indulging in your rants at the computer screen while to rest of us unashamed openly HIV+ gay men actually work to get something done. And if all you can manage is to snipe away from the sidelines where you obviously chosen to spend your wasted life, then it's YOU that need to stay out of our way.
Patrick, Toronto ON
09/18/11 1:00 PM EST
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It's so simple
It's so simple - before you fuck a guy, you tell him whether or not, to the best of your knowledge, you are HIV+. If your positive and you don't, you are an an asshole. If you infect someone, you are a murderer. HIV still kills. Finally: "What is sex?" Please, take your esoteric arguments and shove them up your arse, we all know what transmits HIV and what doesn't.
Michel, Montreal Quebec
09/19/11 7:42 AM EST
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So Michel
with that logic, if you knowingly walk around with the flu and INFECT me then YOU are a murderer. I am much more at risk for death from your infection and it's complications than HIV. It's so simple.
simpleton, toronto on
09/19/11 9:44 AM EST
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Simpleton
Simpleton, unless you walk around accidentally inserting your unprotected penis into unsuspecting people's anuses, your comparison is completely ridiculous and irrelevant.
Michel, Montreal QC
09/19/11 12:19 PM EST
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That's the point, Michel
Maybe you didn't read the article all the way through, Michel. "We all know what transmits HIV and what doesn't." That's exactly what's missing from the Attorney General's position above. They are arguing that ALL non-disclosure should be against the law, regardless of how risky it is. Which is McCaskell's point. If we're going to criminalize all sexual contact regardless of how risky it is, where do we draw the line?
Phil, Toronto Ontario
09/20/11 12:25 AM EST
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Consultation?
THis is the diametric opposite of consultation. This is Draconian and ridiculous! End of!
Andrew James Paterson, Toronto Ontario
09/21/11 9:51 AM EST
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Time for calmer heads
I'm so tired of this "criminalization of HIV" construct. Are laws against rape the criminalization of sex? No. Do laws against rape sometimes get non-rapists in trouble, because these things are subjective? Yes, of course. That's why we have juries and judges - to parse the details. Sex assault laws are about informed consent, and information is central to the idea consent. I'm nervous too at what appears to be policy-making on the fly, so let's make good policy, but stop with the 80s-style angry AIDS grandstanding that assumes a grand conspiracy. They're not trying to round us up and corral us all in concentration camps, and you'll never convince me of it. And Tim McAskell? Really? Is he going to implicate Israel too? The guy is a rent-a-rant.
Hussein Pseudonym, Aleppo Syria
09/22/11 2:42 AM EST
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Undisclosed HIV+ Sex Assault is not just Gay
2 separate Heterosexuals were recently apprehended for undisclosed HIV+ status in having unprotected sex with multiple partners after previous court convictions for the same. One is a woman living in Barrie, who in 2005 was convicted of aggravated sexual assault, for nondisclosure of her HIV+ status while having unprotected sex with a soldier at CFB Borden. She served her sentence, but was recently reported again of having unprotected sex with several men and not disclosing her status. An Ontario man was also previously convicted of the same charge and out on parole when he was back in jail Sept 22 for violating his parole by having unprotected sex with several women and not telling them that he was HIV+. So for all the Gay pro HIV+ lobbyists: “HIV+ sex assault ain't a Gay thing anymore.” How do you stop the spread of HIV when stupid people keep doing the same immoral thing of unprotected sex and not disclosing their HIV+ status, even after they have gone through a court conviction and incarceration? What does it take for some of these people to understand that they have a moral obligation to stop the spread of HIV and that means NO unprotected sex and YES disclosure of their HIV+ status. The AIDS Committee's “soft-sell campaigns” just don't get to some people. Here is a perfect example. Should people like this, Gay or Straight, be jailed for life or executed, since “counselling” is beyond their intellectual or moral capacity, but they are still out doing harm?
HIV Question, Toronto Ont
09/22/11 5:37 AM EST
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Accountibilaty
For crying out loud! How much more of this progressive Ontario Liberal government can we take. They have squashed sex ed changes, fail to support GSAs in Catholic schools, Trans rights in the Human Rights code and now advance the effort to criminalise HIV. As a gay man this indicates to me, they are only slightly better than Hudak. At least Hudak won't tell me he is my friend then stab me in the back. Please attend the 519 debate tonight and demand Glen Murray defend our interests rather than the queerphobic Liberal government.
Rick Barnes, Toronto Ontario
09/22/11 9:46 AM EST
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2% of Population = Gay = 61% of new HIV infections
“examining what can be done to reverse the high rates of new HIV infection among Black gay and bisexual men....The epidemic continues to affect Black America disproportionately: Forty-four percent of all new infections occurred among African Americans, who make up only about 13 percent of the population. And gay and bisexual men, who make up only an estimated 2 percent of the population, accounted for 61 percent of all new HIV infections in 2009. Young Black gay and bi men -- "men who have sex with men" (MSM), in public health jargon -- ages 13 to 29 experienced the greatest increases, with infection rates skyrocketing by more than 48 percent.” ________ http://www.thebody.com/content/64066/reversing-the-alarming-hiv-increase-among-black-ga.html _____ HIV has to be stopped regardless of bruised egos!!!
Stop HIV, toronto Ont
09/23/11 7:26 AM EST
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I suggest the Gay's
consider the risk they are being placed in with the conservatives new crime bill. Perhaps a history book or two might get you thinking?
tim, toronto on
09/23/11 10:20 AM EST
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Psychos preying on Idiots
GAY = 2% of the population = 61% of new HIV infections. We did this to each other. Neither the current Canadian government nor historical fascist governments did this to them. We did this to each other. When I see these figures and I hear HIV+ lobbyists whining about bruised egos, it makes me mad. The bottom line: 1. WE GET HIV FROM SOMEONE WHO HAS HIV. 2. ANYONE WHO KNOWINGLY HAS A COMMUNICABLE DISEASE HAS A MORAL OBLIGATION TO NOT SPREAD IT. 3. PRROTECT YOURSELF. HIV is no longer a death sentence but a lifelong sentence of some suffering. Still not glamourous. The HIV organizations' messages have not worked well enough. Lowered “risk” of infection means green-light to some people. There are still Psychos preying on Idiots out there. Drugs and booze lowers inhibitions and helps spread diseases. We need more help. The Government and courts must intervene with judicial sentences. Let's see if that will work in actuality not projections and conjectures. The main objective is to get rid of HIV. If we can't do it socially, if the scientists can't do it yet, we need help from the courts and Harper's new jails.
Moral Obligation, Toronto Ont
09/23/11 4:57 PM EST
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To - Moral Obligation
Ridiculous.
tim, toronto on
09/23/11 6:30 PM EST
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Asking nicely has not stopped the infections.
GAY = 2% of the population = 61% of new HIV infections. That is ridiculous. Asking nicely has not stopped the infections. We need a new approach. The social and physical threat of jail may work better than some abstract fear of catching an invisible virus. The AIDS/HIV associations who teach the public should give more explicit instructions in their messages. Half the population does not have the intelligence to understand subtle messages. They need concrete instruction. HIV+ people should not have unprotected sex and should not allow anyone to have unprotected sex with them even if the other one is willing. People have the right to know if they are engaging in sex with someone who is HIV+ That is called informed choice.
Enough, Toronto Ont
09/24/11 10:25 PM EST
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Condemnation of the Criminalization of HIV
I walked into HALCO as a former client: Do you condemn the criminalization of HIV. Yes or No. I walked into my doctor: Do you condemn the criminalization of HIV. Yes or No. I walked into Pride Toronto and I asked do you condemn the criminalization of HIV. Yes or No. I walked into the 51 Precinct and I asked: Do you condemn the criminalization of HIV: Yes or No. I walked into the Metropolitan Community Church and I asked: Do you condemn the criminalization of HIV. Yes or No. More Nos than Yeses. My doctor naturally but then the medical community in Canada has not really stood up to witness to the facts. Zero detectable is unifectable. Canada is a frightening place for people with HIV to live. You need to all apply for refugee status in th USA, they will probably accept you. Most definitely because of recent history with Ontario and it's totally corrupt legal system.
Do You Condemn the Criminalization of HIV, Toronto Ontario
09/24/11 10:40 PM EST
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Only HIV+ people can stop the spread of HIV
“Zero Detectable Is Unifectable.” Nice slogan. Are you a medical researcher with proof of that slogan and corroborated by all HIV researchers in the world? Are there people who are HIV+ who are not “Zero Detectable”? Whatever the case another slogan has more moral and legal relevance: “Informed Consent.” And just in case, if “Zero Detectable” is 1 million to one chance of “infectable,” would you take the chance of infecting another human being? Does your moral compass point to “self-centred”? Gay=2% of the population but = 61% of new infections. The infections come from somewhere. Obviously there is “INFECTABLE” happening. It is truly unfortunate that you have HIV. I know through my closest friends who are HIV+ how many ways you are suffering. But HIV has to be stopped. One can get HIV only from someone who has HIV. Only HIV+ people can stop the spread of HIV, one way or another.
STOP HIV, Toronto Ont
09/25/11 1:22 AM EST
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TO: STOP HIV
-------One can get HIV only from someone who has HIV. Only HIV+ people can stop the spread of HIV, one way or another.--------Hmnn? The world has heard this before. I've heard this before! I KNOW YOU,I've SEEN YOU before.
tim, toronto on
09/25/11 11:39 AM EST
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New infections can only come from HIV+ people
So what if you've seen me before. What I say makes sense. What you say is abstract idealism that you are trying to force on an unwilling population. Your idealisms are facilitating the spread of HIV. INFORMED CHOICE -- IS THE ONLY REAL CHOICE of engaging in sex with a partner. If a choice is made to engage with someone in sex, because the HIV+ person lied or withheld their status, that is called fraud. Fraud is an indictable offence --as it should be. There is still risk associated with HIV+ sex. Even if the risk is 1 in one million, the unlucky one has a lifetime of misery. Do you want to foist onto anyone else what what happened to you? There are still new infections happening they can only come from HIV+ people. Does that not make sense to you?
good sense, Toronto Ont
09/25/11 5:07 PM EST
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