An altered activism
INTERVIEW / Sociologist Gary Kinsman on the emergence of the neoliberal queer
Jonathan Valelly / Toronto / Thursday, January 31, 2013
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The values of queer activism have changed, according to long-time activist and sociologist Gary Kinsman. Kinsman looks at why, and how, in two upcoming Toronto lectures, titled The Making of the Neo-Liberal Queer and Queering Heterosexism in the Social Form of Legal and State Formation.
 
Xtra chatted with Kinsman ahead of the lectures.  
 
Xtra: What do you mean by the "neoliberal queer?" What interests you about this figure?
Gary Kinsman: There are two terms that have begun to be used by people in the context of queer theory and activism to describe the assimilation of larger layers of queer people into the existing order: there's “homonormativity,” popularized by Lisa Duggan, describing the sort of middle-class normalness that becomes dominant within our communities and cultures. The other term, “homonationalism,” comes from Jasbir Puar. It describes how some lesbians and gay men in Western and northern countries come to identify with their nation state as the liberator of queer people and how gay rights and women's rights have been deployed to justify the war in Afghanistan, the occupation in Iraq, and Western opposition to the Palestinian struggle for self-determination. I'm trying to identify the social process that leads to this major shift in queer politics.
 
What are some examples of that process?
If we are serious about dealing with the heterosexism and transphobia that young queer people face in the school system, it requires doing far more than having GSAs, says Gary Kinsman.
(David P Ball)
First of all is the shift from the liberation movement to a movement focusing on questions of rights. The people who originally articulated the human rights strategy for the LGBT movement were radical, political people who thought of it as simply a tactic. The emphasis on "rights" now actually undermines the more transformative commitments of those earilier activists. Another instance would be the bath raids in Toronto. That movement was led by grassroots and bar people but ended up producing a new professional, managerial, gay middle class. They became the dominant voice for our community, obscuring the class politics. We moved in the direction of formal legal equality and left aside all our concerns for substantive social equality. I don't want to reduce the significance of [legal equality], but it does shift the character of our movement.
 
So has the discourse of "rights" exhausted its potential?
You have this contradiction of, on the one hand, being formally and legally equal to heterosexuals and, on the other hand, the heterosexist terror that young people face on the streets and schools. We've made remarkable progress, but we certainly haven’t achieved liberation.
 
One example: if we are serious about dealing with the heterosexism and transphobia that young queer people face in the school system, it requires doing far more than having GSAs, far more than talking about transformations of the curriculum, far more than an anti-bullying campaign. High schools remain the training grounds for the reproduction of hegemonic heterosexual masculinity in society. We're not getting at the social roots of violence.
 
Is that happening anywhere?
There are pockets of especially young, queer people critical of the mainstream movement who are actually fighting queer liberation battles. But what they're doing is tied up with anti-poverty struggles, migrant rights, other movements.
 
How do those types of coalitions work? For instance, how could non-aboriginal queer people work in solidarity with a native movement like Idle No More?
How do we create a queer politic that responds to the needs of all people? There are lots of queer and two-spirited indigenous people involved in that movement, as well as lots of white settler queer people. So how do we actually do that? There's a balancing act between a commitment to how our queerness is bound up with all of these other social movements and at the same time always trying to develop autonomous or specific queer politics around that. It's not easy.
 
A lesbian recently became Ontario's premier. What's the role of gay politicians?
That Kathleen Wynne can even be the premier of Ontario is a legacy of our liberation movement. That there are lesbian and gay people who are public figures makes a difference, but it doesn't make much difference if the policies those people implement disadvantage the majority of queer people. The Liberal Party is clear about its commitment to neoliberalism and austerity politics. Kathleen Wynne is involved with that. Glen Murray, also, shows how there are neoliberal queers.
 


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Reader Comments


 
Gary Kinsman...
"That there are lesbian and gay people who are public figures makes a difference, but it doesn't make much difference if the policies those people implement disadvantage the majority of queer people."......THANK YOU!!!!!!!! EXACTLY! In the end the fact that a Lesbian such as Kathleen Wynne is Premier means nothing!
Tim, Toronto ON
01/31/13 10:58 AM EST
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who is hot and who is not
It's so hard being a homosexual. First the entire world starting with one's family was daunting as a foe. Surviving that seemed worthy. Now we are again noserubbedinshit by another binary gay is bad/queer is good us and them, in and out, who's hot, who's not load of sociology. Thanks, Miss Kinsman. Nothing in life is ever such a neat black and white taxonomy of "type" (heteronormative neolib gay and activist/saint Queer), but it does make publishing to keep tenure possible. It also makes for some really boring, smug, self-bloated, arrogant, petty, hatefilled and sexless Queer Saints. I've decided to take prison along with the gay losers than fight along with the queer saints -- the sex is just so much better. Free Radio Farabunta Marti! Oh Mary don't ask.
clotted queen, Toronto ON
01/31/13 5:10 PM EST
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Actually, some of us quite like masculinity
...and do not view it as something like HIV that infects you and you can’t get rid of. Still, I’m sure Kinsman has gotten rid of nearly all his own masculinity, which makes him popular in antiheteronormative/antihomonationalist demimondes.
Joe Clark, Toronto ON
01/31/13 6:35 PM EST
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Masculinity
Joe, I've met you. You're hardly in a position to be judging others' masculinity. Whining about typography is about the least butch occupation I could imagine.
Paul, Toronto ON
02/01/13 12:57 PM EST
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Your neutral apostrophes sicken me
I would never describe myself as “butch.” But I also don’t sit around decrying high school as some kind of masculinist indoctrination camp (“the training grounds for the reproduction of hegemonic heterosexual masculinity”). So you tell me who’s ahead of the game here, “Paul.”
Joe Clark, Toronto ON
02/01/13 5:12 PM EST
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Kinsman is a dismal excuse for a sociologist
Yes, this is what has been lacking in 2013 - puffed up sociological labelling! with all the backing authority of academia and professorship and borrowed legitimacy. No, I don't need to talk to anyone and hear their views or life story or investigate the origin of the views they hold, or even wait and see what agenda they lay out as elected representatives, or wait to see how power will change them, or what they do with the vast reservoir of public trust, hope and goodwill that will move mountains if tapped into, I just need to know that they (Glen Murray, Kathleen Wynne) are Neoliberal Queers. What more is there to say or know? I don't know Ms Wynne, and I don't know what she'll be like, but to write her off like this just because she doesn't ascribe to every clause and sub-clause of your revolutionary manifesto is absolute bullshit. I have my own idea of a perfect world too, but if you seriously think that Wynne=Hudak or Obama=Romney or Harper=Layton/Martin/Ignatieff/May/Dion/Mulcair, then you haven't been paying attention, and you need to get out of the Frankfurt School/Pomo section of the library and talk to some living, breathing humans. "White settler queer people?" Humanity originated in Africa, so we're all settlers here on this continent: some just got here earlier - but we all have the same righs as citizens, at least ideally. No One Is Illegal your t-shirt hectors us, but some more legitimately occupy this land than others. Time to retake that logic course, Professor Kinsman.
Nadine Oberman, Toronto ON
02/04/13 3:07 AM EST
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Elitist drivel
It's amusing that so many of those who claim to have the interests of the working class at heart insist on speaking in the kind of chilly, exclusionary language designed to create social distance? Whenever I see the terms neoliberal, hegemonic or heteronormative I know I'm going to be irritated if I read on. Yup - now I'm cranky as fuck.
A. Kristoffersen, Burlington Ontario
02/05/13 3:35 PM EST
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Lemons into lemonade
No, this is good. Next time you're five minutes into a hot hook-up and things are going so well that you suddenly sense it is going to be, well, over too soon? Well, picture it: Professor Kinsman explaining his construct of the "neoliberal queer" and assailing the "heteronormative hegemony" and - presto! - you've bought yourself an extra 20 minutes. You're welcome.
Alex, Toronto ON
02/06/13 4:16 PM EST
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Queer activist or Queer leftist, Part 1
Kinsman has a left-wing, Toronto-centric perspective. For example, the article quotes Kinsman as saying: (quote): That movement [the protests in Toronto in the 1980s against the bath house raids] was led by grassroots and bar people but ended up producing a new professional, managerial, gay middle class. They became the dominant voice for our community, obscuring the class politics. We moved in the direction of formal legal equality and left aside all our concerns for substantive social equality. (end of quote). I have four observations. First, this quote shows how Kinsman and Toronto queer activists continually think that specific events in Toronto's gay history (e.g., the bath house raids in the 1980s) directly led to the formal equality and societal acceptance that gay men and lesbian enjoy today, when the event was just one element of the larger evolution towards LGBT rights happening in North America and Europe since the late 1960s (which was fueled by a number of factors, including the decriminalization of homosexual acts in Western countries, the appearance of sympathetic gay characters in Hollywood movies and television shows, more and more gay people coming out to their families and friends, etc).
Edward, Toronto ON
02/18/13 6:51 AM EST
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Queer activist or Queer leftist, Part 2
Second, Kinsman and other Queer activists show a disdain for middle class and professional gays. Some Queer activists (like the QuAIA types) go so far as to refer as middle class and professional gays as traitors to the movement. The irony is that Toronto Queer activists regularly claim credit for the advancement in LGBT rights, but most of their activities have been focused on “preaching to the converted”. Their activism is often limited to the LGBT community, such as having protests on Church Street, marching for particular causes at Pride and writing articles in LGBT publications. If this activism leads to results in broader society, it’s only because the activists have politicized ordinary gay people into writing letters to politicians, voting for or against a favoured candidate and engaging in other political actions. Furthermore, while Queer activists look down on middle class and professional gays, they nevertheless keep asking for their money, either by soliciting donations for their organizations (like ACT, the AIDS Committee of Toronto) or lobbying governments for their tax dollars. In each case, Queer activists claim that their organizations helps the broader the LGBT community, when often their organizations make little difference to the LGBT community (e.g., ACT’s useless HIV prevention campaigns funded by tax dollars and public donations). Often the true purpose of these organizations seems to be a mechanism to employ and give Queer activists an income and a platform for their left-wing causes (e.g., the members of QuAIA who work for ACT or who do contract work like graphic design for ACT).
Edward, Toronto ON
02/18/13 6:52 AM EST
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Queer activist or Queer leftist, Part 3
Third, Kinsman and other Queer activists criticize middle class and professional gays who don’t support left-wing causes like QuAIA. It’s really time that Queer activists start referring to themselves as Queer leftists (rather than Queer activists) since many of their causes are left-wing political causes (e.g., hatred of Israel), rather than anything that has to do with the advancement of LGBT people. Fourth, Kinsman and other Queer activists show disdain for middle class and professional gays who retreat from the visible gay community on Church Street and instead focus on their own relationships and their own circle of friends. The reason middle class and professional gays prefer to do so is because Church Street is often a depressing place (e.g., sad alcoholics looking out from bar windows) which offers little beyond bad, overpriced food and venues for anonymous sex (e.g., bathhouses, dark rooms).
Edward, Toronto ON
02/18/13 6:54 AM EST
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Edward....
you spew the same ole hetero normative culture bias as all the so called "Queer Activists" who by the way are usually middle-class or upper-middle class as they are the only ones who can afford to be pretend activists. The pretend activists have comfy little cottages at their disposal, nice little inheritances of one sort or another and tons of government grants for individual or organizational projects including secure housing, art grants, "special projects" monies and so forth. For real working people and for those who could benefit from a little activism, there is nothing. These "activists" are not on the ground with OCAP for instance as they might get their shoes dirty among the unwashed masses. Anyone can be a government sanctioned "activist" with a salary. They're your sisters Edward not mine, now STFU and pass the peas.
Sheila, Toronto ON
02/18/13 9:15 AM EST
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shut the fuck up again
Sheila, your street cred with the poor is the most militant, the most reeking of shit in a bag on the ground in the cold. You win against all bou-bou pig people and their middle class cossetted cash shame. Is your last name Bakunin, queen of the plebs. You are as phoney as the bou-bous you trash. Bed-sleeping sell out; knife and fork using faker. Repent repent and live in a tent. Or shut the fuck up.
patrolling the boundaries for queer hate of homos, Toronto ON
02/18/13 10:32 AM EST
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Ah....
your privileged little world of old fart progressiveness is falling about you. "Justice has it's anger...."V.Hugo.
Sheila, Toronto ON
02/18/13 11:08 AM EST
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Sheila is right
Sheila is right. Gary Kinsman does qualify as an old fart progressive, preaching from his university ivory tower of tenured faculty elitism, complete with salary disclosed on the Ontario Ministry of Finance website and defined benefit pension plan.
Ron, Toronto Ontario
02/18/13 11:34 AM EST
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bou bou diaspara
Shreika, 'Your farts are the oxygen of the oppressed' Sally Jessy Raphael 'Icepicks will never replace dildos' Jerry Rubin Hoodwink
ptbfqhoh, Toronto ON
02/18/13 5:02 PM EST
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Marcia, Marcia Marcia!
Marcia, Xtra is not a 'genderqueer' or 'trans' publication, but it has decided to give a lot of coverage to those issues because there is some issue alignment and many lgb people are also t. Xtra's chosen publics are gay men and lesbians, but it occasionally covers trans issues (perhaps someone from PTP can quote the mission statement) though it has never claimed to represent trans people even as it offers a platform for issues to be covered. It certainly doesn't claim to be "representing" every member of any community, and as a gay man I find myself disagreeing with things written by other gay men on these pages. That's to be expected. We are not the Borg. Nobody is ever going to get it "right" or sum up everything about the multiplicity of experiences and stories that continue to unfold in the explosion of trans identity. If many of the trans-genderqueer community in all its multiplicity of forms feels misunderstood in the lesbian and gay press, you might want to think about starting you own publication rather than constantly complaining that we/Xtra/the LG communities don't "get" you. Xtra (and PTP) were a product of the realization that lesbians and gay men had to be agents of their own liberation and took action to do so. Don't you think it's time you did the same, rather than being chronically disappointed and dismayed at your coverage in a paper that isn't primarily about you? Perhaps it might be time to organize and be your own agents rather than constantly feeling mis/under-represented/understood. The trans "multi-verse" is expanding so quickly and seems to include such a large cast of characters that it would be a challenge even for a publication dedicated to trans issues to get it all right all the time. Maybe it's time to cut the apron strings.
Kurt, Toronto ON
02/24/13 3:36 PM EST
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Word ban - heteronormative
Word ban: the word heteronormative is now banned from this day forward, say I. Anyone using it will be subject to spend eternity scrubbing Andrea Dworkin's bathroom with a toothbrush.
God (Allah, Jehovah, YHVH, Grand Fromage, etc), Toronto. Where else? North of Hades
02/24/13 3:44 PM EST
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Heteronormative SUCKS!
Heteronormative: I did not realize that there was a word for Gays/Lesbians who spout and enforce deodourized Hetero ideologies, manners and cultural trends in LGBT environments. I have met such people. I continue to despise them as a 5th column or Trojan Horse who dismantle the hard won freedoms of LGBT struggle with their restrictive “politically correct” edicts even in the most unexpected informal gatherings. In the workplace Heteronormative types can actually hurt LGBT with gossip and complaints. If any of these people are managers or directors, they can do real damage to Gays/Lesbians. These people are the enemies of LGBT, allthewhile claiming that they are Gay/Lesbian. They pretend to be the “GOOD” Gays in the eyes of Heteros. These types really “Suck!” —in the Hetero sense. Fuck them —in the Hetero sense. Instead of calling them conservative rigid assholes and idiots, I can now refer to them with a euphemism —Heteronormative— but expressed with the subdued vocal intonations of the deepest resentment. I’m keeping the word.
JB, TO ON
02/24/13 7:20 PM EST
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The homonormative couple next door
I understand that according to Queer left-wing academics and activists, homonormativity is the assimilation of heteronormative ideals and constructs into LGBT culture and individual identity (e.g., gay and lesbian couples that mimic heteronormative behaviour). I therefore assume that Queer leftists would show contempt and disdain for: (1) gay and lesbian couples that get legally married at Metropolitan Church Toronto or in a civil ceremony, (2) lesbian couples that use artificial insemination so that one member of the couple will become pregnant and have a child for the couple to raise, and (3) gay male couples that use artificial insemination and a surrogate mother so that the gay male couple will have a child to raise. Since the above 3 categories mimic heterosexual couples that get legally married and have a child together, I assume the Queer left would judge these behaviours to be homonormative. Given that a number of same-sex couples in Toronto fall into the above 3 categories, I assume that they would not appreciate being judged and condemned by the Queer left.
Vlad, Toronto ON
02/24/13 8:01 PM EST
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such gay Psy 101
JB -- why so heterovindictive? Why so bourgeoisenvious? Why so lilywhitesourassed? Dumped by a hot het-actin' gaybutch Riverdale lawyer lately? Some of the most bourgeoise hetero-acting status quo perpetuating consumer capitalists are the very drag queens and their followers whom you see as fag-rad. Go sneer at a fragrance launch. It's almost 2020, Mary Contrary. Try to keep up.
Godzilla Francis Fredricks, Toronto ON
02/24/13 9:31 PM EST
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Heteronormative “Fragrance Launch”
Godzilla you’re sooooo coooool. But I have more worthwhile interests than “keeping up” with your Heteronormative “Fragrance Launch.” Toxic petrochemical stenches give me a headache —SNEER. The DragQueens, hookers, girly pop idols and aging Hetero Cougars with a bottle of rancid spew behind each ear —all have to go. Perfume is now outlawed in most work places, thank gawd. Elevators full of Hetero women used to become gas chambers. Cheap perfume is now considered the second most reviled smell pollution after smoking in public. Also, based on the odour you launched with your writing, I presume you've been eating a ton of garlic-beans and eggs. See, I own my ideas, prefaced by “I presume...” Whereas, you made outright false accusations (bourgeoisenvious) without concrete evidence (gossip). Try to keep up.
het-actin', gaybutch Riverdale lawyer
02/25/13 2:53 AM EST
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$126,435.85 + $763.13
For those keeping track, Kinsman’s 2012 salary, as documented on the Sunshine List, was $126,435.85 plus $763.13 in listed benefits. People in glass houses etc.
Joe Clark, Toronto ON
02/25/13 10:21 AM EST
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He got a ˜$22,000 raise
Kinsman’s salary on the 2013 Sunshine list (reflecting 2012 earnings – I was off by a year in the previous comment) is $148,730.67 plus $748.63 in listed benefits. Total raise: $22,280.32. You earned how much last year living critiquing homonationalism? Admittedly you didn’t have to live in Sudbury, but 22 grand buys a lot of Netflix (and Squirt memberships).
Joe Clark, Toronto ON
03/29/13 4:19 PM EST
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