UN removes 'sexual orientation' from execution proscription
INTERNATIONAL NEWS / Global regression on gay rights issues: Dewar
Dale Smith / National / Friday, November 26, 2010
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The Third Committee of the United Nations General Assembly voted on Nov 16 to remove a specific 10-year-old reference to sexual orientation from the resolution condemning extrajudicial, summary or arbitrary executions. The vote tally was 79 to 70, with 26 abstentions. Canada, the United States and the United Kingdom all voted against the move.

“What it means is that there are a lot of countries that are, at best, in denial about what’s going on, and, at worst, engaging in [summary executions of gay people] themselves,” says Liberal foreign affairs critic Bob Rae.
Two youths were executed in Iran in 2005, reportedly for homosexuality.

“Because we’ve made so much progress against homophobia in Canada, we tend not to be fully aware of how widespread and deep and dark it is in other countries, and that’s what’s troubling – not just troubling, it’s outrageous, and we have to keep fighting it.”

“Canada is particularly concerned that individuals should not be targeted for killing or execution because of their real or perceived sexual orientation or gender identity,” says a spokesperson for the department of foreign affairs.

“As such, Canada urges states to take all necessary measures, including legislative and administrative measures, to ensure that sexual orientation or gender identity may under no circumstances be the basis for criminal penalties, in particular executions, arrests or detention, and encourages all states to take action to prevent extrajudicial, arbitrary and summary executions and to prosecute those who commit such acts.”

NDP foreign affairs critic Paul Dewar says part of the problem is that progress on gay and lesbian issues hasn’t been sustained, and that there is even regression on these matters.

“What needs to happen – and I’ve talked to diplomats about this, I’ve talked to colleagues about this – is getting the resolve and the resources back to get the progress going, to continue the process that was established in the 2000-2001 period, when we saw there was a lot of action around the UN,” Dewar says.

Part of that, says Dewar, is ensuring that the International Criminal Court has the resources to follow up on crimes against humanity.

“We have to use the tools that we had been given, and get them going again, and the only way I can think of doing this is to have a compact of nation states that are willing to do that,” Dewar says.

“Usually that starts with the usual suspects: Norwegian countries, middle powers who will be seized with it. I think that’s a strategy. Whether this government will do it or not is an entirely different question. I’m not sure that’s on their agenda, although stranger things have happened.”

Rae says there’s a silver lining to the change in the resolution.

“Ten, 15 years ago, the subject was not even being debated, so we’ve come a distance,” he says. “And if you make the comparison with Canada, don’t forget we’ve gone through a lot of defeats and downs as well as ups here, and we’ve come a long way, and I think we’re going to have to go through the same process worldwide.”

Rae points to his new book, Exporting Democracy: The Risks and Rewards of Pursuing a Good Idea, in which he writes about Canada engaging in gay rights around the world.

“Because our country is what it has become and is becoming all the time, we have to be leaders in this field, and constantly be talking about it in our representations, be engaging in it in our representations in other countries, be encouraging change, and be doing everything we can to expose not only cultural homophobia, but legal homophobia and what it means for people, and the real pain and the real hurt that it causes to the human family, right across the world.”


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Reader Comments


 
Who voted against and for the ammendment
For those curious to see which 'enlightened' countries voted for or against the ammendment go to: http://www.un.org/en/ga/third/65/docs/voting_sheets/L.65.pdf
Michael Mech, Ottawa Ontario
11/26/10 7:32 PM EST
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Very enlightening to know who our friends are
Thanks Michael! Queers Against Islamofascist Homophobia will be right along to take up the cause I'm quite sure
Laddie McGaga, Edinburgh UK
11/27/10 12:17 AM EST
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Try @hezbollah @hamas @alqaeda
Interesting reading, Michael. I'm appalled that even the secular, moderate states like Jordan and Lebanon voted Yes, and Turkey was apparently out getting a çay. Clearly the messages of solidarity from our Pride parade aren't getting through: do The Queers Against..have the correct email address?! Maybe access them through Twitter and let them know about the support here, so that they can return the favour (in the spirit of solidarity!) and, you know, not hang us and suchlike.
Laddie McGaga, Edinburgh UK
11/27/10 12:42 AM EST
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Canadian politicians lied about U.N. Resolution
If you check the original UN vote document, in the final vote Nov 16, Canada voted -YES- for the final wording of the resolution. The Canadian government speaks with forked toungue. The United States and Israel -abstained. Did they abstain in protest or just abstained?? The final vote was 165 in favour, -O- against, 10 abstentions. Please check the facts from their original sources. ___ http://www.un.org/en/ga/third/65/docs/voting_sheets/L.29Rev.1.pdf ___ The original U.N. document on the amendment states: “A proposed amendment (document A/C.3/65/L.65) would, in operative paragraph six, replace the words “any discriminatory reason, including sexual orientation” with the words “discriminatory reasons on any basis.” http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2010/gashc3997.doc.htm ___ U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon appealed to all countries, Nov. 17 with the following message: “I... appeal... for all countries that criminalize people on the basis of their sexual orientation or gender identity to take the steps necessary to remove such offences from the statute books and to encourage greater respect for all people, irrespective of their sexuality or gender identity." http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2010/sgsm13108.doc.htm ___ Moslem countries voted in favour of making the amendment, Nov 12, but so did countries such as Haiti, who are receiving aid from Canada. Canada not only voted for the final amendment, but did nothing concrete, to dissuade hateful countries from voting for it.
Charles Fisch, Toronto Ont
11/27/10 7:19 AM EST
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Another leftist failure
How's the appeasement working out, you lefty pieces of shit? The picture tells one everything a gay man needs to know about islam. Islam is a death cult and is the mortal enemy of gay men. Those are government employees of an Islamic state putting the noose around their necks. Queer leftists disgust me.
ron, Vancouver Bc
11/27/10 10:52 AM EST
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Ed's note
Hi Ron, it makes me angry too when I read about some of the horrible things gay people endure around the world. I've pulled together a few stories for you to look at. Here, here, here, here.
Matt Mills, Toronto Ont
11/27/10 11:13 AM EST
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The audacity of QuAIA
It's really outrageous that QuAIA marches at gay pride parades in a number of Canadian cities in favour of homophobes who want us dead. QuAIA holds up signs condemning a gay-friendly nation like Israel, but not one condemning homophobic Muslim governments that kill and persecute gays and that vote against gay rights at the United Nations. The homophobic Muslim governments in Gaza and the West Bank get a free pass from QuAIA.
Kevin, Toronto Ontario
11/27/10 12:53 PM EST
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Ed's note
Hey Kevin. Thanks for your comment. Just FYI.... I've never heard or seen any statement from anyone associated with QuAIA's Toronto contingent in favour of homophobes who want us dead. I didn't see anyone in the QuAIA contingent in the Toronto Pride Parade this year with a sign condemning Israel, but I did see a bunch of signs opposing Israeli foreign policy. I didn't see any signage about "Muslim governments" in the QuAIA contingent, but I did notice a couple of other international human rights groups elsewhere in the parade with various signage messages.
Matt Mills, Toronto Ont
11/27/10 1:00 PM EST
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re: Another leftist failure
ron I usually don't respond to your posts but since this was one of your least offensive posts I figured why not. Yes those are gov't employees of an Islamic state putting the nooses around their heads, they're also a very right wing gov't that executes people because of their sexual orientation. It may be of some interest to you that today its only leftist gov'ts around the world that have given gays and lesbians full equality rights, countries such as Canada and certain European ones for example while more right wing countries like the US continue to still deny equality to us while even more right wing countries like Iran and other Muslim countries and right wing Christian African countries like Uganda that have state sanctioned murder of gays and lesbians. Its obvious from the evidence that the left has done by far the most to advance LGBT equality while the right has fought against advancement in that regard or actively persecute LGBT people. You don't even have to look beyond Canada to see how the left is friendly to LGBT people while the right is hostile to us. How any self respecting LGBT person could support the right is confusing at best, but when they also support right wing social conservatives like you do ron it goes far beyond confusing into downright baffling. Don't forget that it was the Harper Cons who wanted to take away our equal marriage rights, just because they failed doesn't make them LGBT equality supporters in any way.
Rich, Toronto Ontario
11/27/10 3:07 PM EST
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rigid binary thinking example of a weak mind
I can't fathom how QuAIA's support for the human rights of Palestinians in any way equates to support for the current Palestinian gov't or the gov't of any other Muslim majority nation. It must take a rigidly binary mind to equate support for human rights for Palestinians to support for all Muslim entities or organizations. The sort of mind that's only capable of processing very little information, some Muslims are bad, so all Muslims must be bad anyone supporting some Muslims must be supporting all Muslims, it seems for such people the issue is simply Islam yes or no, there can be no shades of grey, no understanding of complexities and differences no anything that gets any more complicated than that simple proposition of Islam yes or no. I guess from their perspective it makes sense that since QuAIA supports human rights for Palestinians who are mostly Muslim that they must obviously support everything any Muslim does so to such weak minds it makes sense to say that QuAIA supports killing gays and lesbians when its a Muslim doing the killing, or that QuAIA is against LGBT rights because Muslim states are. It would take more brain power than they either have or are willing to expend to realize that QuAIA supports human rights for all and not just for western nations, its too hard for them to comprehend how QuAIA can support Palestinian human rights while opposing the party in power in the Palestinian territories, or how QuAIA can be critical of the policies of Israel but not support Israel's enemies who are also critical of Israeli policy. I think its a sad reflection on our current culture that supports such weak brained binary thinking, you're either left or right, gay or hetero, black or white, with us or against us. In reality such binaries don't exist, but they do in some people's minds.
Rich, Toronto Ontario
11/27/10 3:28 PM EST
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@Rich
Tell me when since 2006 has the Conservative government have taken our rights away? or how many Western Governments have religious or anti gay laws? I glad Israel and the United States abstained from voting when Israel voted against it the first time around and every Muslim anti gay country including Jordan who both xtra and the QuAIA was saying was gay friendly. Rich be a good little socialist and defend a society that jail or kill you for who you are and defending even knowing they don't give a fuck about your rights but seeing being hanged for being Queer.
Peter From, Toronto ON
11/27/10 4:29 PM EST
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Ed's note
Hi Peter, our Jordan story is here. You'll notice that the first source quoted says cyberspace is the only safe space to cruise in Jordan, and that he asked us to leave his last name out to protect his job. Xtra has never reported that Jordan is a gay friendly place.
Matt Mills, Toronto Ont
11/27/10 5:00 PM EST
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@ Peter From
Peter any country that doesn't have full equality for gays and lesbians has anti-gay laws including countries where gays and lesbians are forbidden to marry and that includes your two favourite countries, the US (most of it anyways) and Israel. Only a small handful of countries like Canada have full legal equality for gays and lesbians and they're all left leaning countries. Of course there's a wide range of anti-gay legislation around the world but just because a country doesn't have the death penalty for gays and lesbians doesn't mean they have equality for gays and lesbians either. Btw its common knowledge that the Cons brought forth a bill to take away marriage equality shortly after becoming gov't, I forget the exact date but interestingly you're the only one on the right who has ever denied they've done so, most just defend it by saying they knew they were going to lose and only brought the bill forward to placate their social conservative base, which is hardly any sort of defence in my opinion, the fact that the Cons had Parliament vote on a bill to take away the rights of gays and lesbians is more than enough reason to question the wisdom of gays and lesbians in Canada supporting the federal Cons.
Rich, Toronto Ontario
11/27/10 6:46 PM EST
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Go and see what happens
Rich, I'm used to insulting comments from QuAIA supporters. So, in response to your latest insulting posts, all I can say is why don't you to to Gaza, the West Bank, Iran or any other Muslim country that persecutes gays. Walk around the country, proclaim your homosexuality and engage in activities that identify you as a homosexual. Then, see what happens. I suspect you'll quickly feel the effects of a lot of "rigid brain thinking". Happy Pride.
Kevin, Toronto Ontario
11/27/10 7:35 PM EST
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re: Kevin
Thanks for demonstrating my point, I don't know why you or anyone else thinks protesting the Israeli government's policies towards the Palestinians in anyway means QuAIA supports the gov't or polices of the Palestinian territories or any other Muslim majority nation. Interesting too how you and others who share your point of view only condemn Muslim majority nations but never have anything bad to say about Christian majority nations where gays and lesbians are also persecuted and face violence for being who they are, countries like Russia, Uganda and Jamaica for example. Why don't you care about the plight of gays and lesbians in Christian majority nations? Using your logic, and the logic of many anti-QuAIA folks that would mean you support the killing and persecution of gays and lesbians if its done by Christians. QuAIA has been very clear in its support of human rights for all, can you say the same thing? It seems you have no trouble with the Israeli gov't denying the human rights of Palestinians just because gays and lesbians are better off in Israel than in the occupied territories. QuAIA believes that better conditions for gays and lesbians in Israel doesn't justify the Israeli gov't's denial of human rights for Palestinians, that's the whole reason they came into existence in the first place, because Israel was trying to justify its treatment of Palestinians by pointing out that they treat gays and lesbians better. As for your complaint about insults well you get what you sow, your own post is insulting and 99.5% of all anti-QuAIA posts are also insulting, that's all the anti-QuAIA side has since the facts and evidence don't support your side's argument that QuAIA and its supporters are anti-semitic or support the persecution of gays and lesbians by Muslim majority states. If all you have to offer is insults that's all you're going to get in response, this article didn't even have anything to do with QuAIA yet your side used it to take cheap shots at them.
Rich, Toronto Ontario
11/27/10 10:36 PM EST
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angry, scared and mean
Rich, thanks for your last message. I have been following this discussion since the summer and it's one that can become convoluted. The argument always seems to be derailed by the pro-censorship side and so based on the fears/misconceptions/lies that the anti-QuAIA's participation in Pride side present. The energy that they are taking up in the community is ridiculous but there is no way that they will see the any other side but their own, no other position but QuAIA can't march because ... If we believe in a plurality of opinions, a diversity of positions, you'll never win with them. They will say insulting things when they are opposed, they will be hurt, they will draw up fears that make their side the only one that makes sense to them. I'm beginning to believe there is no sense in dialogue. Anything from now until I don't know when will be their mission to focus it on QuAIA. It's there obsession because it's the limits of their identities. There might not even be that many of them, but they are loud and have some powerful venues to promote their fear: the National Post, the Sun, several news pundits and politicians... I feel sorry for them really, but I don't think this is a thing that they will change their minds over or see the light. They are afraid and some might say they can understand that fear. In the context of Pride, it just doesn't make sense...but if this years parade is going to be a sea of Israeli flags I think I'll pass.
toni, toronto on
11/27/10 11:01 PM EST
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Rich
In Israel,Gays and Lesbians can serve openly in the Military, Israel recognizes same sex unions that are done outside the country(So does the US), any attacks against the Gay and lesbian community are condemned by the government and all political parties inducing the attack on a Tel Aviv community center last year.(Same in the US) Also all the Palestinian Gay organization are located in side Israel and not Gaza or the West Bank(no one can not even give a clear reason why) Also Rich what Christian Nations are you even talking about? Funny, how in some of the countries or the majority you talk about when the majority of the people in those countries don't even attend church or have official state religions or religious laws or courts. Russia has been homophobic even back in the days it was called the Soviet Union and Rich you been defending the anti gay polices of the Muslim world and blaming their problems on either Israel, West or the United States as most do. I found it most interesting when it came to don't ask don't tell policy gay members of the US military for example did found support by many Republicans. Also with your hate with the Conservative party if Canada voted against the current UN resolution and so did Israel then I think it might tell you something or is Canadian government Anti Gay policies even since 2006 the current government has not even taken away any of our rights. Oh wait you can't blame Israel, the West, United States, Conservatives It has been clearly shown Jordan and the majority of the Muslim world even South Africa(shocker) want to take our rights away.
Peter From, Toronto ON
11/27/10 11:32 PM EST
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Toni what pro censorship?
The only people that seem to be censoring is the QuAIA. The last time I check in a Democratic society people have the right to an opinion even when some just hate it when they can not have a one sided debate.
James, Toronto ON
11/28/10 12:25 AM EST
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hmm
James, who tried to stop you from marching in Pride??
Sav., Toronto ON
11/28/10 1:21 AM EST
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What gives the QuAIA the right
to hijack the community?
James, Toronto ON
11/28/10 4:08 AM EST
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Other homophobic nations
Rich, of course I oppose homophobic actions taken by governments in Uganda, Zimbabwe, etc. But, I did not make specific comments against those nations in my original post since there is no Queer leftist group like QuAIA trying to hijack the gay-rights agenda of Pride by marching in support of those governments. I realize that Robert Mugabe used to be the darling of the Left. If a Queer leftist group tried to march in Pride in support of ending Western sanctions against Mugabe's homophobic government in Zimbabwe, I would also oppose their participation in Pride.
Kevin, Toronto Ontario
11/28/10 9:43 AM EST
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okay then James.
So that means that even though you don't support QuAIA's message, you support their right to march in the parade? Great, that's all I need to know. I don't have to agree with you, obviously many don't, but just hearing you say that you support QuAIA's right to march in the parade makes me respect your opinion more. I don't agree with it, but I see you are not censoring them and that's a good thing. It seems also that you've been out of the loop in what happened over the summer - first, Pride set up a panel that would vent signage of organizations who were required to submit their signage two weeks before the parade. Then there was a ban on QuAIA marching. It was lifted. And then there is this whole thing going down with the city. So, I'd say there are some censoring organizations and people working from outside and inside Pride Toronto. Does that answer your question? But it seems like I've misread a few of the anti-QuAIA people who might be anti-QuAIA, whatever...but support their presence in the parade...That's great.
toni, toronto On
11/28/10 3:16 PM EST
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More mindless bickering --The topic was the U.N.
Why are you still talking about QuAIA when the UN documents show that the Canadian Gov. betrayed the LGBT community? Canada voted YES in favour of removing sexual Orientation from the UN Charter. The final vote was 165 YES --including Canada. --U.S.+Israel Abstained.-- Talk about that. ___ http://www.un.org/en/ga/third/65/docs/voting_sheets/L.29Rev.1.pdf ___ I'm tired of mindless accusations and empty opinions from either side of the QuAIA row. Your Government betrayed you. Talk about that !! It will take 2 years before Sexual Orientation can be petitioned to be reinstated. In the meanwhile how many Gays around the world will be jailed, beaten, executed? To which countries will we not be able to travel for fear of harm? Talk about that !! Even Haiti hates us in the middle of their tragedy. And they are receiving Canadian and Gay aid. Talk about that !! How will you petition your own Government to make an effort to reinstate Sexual Orientation in the U.N. Charter? Or are you going to continue unleashing your own demons on QuAIA or any other topic, as a scapegoat for releasing the pent up frustrations and boredom of your own lives?
Charles FIsch, Toronto Ont
11/28/10 5:42 PM EST
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Ed's note
Hi Charles. I'm with you. Let's talk about the UN. In fact the vote to which you refer was on an amendment to the UN resolution condemning extrajudicial, summary and arbitrary executions and other killings. Canada did vote specifically against removing the reference to sexual orientation at what's called third committee. But voted subsequently to adopt the text of the resolution in its entirety. Canada voted for a condemnation of a variety of executions, including "for discriminatory reasons on any basis." But it did not abstain on the second vote as did the US and Israel. Maybe it should have. Canada's voice was conspicuously absent in the minutes. I'll look into why. You can read the minutes of the debate here.
Matt Mills, Toronto Ont
11/28/10 7:20 PM EST
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Logical reason on UN Abstention voting
Most countries who do choose to go ahead with an Abstention in voting only do it if the resolution has conflict of interest within those nations or might conflict with a nations current hate crime laws and the logical reason why the United States choose to use the Abstention vote could be do to the nature of American Law. In the United States hate crime laws are usually up to the States and not the federal government and in Israel it could be they have hate crime laws in place(Also might be noted they did vote against it the first time around) also the Abstention is only used if they can not agree with the overall nature of the resolution. If they can not change THE wording or if the country had enough and figure out the outcome they would go with the Abstention vote because the vote does not count. Also WTF are people crying about International Law is a joke since it can not be enforced by any country and many do not because it does interfere sovereignty of every nation in the UN . OH! NO! IT'S INTERNATIONAL LAW!= A BIG JOKE So I would suggest some look at a Logical reasons before the Pro-Anti Israel/USA start using to for a political agenda.
Mike, Quebec City QC
11/28/10 8:05 PM EST
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Interesting point by Charles
Charles raises an interesting point about the nations who receive foreign aid from Canada and who voted for removal of "sexual orientation" from a UN resolution urging states to protect the right to life of all people. The Government of Canada announced in 2009 that it will be focusing 80 percent of Canada’s foreign aid on 20 countries of focus (including West Bank and Gaza, which I assume did not have a vote at the UN Committee since they are not yet fully independent states). Of the remaining 18 nations, 13 voted for removal of sexual orientation. The 13 nations are Haiti, Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Pakistan, Vietnam, Ethiopia, Ghana, Mali, Mozambique, Senegal, Sudan and Tanzania. Source for the 20 countries of focus: http://www.acdi-cida.gc.ca/acdi-cida/ACDI-CIDA.nsf/eng/JUD-51895926-JEP Source for the UN vote: http://www.xtra.ca/blog/national/post/2010/11/17/Human-Rights-groups-condemn-removal-of-sexual-orientation-from-UN-resolution.aspx
Kevin, Toronto Ontario
11/29/10 1:27 AM EST
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Canada Should Influence Foreign AntiGay Laws
Thankyou Kevin. Finally some intelligent conversation. Now, how do we petition the Canadian Gov. to influence countries receiving our financial aid, to remove Anti-Gay legislation from their laws? (Haiti, Afghanistan, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Pakistan, Vietnam, Ethiopia, Ghana, Mali, Mozambique, Senegal, Sudan and Tanzania.) Is there anyone out there who is experienced in petitioning Governments, with appropriate language and leverage? We must keep this topic alive. It concerns all of us.
Charles Fisch, Toronto Ont
11/29/10 4:40 PM EST
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A near-impossible battle
Charles, it would be a near-impossible battle to get those 13 nations to change their stance on gay rights at the UN - let alone amend their domestic laws to foster gay rights. For example, Afghanistan and Pakistan are fundamentalist Muslim countries facing insurgents from the Taliban. They are likely to become more fundamentalist, not less. Because of broader political and strategic reasons (e.g., the war on terror), the Government of Canada would never consider cutting off aid to these countries because of their anti-gay vote at the UN or pressuring them to change their stance on gay rights (e.g., Canada has been aiding Afghanistan in its fight against the Taliban for years). The gay community has so little leverage against these countries. For example, it's unlikely that gay people will lobby to cut off earthquake relief to Haiti because of its anti-gay vote at the UN. It's also unlikely that gay people will hold protests or march against any of those countries at Pride. It will probably be decades before there is even a small improvement for gays in those countries.
Kevin, Toronto Ontario
11/29/10 9:40 PM EST
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rigid, binary?
The gay world used to be united. Being gay used to transcend race, gender, politics, ethnicity and so on. But that's all changed now. The posts here show that brilliantly. And it's the left that have changed it. (Are you reading this Rich, toni, et al.?) If anyone has a "rigid, binary" mind, it's those who turn every issue into one of left v. right. What makes it galling is that you try to use the language of human rights to disguise what you're doing. If you stopped seeing the world in this rigid binary way, and start seeing it as a gay person, you'd see who are friends are and you'd quietly withdraw your support from hateful groups like the QuAIA.
Jim, Toronto Ontario
12/02/10 2:29 AM EST
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The new anti-semitism
"if this years parade is going to be a sea of Israeli flags I think I'll pass" --- toni, I'm sorry but I just perceive this as anti-semitic. I'm not Jewish and I know that Israel is not above criticism. However, this kind of language does not belong in a discussion of gay issues, especially after an article showing gays being executed in Iran. It seems to me that the language used when it comes to Israel is particularly nasty. All QuAIA have to do is lose the provocative name.
Jim, Toronto Ontario
12/02/10 2:35 AM EST
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PRIDE, to protest U.N. removing Sexual Orientation
At PRIDE, is anyone going to protest the Islamist countries, removing Sexual Orientation from the U.N. International Charter? Will there be placards and angry chanting over the possibilities of new executions and beatings of Gays in Islamic countries? Will Gay/Lesbian businesses have placards urging the refusal to deal with islamic countries? Will Gay travel Agencies march in the parade with trip advisories against Moslem countries? Will any group protest Haiti taking our money and yet in their most devastated moments still have enough energy to proclaim hate for us? This is bigger than the QuAIA. What are you going to do about it, armchair gripers ?? !!
Charles FIsch, Toronto Ont
12/02/10 4:03 AM EST
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Pure Racism and Xenophobia of Arabs / Muslims
Everyone here is fixated on the Arab / Muslim nations whose governments voted against the motion so it is easy and accurate to say that your focus here is due to your racism and xenophobia and NOT your concern for the result of this vote. Most Caribean nations voted against the motion - but no mention here of banning the Caribbean or carrying pacards against St.Lucia! NO mention here of the countries who were actually at the meeting ie Bolivia but chose to abstain. Lets ban Bolivians from the Parade!! None of you actually read the vote and if you did your hatred of Muslims drew your focus out so clearly. And if people like you Charles Fisch are so concerned about gay people who are oppressed by Islamist governmetns then you'd fucking do something about it - but obviously you really don't give a shit about gay people in Islamist countries because after all *they're all Muslim* and you hate them anyway, gay or straight.
J Roman, Toronto ON
12/02/10 10:43 AM EST
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Sorry Charles - I ponted you out in error
You actually want to discuss this issue.
J Roman, Toronto ON
12/02/10 10:50 AM EST
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This isn't about QuAIA - deal with it
J, I think the fixation on Muslim/Arab nations has to do with the fact that the state is often the offender and that Muslim countries tend to be regressive on a whole range of issues. But I agree, we should also be going after Uganda, Jamaica and other nations. But that might also lead to charges of racism. Too fucking bad. We need to call this stuff what it is, and not worry about how p.c. it is and whether telling the truth will upset some people. It's too easy, and to lazy, to constantly scream Islamophobia. If you buzz around the site, you'll quickly see that Christophobia is more the vogue of the day, and that Muslims actually get a pass more than they should.
Jean St. Aubin, Oshawa ON
12/02/10 11:01 AM EST
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“Moslems don't vote vote Gays”
“Moslems don't vote vote Gays” was an anti-Smitherman campaign in Toronto. Is anyone going to carry a placard with that slogan, in THE Parade? I wrote about the Muslim nations because they are guilty, and I'm sick of hearing about the QuAIA again, from gripers on both sides. Also because there is not enough room here to mention all of the nations who voted out Sexual Orientation from the U.N. Charter --which is what this article is about. NO ONE SEEMS TO CARE ABOUT THIS ARTICLE --it is too abstract for armchair gripers. ____MY POINT WAS: somebody should protest this in the PRIDE parade. Who is going to protest the U.N. removal of Sexual Orientation in the PRIDE parade, with placards? Or the treatment of Gays in Uganda or Iran or whichever country you chose? Will you be out there marching instead of just complaining in comfort, on the internet?
Charles Fisch, Toronto Ont
12/02/10 2:53 PM EST
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Pffft
J Roman - Pfft. Hissing racist at other gay people is not helpful, is it? What I really want to ask you though is this: what's more important to you, being gay or being left wing? Sexual orientation or religion. Spit it out. And if politics and religion are more important to you, what are you doing here? Go to another site where those issues are relevant. And regardless, you're just wrong. I think we call care what happens to gay people in Muslim countries. Your post is absurd.
Jim, Toronto Ontario
12/02/10 3:15 PM EST
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J Roman of course it's racist
Wow! So did Israel Abstained but I think a certain group would not want them at Pride or is talking about the homophobia in the Islamic World(and a reality)bdd5f racist as it always seem to be a common theme among leftest.
James, Toronto ON
12/02/10 5:00 PM EST
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