Club Toronto closes
TORONTO NEWS / Everybody out of the pool!
Scott Dagostino / Toronto / Thursday, April 01, 2010
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“Closed Forever!” reads the sign scrawled in red marker on a plain sheet of paper taped to the door of Club Toronto on Mutual St.

Famous for its outdoor pool, infamous as the site of the 2000 Pussy Palace police raid, the venerable downtown Toronto bathhouse closed abruptly on the morning of April 1. Calls to the club went unanswered, and emails bounced back as workmen tore out the insides of the place. 

“It’s being gutted,” says one of them, hauling planks of wood past the pool. Another, also declining to be identified, shrugs and says, “I didn’t even know it was a bathhouse…. I thought it was just a boarded-up place.”
 
Peter Bochove, owner of another nearby bathhouse, Spa Excess, laughs when he hears this.

“Those workmen are actually the owners,” he says. “I knew Club Toronto was closing before they did.” 

Bochove got his start in the bathhouse business at Club Toronto in 1973. He says he sent former owner and boss Peter Moloney an email recently that read, “I finally put you guys out of business!” 

The club, he says, has had “ongoing difficulties” in a market that’s become increasingly constricted in an era of online pickups. If business has been tough on everyone, Bochove says, it was especially difficult for Rick Armstrong, who bought Club Toronto in 2005 but, according to Bochove, “had no money to fix it up.”
 
CLOSED FOREVER? Club Toronto finally gave up the ghost on April 1.

“I can’t imagine the expense of running a place like that,” says Goodhandy's nightclub co-owner Todd Klinck. “Just the hydro bills at my club are so high!”

Klinck says he hasn’t been to Club Toronto since he wrote about it in his guide to Toronto bathhouses for fab magazine in March of 2008. He awarded the place “best overall facilities” in a previous 2003 review, but in 2008, he wrote, “I found it chilly and drafty, reeking of cigarette and pot smoke, and populated solely by staff and two hustlers.”

Still, says Klinck,  “It was pretty cool having an outdoor pool where you could be naked and have sex…. It was an icon of Toronto.”
 
Given the state of the club in recent years, it feels like a mercy killing. The workman (owner?) now gutting the place says, “I do heritage restoration sites and I gotta say, it’s a shithole inside.”
 
But what is Club Toronto, housed in a 122-year-old historical site, being restored into? Under the direction of a man choosing to remain silent and inside the building, one of the workmen/owners says it will reopen in two months as a swingers' club.

“Two months?” exclaims the second worker. “We’ll still be ripping it apart!” 


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Reader Comments


 
Club was a real icon of 70's and 80's Gay Toronto!
A little more history here! This was one of the main bathouses for a long time (70's. 80's especially) , famous for its third floor wild orgy room. which was always very busy The Club was originally owned by a group that included (to varying degrees and times) Rick Stenhouse (longtime owner of Crispins and the old "Buddies" bar) George Hislop, Peter Maloney, Bob Grimson ("QUEST" owner), and the original US Club chain founders. It was one of the tubs raided and almost destroyed by police in the bath house raids of "No More Shit" fame in the early 80's. An icon of LGBT Toronto for sure!
james Dubro, toronto ontario
04/02/10 10:07 AM EST
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Club was central to Toronto gay activist movement
If memory serves me right, most of the 100's of gay people arrested as "found ins" in the thuggish cop bathhouse raids of 1981 were at the Club Baths and several of its "owners" (e.g. Hislop, Maloney and others) were charged with conspiracy to "live off the avails of crime." Indeed this place is quite central to the gay activist movement in Toronto in more ways than one (that is there were many raids and much organized LGBT resistance to them over decades.)
james Dubro, toronto ontario
04/02/10 10:34 AM EST
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Sad ending
I wanted to clarify that I knew Club Toronto had serious financial difficulties and I fully expected the landlord, who is also the landlord for Spa Excess, to take the action he did. I did not find out that it had actually closed until the deed was done. As Todd says, it is incredibly expensive to operate a bathhouse. Gas, water, electricity, property taxes, rent, payroll and, above all, repair and maintenance take a huge toll on the gross income. It becomes a question of who you pay first if the revenue isn't there to pay everyone. Needless to say, the money to advertise and promote is also not there so it becomes increasingly difficult to slow the downward spiral, let alone stop it and turn things around. Rick Armstrong did the best he could with what he had and my heart goes out to him and to the people who worked there, many for years, who are now unemployed. As James Dubro points out, Maloney's Club Toronto was a significant part of the gay activist movement in Toronto. Club Toronto was a historic venture built and marketed to be exactly what it was. In Toronto, it blew the industry out of the closet, deliberately. Not a happy day for Rick and his staff, not a happy day for the community. Peter Bochove
Peter Bochove, Toronto Ontario
04/02/10 1:34 PM EST
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I remember when
Thirty-eight years ago I was renting a room at 93 Carlton St. from Olga Mullins, when I had a conversation with her brother, John Conforzi, about turning the prospective "massage parlour" he was building in the basement into a gay steam bath. I approached a couple of the owners of the U.S. Club Bath chain, and we proceeded to build Club Toronto.
Peter Maloney, Waterloo ON
04/02/10 5:50 PM EST
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The Club was legendary but it's time had come
As much history and activism around the Club there is and has been, it was a place whose time had come (and then some). It had a pretty good run given all the early obstacles. And it had a golden period in the late 70's and early 80's--always packed and always fun (when the cops weren't raiding it as they did up through the 90's with the "pussy palace" debacle.) Funny, John Conforzi (always a though straight man he was a good and loyal one) was also my landlord when I ran the used bookstore "James Dubro Books" on Gerrard and Church (And Rick Stenhouse's at Crispins where my store ironically was located). Small world. Like Peter, I empathize with the the owner and current staff now without employment. But nothing goes on forever--even a legendary place (well except maybe the Barn in its various incarnations). Perhaps a bit more should be written about the history around this seminal place that has now "Closed forever" ? RIP Club Toronto!
james Dubro, toronto ontario
04/02/10 6:40 PM EST
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like the windmills in my mind
Club Toronto has the dubious distinction of being the first bathhouse I ever had sex in and was also where I discovered the art of the mini-holiday. Not only will be it missed by me for this and many other memories but even more alarming is where will I swim nekkid this summer? Mind you I'm sure I can 'swing'...
Tim Lewis, Toronto Ontario
04/05/10 1:43 AM EST
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Club Toronto: Women/Trans Folk Friendly
It was also one of the only clubs that opened it's doors to women/trans bathhouse events. When all the other misogynist gay clubs were denying women temporary access to space for reasons that can only be described as misogynist (women would somehow drive customers away if they rented the space for ONE night!)--Club Toronto, opened it's doors without question and accommodated this annual event for almost 10 years. It will be interesting to see if other bathhouses will finally get over there phobias about women and finally think outside the box. Central Spa has also been progressive around this issue. But really--only two bathhouses that men are willing to share?! And sadly, now only one.
Maria-Belen Ordonez, Toronto Ontario
04/06/10 5:17 PM EST
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sad newse
I spent a few summers in Toronto from 2003 - 2005 and although Club Toronto was shabby in places it was a friendly place to hang out and felt more social than simply a sex joint like some other local clubs. It was great to hang around an outside pool and be treated to a burger buffet on a sunday afternoon. I was looking forward to another visit :(
edwardtrunk, London England
04/06/10 7:23 PM EST
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Was A Favourite of Mine
Was a favorite of mine . It had no atitude. As an older guy I never felt I was out of place. The staff were freindly and helpful. I always would recomend it to visitors. Well like us guy's hair. nothing lasts forever. But I will miss it.
Mike, Toronto Ontario
04/07/10 12:45 PM EST
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Sweet memories...
All good things end eventually. And so does Club Toronto. I remember when it first opened. It was so different than The Library bathouse on Wellesley and so much fun! After my go-go dancing gig at the Manatee, Wayne Young (another dancer) and myself would end up there. The place was clean and buzzing with activities. The snack bar had homemade tasty snack and a jukebox close by playing The Monotones: Who Wrote The Book Of Love and Wayne dancing his ass off to it! Wednesday night had Super 8 XXX movie showing in the lounge and it was packed of men in towels who were in a rather awkward "position" after the showing trying to look sweet and innocent .... The top floor orgy room with the mirror ball and huge round shaggy carpeted bed was famous but did host those nasty crawlies too... Those were the days and a big part of our gay history... Dearly missed and not forgotten!
Andre Tardif, Montreal Qc
04/09/10 10:56 PM EST
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the end of my start
For those of you who knew me this was my first bathouse and the start for me on a quest that lasted 20 years and alot of good friends whom I,ve met along the way thank you club Toronto for the memories.
Mason, kitchener ontario
04/10/10 9:02 AM EST
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get a freaking job lady!
Maria-Belen Ordonez -- one reply: build your own bathhouse!!! What a sense of obnoxious entitlement that gay men who pay all that money to create what gay men want would just turn it over to you (women and trans) because it is "your turn". Do you want their homes and bank accounts also. I presume no women or trans people are capable of raising money and biulding their own place (which you already have in Goodhandys and in the upcoming swing club!). Victim whining and gay male bashing are always so refreshing at Xtra. Pathetic! btw I recall reading in Xtra few years ago about another women and trans bath house but it refused entrance to white women because they went to the bathroom differently -- the article is somewhere in the archives here!
disgusted again, Toronto ON
04/10/10 12:53 PM EST
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Not understanding it
Re: disgusted again Disgusted again, you're not getting the point of what Maria-Belen Ordonez is saying. When you are female and there are a plethora of bathhouses around but almost none you are welcomed into its hard to feel that things are on an even keel with women's and men's bathhouses. One starts to feel suspicious of mysogyny even if one cant prove it. Why is it that women can share men's spaces but not vice versa? It seems to be a bit of a double standard. I think its a bit presumptuous to think that women wanting bathhouse space want a simple handout and are unwilling to support the building of one.
secondthat, Toronto ON
04/11/10 11:01 PM EST
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the entitlement of a child mind
secondthat -- you are kidding of course. You disrespect gay men so much when we are less than 2% of the male population and have been killed for millenia and FINALLY some of us are able to open sex spaces for gay men to use (businesses backed with blood sweat and money) and you equate this to some kind of "women's issue"?!? What Gender Studies nursary school have you been spending your parents' dollars in all these years? YOU do not GET IT at all and nothing can ever tell you otherwise. This is the product of LBTGQ -- the hate on and mocking and spitting on gay men as "misogynists" by selfish entitled professional victims like you. Vile!
disgusted even more, toronto ON
04/12/10 1:12 PM EST
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ps
btw please show me any males or men (not including trans peoples) who were welcomed to the Pussy Palace??? Can I have their names. When you provide them, then you can state that men are allowed in women's spaces. They are mututally exclusive because they want to be on both sides -- get it?!?
disgusted beyond belief, toronto ON
04/12/10 1:18 PM EST
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Hold it
I read Maria's comment and I was taken aback, because it came from her. She is a woman for whom I have enormous respect. For the record, Spa Excess said no to a women's bathhouse night because we never close our doors to our regular customers. We turned down the opportunity to have our placed used for scenes in "Queer as Folk" for the same reason, they wanted our place closed. We don't hate women or television producers, we have a business model that works very well for us in a market place that has become increasingly competitive. We will not close our doors to our regular customers now or at any time in the future, unless it is permanently. I would also like to add, when the Pussy Palace was raided, Spa Excess was the first business to hand over a cheque to help pay the lawyers. Odd behaviour if Maria's comment was correct. The women who put the Pussy Palace together are a brave and committed bunch and I understand their frustration. I don't think that should cause anyone to be disgusted. The decision we made here at Spa Excess is simply business. That the decision frustrates Maria I fully understand. That she writes it off to a hatred of women escapes me because I think she knows better. There is nothing at all disgusting about Maria's frustration. I get it and I hope the rest of you cut her some slack. I say again, we said no because we never ever close our doors to our regular customers. Those guys are the reason we eat. We intend to keep on eating.
Peter Bochove, Toronto Ontario
04/12/10 2:55 PM EST
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Get Over Yourself
The Women's bathhouse allows women and trans folk - MTF AND FTM - both a place to be sexual. FTM trans folk should be allowed in the men's bathhouse. The Pussy Palace has bathhouse between 1-3x a YEAR. Not everyday in multiple locations. So Disgusted - you can go shove your stuff in plenty of glory holes all day long probably 365 days a year in your choice of venue. And what is it that women have - nothing. We don't really care if men are disgusted that there is 'pussy' in their space. We need sex too. The 4 basic human needs are: Water, Food, Shelter and Sex. Note: I did not say basic needs of men only. Sorry to say but Goodhandy's is not a safe environment - I tried to have a hook-up there in a booth when I got interrupted by 7 men with their pants down ready for a turn. I was terrified. We do not want to share a place with men at the same time as men - we need a place where we are safe. A swingers club - if that includes men - then please read above. I understand that the larger bathhouses like Spa Excess and probably Steamworks do not wish to take a financial hit by closing BUT - really - what do we have left. Central spa - has absolutely no cruising room. We would gladly build our own but much to MY dismay - a poll was done. Conclusion: women are not likely to attend bathhouses more than 4x a year. So Disgusting: if you would like to pay for the place so we can use it 4x a year go for it - be my guest. Your penis isn't the only thing that matters in the world - try thinking with your brain - maybe then you might understand the words SHARING and EQUALITY. Peter - are you saying by offering the space 3x a year - you can't feed yourself. HOW MUCH DO YOU EAT?!
Senna, Mississauga Ontario
04/12/10 4:11 PM EST
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LOL!
Good shot Senna, good shot. I'm pretty hefty and I'm going to stay that way. :-)
Peter Bochove, Toronto Ontario
04/12/10 5:25 PM EST
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victim whining and blaming
"senna" -- 2 comments: I cannot believe that a pansexual trans club like Goodhandy's would not give 4 nights of the year to a no men evening -- ask them here publicaly and let's hear their pansexual reply and 2) I cannot believe that every time women and trans talk about bathhouses they do so from a emotional attack position and never from a business point of view -- whining victimhood is so much fun and you are never wrong and get to scream at a lot of people. Certainly more fun that organizing something for women on your own without attacking men's bathhouse business owners!
disgusted and incredulous, toronto ON
04/13/10 11:02 AM EST
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Put Up or Shut Up
If woman want their own places for 'hook ups' and 'sex', go ahead and invest and build your own places to play ! Why the hell should current, operating bathhouses provide you with your own night(s) after they have invested and worked hard to build their business ? Put up or shut up. Invest your own money and time.
Jeff Taylor, Toronto Ontario
04/13/10 12:17 PM EST
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Basic Human Needs
re:- Senna's comment about the four basic human needs:- Sorry, sweetie, but the six basic human needs are Air, Water, Food, Clothing, Shelter, and a safe comfortable place to poop (ie Toilets). (If you really do not believe the part about Air then try doing without it for the next few minutes and see how far you get!). Sex is nice but not really a must-have. (Honestly, you really will not die without it even after years of enforced abstinence. (I know this all too well!!!) Many guys seem to get along just fine without toilets since they tend to store poop in their underwear until their wives find it and deal with it but who wants to be a skank and not everyone has wife! Public Transit is also very useful but us fairies generally fly everywhere we want to go (smile!). (When was the last time you saw Tinkerbelle on a bus?) It's obvious that a women's bathhouse is not practical because the whole bathhouse culture is designed for the male psyche and not for the female psyche. Lesbian women need meeting places specifically designed for their needs and preferences and this does not include wandering around naked looking for a quick score. Women tend to be much more into relationships than sex per se. However it would also help if they were more prepared to spend a little bit of money on patronizing such establishments so that someone could make a basic living in providing the necessary meeting places. Perhaps you could start a lesbian-friendly knitting-circle? (Question:- Do butch lesbians knit?) (Femmy gay guys certainly do!).
Yours Truly, Toronto Ontario
04/13/10 6:39 PM EST
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be careful what you demand
I cannot believe this. "Queer" identified women and transpeople have claimed this logic: LBGTQ includes every member of every letter therefore all these people should have equal access to everything every individual letter has. So if the G has bathhouses, the LBTQ must have access since this is queer space. Someone opens a true LBGTQ Queer panpoly space which one would assume would be heralded as Heaven by the LBTQ queers. Now Goodhandy's the queer temple of inclusivity is not good enough. We don't like it -- it's queer but men are there wanting sex. Queer men. In queer space. Just like you wanted -- queer space. But you don't want it like THAT. Whining children throwing tantrums. Now you look like ridiculous professional victims. Satisfied? No people like you never are. Pathetic!!!
irony on irony, toronto ON
04/14/10 11:04 AM EST
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Really Selfish
To Peter: if you really eat that much - then maybe fasting for 3 days would do you some good - really are you that selfish! To disgusted and incredulous, since you cannot read - goodhandy's is gross. Business point of view - really - like I wrote - you pay for a space that we can use 4x a year and lay vacant the rest and I'm in. Women won't build one of our own because the interest in having a 365 day bathhouse is not there. I am sure women are willing to pay more for entry - I am aware that this will not cover the loss of income of a regular mens night (as the prices are outrages). Really - make another suggestion - a real one instead of attacking women. To Jeff Taylor, clearly you cannot read - I won't re-write what has already been written because of your handicap! To Yours Truly, oh my ----- how terrible of me I forgot oxygen!!! Sex is a basic need - see though grouchy people that never get laid - my point. I cannot speak for all women but I hate knitting - there is already a ridiculous knitting club. Don't generalize women - that's called stereotyping. If you do not like the stigmas surrounding gay men and do not wish for them to be used. Then do not stereotype women. We are only asking for 3-4 nights a year. That's not really a lot to ask for. To irony on irony: look at goodhandy's website - you can point out the place that has women and trans-guy nights for me. THERE ISN'T ONE. AT ALL, there used to be - but is no longer. I am asking for 3-4 nights and you are too selfish?!?! Again, we will not 'invade' your space if you provide a place for us - because it is not feasible to get a place for 3-4 nights a week. To Everyone: I do not agree with segregation - this is for gay men, this for trans - unless safety is concerned. So stop being so damn selfish - I'm sure the women's bathhouse committee would be willing to do some fund raising to help cover some more of the costs.
Senna, Mississauga Ontario
04/14/10 5:35 PM EST
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Again
IronyonIrony, are you trying to say that queer people don't have a right to look critically at their lives? I hope not but this is what your comment seems like. Women do want and like sex outside of committed relationships so safe places to have sex are needed. All of the comments that say that everything comes from a "business" standpoint and just shut up and put up your own funds sound alot like the kinds of arguments that were directed towards queers in general prior to a more general acceptance of gays in the larger society. Just the way I see it.
secondthat, Toronto Ontario
04/16/10 12:04 AM EST
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When will the dykes quit this issue?
Every time a gay bathhouse succumbs to the pressure and lets in the dykes it's the beginning if the end. Women killed Friction in Vancouver, women killed Sauna 63 in Ottawa, and letting in females is responsible for the deaths of two gay men in a Winnipeg bathhouse. When will you cunts understand that gay men don't you in our spaces? Start your own spaces and leave us alone.
ron, Vancouver Bc
04/16/10 1:21 AM EST
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To Ron
If you do not like pussy - then go another day - why is that so difficult for you to understand. Give me your mailing address and I will send you the bill when I find the appropriate venue for women - that we will only be using 3-4x a year but because men (aka you) are too selfish to share. YOU can PAY for all of it for us. THANKS SO MUCH FOR VOLUNTEERING!!! Have a great day!
Senna, Mississauga Ontario
04/16/10 10:57 AM EST
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hysterics now
secondthat -- the way you see it is WRONG. You have been brainwashed -- are you a former Christian? senna -- the irony of you calling others selfish because you cannot get your own way -- and then throwing public tantrums and foot stamping and hysterics -- gay men ARE selfish. We do not WANT trans and women in our sex spaces. Those who do throw private parties where the vaginas fly. Get a life and find another group to vent your deranged fury at. Why do you hate gay men so much? Got nothing better to do with your time?
give em enough rope, toronto ON
04/18/10 12:17 PM EST
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Era of Online pick ups????
I thought bathhouses were closing cause most of the young gay men these days learned the less of the 70's, 80's and 90's, that going to some dingy gross place and having way to much anonymous sex will give you HIV/AIDS...Just a guess...lol
Chris, Edmonton Alberta
04/18/10 3:04 PM EST
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No good thing
Reading through the comments (for my sociology course), it is quite evident that the so-called queer community is rife with confusion, and in-born hostility--results of your unsatisfactory sexual misdirections. Proof that straying from the heterosexual norm is no good thing for anyone.
Shawna, Peterborough Ontario
04/18/10 3:09 PM EST
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Women won't spend
Women don't like to spend money the way men do. I Toronto their used to be Lesbian bars but they closed up for the lack of women that would spend money when they got there. Women don't have the same mind set as men (thank God for that). So Senna if you want a bath house open one up. But it seems that every time a male venue opens up some women are jellous of its popularity and want to invade our privacy. Senna...get a life. Obviously you don't have one because you live in Mississauga.
Terry, Toronto Ont.
04/18/10 3:28 PM EST
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FYI
I do not hate gay men. Most of them are great people. Shame on the few assholes - aka most of the posters here. I am not jealous of a gay male bathhouse popularity - that actually sounds pretty ridiculous. I just want a place where I can find and sleep with other women - and I don't see how letting women use a male space (as women won't open their own for 3-4x/year of usage) is so difficult. Terry, thank you very much. I have a great life, always busy and surrounded by lots of love from friends and family. Using my city of residence to judge the quality of my life is a pretty immature not to mention prejudice. I would refrain from judging others and jumping to ridiculous conclusions - human respect and equality is a much better way to live your life.
Senna, Mississauga Ontario
04/18/10 6:49 PM EST
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entitlement is a 2 way street
senna and other women/trans/queer peoples who claim bathhouse owning business men should "give" them 4 nights of the year and gay men should support this: Here is a deal. I presume you are housed -- you list Mississauga as an address so I presuming you live in housing. If you do and if the other queer people wanting their 4 days a year are also housed, then you give up your housing for 4 days of the year, and we will let homeless people live there while you are gone. Just stay with a friend and homeless people can get out of the rain and cold and enjoy the power and privilege which you are trying to shame gay men with. How about that for fair play. Thought not. Professional whining and victimhood is so easy from the comforts of bourgeois life eh? Hypocrites!
one last thing, toronto ON
04/19/10 10:04 AM EST
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FYI
I have a room in a house for about 2 weeks - I have no say on what happens to this house. Therefore your post was a waste of time.
Senna, Mississauga Ontario
04/20/10 9:40 PM EST
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