Trans activists protest women-only pharmacy
HEALTH / Vancouver pharmacy only serves women born women
Rob Easton / Vancouver / Monday, July 13, 2009
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On Jul 11, trans activists protested the policies of a new Vancouver pharmacy that only serves women born women. The Vancouver Women's Health Collective, the group running Lu's: A Pharmacy for Women, says it does not have the expertise to serve trans women. Trans activists say that policy is discriminatory.

Check out Xtra.ca videographer Rob Easton's report below:




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Reader Comments


 
Open Dialogue
I'm so glad that this issue is receiving so much media attention! It's great to see so many cisgendered (non-trans) allies are taking issue with Lu's policy! :) I hope that this leads to an open dialogue between the two groups! I should also mention that you can follow us this issue on Twitter (#luspharmacy), the femininjas website (femininjas.com), or on Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=113616408736).
Brooke, Vancouver BC
07/14/09 1:27 AM EST
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not just a trans issue
i'd like to clarify one point: this isn't just an issue that trans women care about. the report indicates that the protesters were a bunch of trans women, however the reality is that there were a variety of trans- and cis- gendered people. i myself am one of many cisgendered woman who were at the protest. it boils down to inclusiveness vs. discrimination and this is something that matters to a lot of us.
Kuro Neko Ninja, Vancouver BC
07/14/09 1:31 AM EST
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Support for Lu's in the Hood
I for one am excited to see the first women's pharmacy open in the Downtown Eastside of Vancouver. It's new, it's innovative and it wants to do what it knows how to do. As women let's celebrate this new service and let it succeed.
Tricia, Vancouver BC
07/14/09 4:06 PM EST
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Disturbing
It's funny, things change so much that when I first heard about this pharmacy from other news sources, I actually assumed that all women would be welcome including those of trans experience. But maybe things don't change to much after all? Is this a Vancouver things? In Toronto, not only would no one get away with this sort of thing, no feminist group would WANT to.
Shawn, Toronto ON
07/14/09 4:37 PM EST
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Small correction
The human rights complainant pictured in your video is likely Kim Nixon, not Dixon ...
Ariel, Ottawa ON
07/14/09 4:50 PM EST
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?
It's innovative to discriminate? Now where is that Men Only pharmacy?
Dan, Vancouver BC
07/14/09 6:36 PM EST
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i second that "?"
Tricia, would you say "it wants to do what it knows how to do" about an organization that did not want to serve gay people because it had no prior experience with them? "As women let's celebrate this new service and let it succeed." So trans women should celebrate this service for women that they are being excluded from? Say what?
Ace, vancouver BC
07/14/09 7:46 PM EST
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Support for WHC
"Transgender" is, by most definitions, such an open-ended category that it would allow any person claiming to "have at some point not conformed to gender norms" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender) to shoehorn themselves into a much-needed safe space for DTES women, some of the most dispossessed in Canada. Bravo to the Women's Health Collective for not bowing to threats and defamation and maintaining their proposed service after years of discussion with all members of the community, not just "self-identified women". When transgender people can use any other drugstore, why the need to force the hand of the WHC, if not to impose a very traditional imperative that women are not allowed agency and freedom of association? (Meanwhile female ski jumpers are denied funding by the BC Supreme Court, and I don't see much of a ripple in the self-alleged "progressive" community...)
Martin Dufresne, Montreal Qc
07/14/09 9:08 PM EST
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Really Martin?
Trans women are NOT arguing for the inclusion of non self-identified women and the issue has very little to do with conformity to gender norms. I don't think anyone in the trans community would possibly support a male-identified drag queen waltzing into Lu's. Just because 'discussion' took place doesn't mean their decision was forged through consensus or is in any sense representative of a community. Is your whole argument based around some whimsical perception that 'trans women' take up too much space? Yes, trans women could just use any other drugstore, but so can every biological woman out there. Trans women would only want to use Lu's for the same reason a biological female would; it's a safe space, convenient, and the staff knowledgeably serve the concerns of women. Yes, trans women DO have concerns that come with living as women. As a trans woman, I would not walk into Lu's and declare my trans status to the pharmacist just to make a point, but I wouldn't want to feel like I was unwelcome if ever I were in the neighbourhood to drop off a prescription when it's a space supposedly open to ALL women. WHC's hand is being 'forced' because the policy is unnecessary and discriminatory, and to devalue the issue by comparing it, in your eyes, to more 'worth causes' is an asinine tactic at best. By the way, many people in the 'progressive' community are anti-Olympics... not to say the issue of female ski jumping not being included as an Olympic event is not framed as a feminist issue by the trans-positive community. It's rather ignorant to believe that trans women are only capable of dealing with transgender issues or are only obsessed with proving that they're women to the world. I for one care as deeply about women's issues as feminists who romanticize the ethnocentric notion of 'sisterhood', but couldn't bear to think of a 'former male' as one of their own.
Tara Chee, Surrey British Columbia
07/15/09 6:02 AM EST
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Different Issues
Martin Dufresne's post illustrates a point. Although TS women do occupy a huge part of the transgender spectrum, the part of said spectrum that isn't TS has far different issues than does the TS side. Whether pre-op, post-op or non-op, most TS women have medical issues to deal with that, let's face it, the CD/TV/DQ side don't. Because we can't assume a male identity and access a mainstream pharmacy as such, TS women are also in need of that same women-only space. I'm not for a second suggesting that TS women are somehow 'better' than the rest of the TG spectrum. The issues are just somewhat different.
Natalie Murray, Trenton Ontario
07/15/09 9:02 AM EST
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Lets celebrate a space for women
Some spaces are mixed Some are gay some a just for straight men It seems that every group except for biological females get a space of their own I know of several trans specific programs in our town and I don't use those services because I am not a trans person. You are bringing a lot of negativity to Lu when it should be celebrated.
Sally, Vancouver BC
07/15/09 10:00 PM EST
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Acknowledging one's limits
I am surprised that people seem ready to disbelieve a priori the Women's Health Collective's explanation that they don't feel they have the capacity or the competence to serve transgenders. The following comment from a Montreal feminist professional, specializing in women's health issues, seems to validate that concern when it comes to hormone therapy (HT): ""Women born and staying as women" have correctly blasted the use of HT (or HRT) for menopause, etc., but I've yet to see anyone asking about the real risks to trans folks re THEIR really heavy use of hormones: the "individual choice to take risks" is the likely response, but health may be being really messed up and there are no data on which to evaluate just what the risks may, or may not, be." This is not to knock transgenders in any way, but to explain that - according to my contact's expertise - transitioning trans apparently need highly specialized counseling and follow-up when it comes to drug therapy, something a regular pharmacist may well feel or be unable to provide, which is the WHC's main point in the interview above. A true professional acknowledges hir limits. Is dismissing the importance of such limits really serving trans' interests?
Martin Dufresne, Montréal Qc
07/15/09 10:56 PM EST
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Martin...
Your point would be quite valid, if it were only used in the proper context. Trans women understand the 'transitioning process' the best, and although your source is quite accurate, it has been melded with WHC's position and entirely misconstrued. I will try to explain why they are quite capable of serving 'transgenders'. (Is it really that hard to write 'trans women'?) First, we do not need a 'feminist' health professional to piece together the discourse around the risks and benefits of hormones for us; the doctor who prescribes the hormones are required to go through all the guidelines, requiring signed acknowledgment of the risks. Thus trans women as individuals make the choice to preserve their mental and social health at the risk of their own physical health, risks that aren't exceedingly dangerous for someone in good health. There are possibly more health complications associated with smoking than taking hormones to transition. Secondly, how could you have possibly argued on one hand that trans women could go to any other pharmacy and not interfere with 'the good work at Lu's', all while arguing that the 'regular pharmacists' at Lu's would not be able to provide the services that trans women supposedly require from their pharmacist. That is, the pharmacists at Lu's ONLY need as much training and 'specialization' as any other qualified pharmacist in the province. Thirdly... the 'specialized counseling' and follow-up are done with a psychologist and either a trans-positive GP or endocrinologist. Most of these services are administered through Vancouver Coastal Health. Pharmacists do NOT prescribe drugs to nor counsel trans women; all they do is fill out their prescription order like any other drug. If the WHC truly feel that they have neither the capacity nor the competence to serve trans women, then all the better. They're simply uninformed and this is all a misunderstanding. Yet I somehow get the feeling that there's more to it...
Tara Chee, Surrey British Columbia
07/16/09 1:06 AM EST
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Sally
If there was an organization that celebrated their existentialistic biological female existences and held weekly meetings to connect over their synchronized menstrual cycles, I would be the first to say all the power to them. As a trans woman, I would be quite all right with 'women born women' romanticizing their 'femaleness' to mythical proportions because they make no claims to providing services for all women. But Lu's is a pharmacy. It provides services to supposedly all women, yet excludes trans women from their definition of 'women', all while using an uninformed position to justify it. We don't 'celebrate' this space in its entirety because it would be marginalizing to trans women to do so. It would be sending a message to all trans women that it's better for us to just shut up and get along, since we would be perceived as 'taking up space' if we were to speak up.
Tara Chee, Surrey British Columbia
07/16/09 1:28 AM EST
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Discriminating against Queers is not okay
Banning transsexual and intersexed women from a pharmacy *and future health clinic* makes no sense. Refusing to advertise this policy, but rather kicking women out when they come in, shows that even Lu's knows that what they're doing is wrong. And doing this in a neighbourhood with a large transsexual population makes no sense at all. For the most part, Transsexual and Intersexed women's health needs are the same as those as women who were assigned female at birth. Ear infections. Breast cancer. Migraines. Warts. Stomach problems. What difference is there? Is it the uterus? Transsexual women don't have a uterus. But many Intersexed women do. And any woman who has had a hysterectomy does not. This policy is simple discrimination against Queers. It's founded in ignorance. This is a Queer news site. Let's show some pride and make some change!
Amy Fox, Vancouver BC
07/16/09 3:38 PM EST
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Stop attacking the women's health collective.
I am writing in support of Women only space. By this I mean spaces reserved for women (defined as those persons who are born female and raised into their current womanhood). This experience is unique to women and shared by women, and this experience is the root of a number of oppressions put upon women within male dominated society. I believe that woman only space is necessary for women to seek peer help and gain strength to enable them to resist sexist oppression, in an otherwise male dominated world. In a world where women only spaces are harder and harder to find, I am gladdened to hear about the new Women only Pharmacy in Vancouver, and thank the Vancouver Women’s Health collective for the good work they do. I see woman only health care centers as one type of woman only space, one that provides women who were born female and socialized into womanhood a specialized health care service based upon the gendered health care needs, needs that differ from men and trans gendered people. I support a woman only pharmacy, because it is a woman only space, as it is feminist resistance against the historically patriarchal models of health care, so commonly accepted and promoted in western industrialized nations. I believe that the creation of a woman only space does not reduce the quality of care in other mixed gendered health care spaces, nor is it an impediment to men and trans-gendered people to access health services elsewhere. In fact, I believe that Lu's existence lessens the wait time in those other types of pharmacies, and could even improve quality of healthcare for all. Women who were born female and socialized into womanhood ought to have the right to access woman only spaces for their own issues, and have the ability to access woman delivered health care, with a peer to peer approach. In no way does this infringe upon trans-gendered rights to seek medical attention, nor inhibit their right to build their own peer to peer health care elsewh
Aurea, Vancouver British Columbia
07/16/09 3:52 PM EST
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Open letter to all past and present VWHC members
We have released an open letter directed at all past and present members of the Vancouver Women's Health Collective. It's goal is to seek a policy change without recourse to the legal system. To view it, visit our website.
The Femininjas, Vancouver BC
07/16/09 4:22 PM EST
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That's strange. The URL didn't post.
Let's try that again http://www.femininjas.com/2009/07/an-open-letter-to-present-and-past-members-of-the-vancouver-womens-health-collective/
The Femininjas, Vancouver BC
07/16/09 4:23 PM EST
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Re: "Recourse to the legal system"
As a matter of fact, "...In 2005, the B.C. Court of Appeal upheld women-only organizations' legal right to restrict their membership to women and exclude transgender people. ("Transgender rights activists to protest ban at Downtown Eastside pharmacy," Stephen Hui, Georgia Straight, July 9)
Martin Dufresne, Montreal Qc
07/16/09 10:01 PM EST
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To Martin
It is true that women-only organizations have the legal right to restrict their membership to women and exclude transgender people. Lu's Organization is not an organization. It is a business. In 2003, the B.C. Supreme Court decision that led up to the Court of Appeal’s ruling of that legal right confirmed that post-operative male-to-female transsexuals are legally women and “therefore entitled to all the usual rights”. It is discriminatory for a business, such as Lu's Pharmacy, to be denying people access to health care on the basis of their gender identity.
Pucca Ninja, Vancouver BC
07/16/09 11:36 PM EST
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In the above comment
Lu's Organization = Lu's Pharmacy
Pucca Ninja, Vancouver BC
07/16/09 11:39 PM EST
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Yes of course Lu's(VWHC) is wrong
First. Martin, the Court of Appeal upheld the non profit's right to decide who can volunteer. Here we are speaking about the right to access of service. Completely different. Women who are transexual or of transexual or intersex experiance have many of the same need s women not of TS experiance who now have gone through menophause. In other words if they can support these women, what are the differences then? Sally, Lu brought negativelty to itself to itself by discriminating on other women. Aurea, thanks for making our point clear by clearly saying you don't accept women of TS or IS experiance as "real " women. You helped point out what the problem with Lu is. Lu's Pharmacy, is a pharmacy. That means the pharmasist dispenses medications, and is an expert in contra indications of different medications. As such I can see nothing which would hold water in Lu's not being knowledgable in this aspect. Rape, they also help people out of bad situation.Well many women of TS/IS experiance suffer rape and many other sociatal issues foisted upon women. Again where is that seperation. HRT, not all women of TS/IS experiance use or continue to use HRT. Being able to discuss alternative with those who understand them is bennificial. Or is that only bennifical to those we pick?Not to mention there are different HRT medications out there, some safer then others but that brings us back to that expert pharmasist again. ooops Point is Lu's discriminates and I am glad I live in a Province where the femmist community understand the differences and accept women who are TS/IS as the women they are. This by the way includes the women's only bathhouse which happens during pride each year, women's rape crisis centre, women's support groups and so many more examples. I think people need to remember two things. One was mentioned, that the IOC is not allowing women to compee in down hill sking(hope the appeal goes well) and that the IOC accepts women of TS/IS history as women.
femme, toronto ontario
07/17/09 10:11 AM EST
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What about Equality??
In this day and age, there shouldn't be ANY gender-specific services. ALL services should be available to ALL genders, sexual orientations, etc. By offering service only to cisgendered females, Lu's is promoting segregation. Let us live without differences!
Kieran Earles, Mount Pearl Newfoundland
07/17/09 4:26 PM EST
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Stop the bigotry against transfolks
If Lu's pharmacy doesn't feel qualified to serve trans women, perhaps it should hire a transperson or bring transwomen in to volunteer. Oh wait, that's not what this is really about is it? Yawn, we've heard this BS so many times before it's amazing anyone is still listing. First straight women didn't want lesbians around cuz their issues were different, then lesbians didn't want bi women around cuz their issues were different. blah blah blah. Hey, guess what, we didn't all suddenly become the SAME. We just woke up to the fact that difference is not a basis for discrimination. That's called "bigotry." Seriously, I'm embarassed these dinosaurs are still roaming our community, and I'm embarassed there are actualy people posting here who think this is OK. People, if you are so fucked up that you can't handle being around a transwoman in a pharmacy, you don't need a pharmacy that bans transwomen. You need therapy. ..in a big way.
Heather, Vacouver BC
07/18/09 1:11 AM EST
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some clarity then
Aurea, perhaps more clarity is needed then about what the policy is. Because as far as Caryn Duncan (E.D. at Lu's) is concerned, Lu's is not a woman-only space *as you've defined it above*. She was very clear with me on the phone yesterday that Lu's would serve both transsexual & transgendered men who "pass" as men in the world. MEN. To be specific, i asked her clearly if Lu's serves & would serve Female to Male transsexual & transgendered men, and whether it was dependent on whether or not someone "passes" as male, using myself as an example. She said "yes [they] would serve FTMs. That is included in the body of work". She went on to say "it could be awkward, it causes complications" [the passing & potentially different body of said FTM], "but we would want to have a conversation about about how we could help that person or where we could direct them if there were things we weren't sure about. But if an FTM came in to deal with god forbid cervical cancer for example, we would want to help them figure out what can be done." So a woman with breast cancer can't get a prescription filled at Lu's simply because she's trans; but a man with cervical cancer can go in & access detailed health services in addition to the many prescriptions i'm sure he'd be allowed to fill because (despite his self-&-possibly-state-sealed-and-approved identity as a man, and because he has an assumed vagina) Lu's sees him as a woman? Is that it? How very strange. Personally i fully 100% support a woman-only space such as Lu's, but one that includes all women regardless what they've got in their knickers, & does not include men, regardless what they've got in theirs. Otherwise, it's not a women-only space, even in the most basic sense. Seems to me some clarity is required. Perhaps you can share with Caryn your interpretation of women-only space as "defined as those persons who are born female & raised in
romham, vancouver bc
07/18/09 12:43 PM EST
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some clarity then
con't ...to their current womanhood"? Because she doesn't seem to share it publicly at least.
romham, vancouver BC
07/18/09 3:30 PM EST
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Oh please
This is Vancouver Rape Relief versus Kimberly Nixon all over again. Women beingexcluded because of an accident of birth is discrimination, period. There's an F on my ID. I'm intersexed. But I do in fact have a penis. I'm legally and biologically female but Lu's by their stated policy would still refuse me. If youcan tell me that's not discrimination and keep a straight face, I'll refer you to Gordon Campbell for a job, he needs more delusional apologist idiots like you in his cabinet.
Penny Sautereau-Fife, Surrey BC
07/18/09 11:23 PM EST
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Martin and Aurea, wake up and spell the coffee.
Martin, anyone knowedgable about trans issues knows that you obviously are deeply, profoundly ignorant and are only flaunting your cis (not-trans) privilege in our faces. If you so clearly feel the need to weigh in on this discussion then for Bog's sake, go and learn about what you're talking about first! If you were to do that you'd realise that everything you've said has been talked about, taken apart and disproven long ago. You don't need to start the whole mess yet again. And there's no such thing as "transgenders". Way to dehumanise people Martin. We're transpeople if you must call us anything to distinguish us from cispeople. Aurea, you know very well that nobody's attacking the VWHC. You are trying to spin this protest as an attack on the entire collective. You're trying to make us into the bad guys. You're blaming the victims of your discrimination for making you feel bad when we call you on your privilege. You've tried this tactic in comments on the Georgia Straight's articles and it failed there. Why do you believe it'll succeed here? You know very well that we support womemns' space and you know very well that we support the concept of Lu's. The only part that we do not support is their discrimination against a population of women even more at risk than mainstream women. You also know that we're willing to dialogue with WVHC, not attack them. Nobody's attacking anybody except by telling the truth. If you feel the truth is an attack then you'd better re-examine your values; something's very wrong somewhere. Own your privilege, Aurea. You know that the "Women born women" fallacy has long since been discredited. You also know that the excuses Caryn has been spouting off have also long since been discredited.
Mama Rose Ninja, Burnaby BC
07/20/09 9:45 PM EST
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