Queer couple kicked out of Ontario Tim Hortons
ONTARIO NEWS / Manager of 'family-friendly' location threatened to call police
Andrea Houston / National / Monday, October 24, 2011
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UPDATE: Oct 24, 12:50pm - Tim Hortons has said it was not the manager's intention to offend the couple.

Alexandra Cygal, manager of public affairs at Tim Hortons head office, says the couple "went beyond public displays of affection."

"Thank you so much for the opportunity to respond. We apologize if the two guests were offended by the misunderstanding that occurred at our Blenheim restaurant last month on behalf of the owners and management. It was not their intention. Tim Hortons and its restaurant owners have always welcomed all families and communities to their restaurants and will continue to do so. It was not the manager's intention to offend or target anyone based on their sexual orientation. The guests' behaviour went beyond public displays of affection and was making other guests feel uncomfortable. The management has apologized to Riley and Patricia and invite them back to their restaurant."

Cygal declined to comment further about the incident. She says her statement has been deleted from the Occupy Tim Hortons Facebook group.


Oct 24 11am - A queer couple who were kicked out of a southwestern Ontario Tim Hortons at the end of September say they have decided to go public and file a human rights complaint.

Riley Murphy, 25, and her girlfriend, Patricia Pattenden, 23, say they were shocked and offended when the manager of a Blenheim, Ontario, Tim Hortons told them the coffee shop is “family friendly” and threatened to call police. 

Murphy, who identifies as genderqueer, says the couple was sitting on a bench outside the shop with nine of Pattenden's family members, including her mom, brother and cousin. The couple say the family was drinking coffee and talking. 

Murphy says Eric Revie, pastor of Glad Tidings Church, was inside the Tim Hortons. 
Patricia Pattenden (left) and Riley Murphy (right) were told to leave Tim Hortons in Blenheim, 100 km west of London.
(Courtesy of Murphy)

“He kept looking over at us, staring at us,” she says.

Murphy says she and Pattenden were barely showing any public affection. Pattenden had her arm around Murphy’s waist and at one point gave Murphy “a peck on the cheek.”

Murphy saw Revie speak with the shop's manager just before she the manager approached the couple.

“The manager said what Pat and I were doing was not acceptable,” she says. “She said Tim Hortons is a family-friendly environment and we should be more respectful of other customers.”

When asked what they had done to offend people, the manager told them “touching, hand holding and making out.” Murphy says she asked the manager if this was any different from behaviour exhibited by straight couples. 

“We didn’t know we were doing anything wrong,” she says. “The manager said that if we didn’t leave in five minutes she would call police.

“We weren’t making out. My girlfriend’s whole family were there,” she says. “We left. We were already embarrassed enough.”

To add insult to injury, Murphy says, Revie then took his church group of about 15 people to the parking lot for a “prayer circle."

“He was there with kids. I think it was a youth group,” she says. “There was quite a few people at Tim Hortons that day that saw it all.”

Joost Gratmas, owner of the Tim Hortons, has declined to comment and told Xtra he will not allow his staff to speak about the event, including the manager who asked Murphy and Pattenden to leave.

Glad Tidings Church staff have not responded to Xtra's request for a comment. 

Activists in the area are already mobilizing to respond, says local social justice advocate Tracy Lamourie, who created a Facebook group called "Occupy Tim Hortons" on Oct 23.  Lamourie says the response has been overwhelming.

She says several protests are planned for Oct 27.


 


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Reader Comments


 
London and Homophobia
It seems like London, Ontario is the Canadian center of homophobia sometimes. Remembering that whole Major refusing Pride thing and the Police Chief hunting down Gays, from a few years back now. Truro, Nova Scotia has competition again.
Jase, Mississauga ON
10/24/11 12:30 PM EST
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Misinformation
While I disagree with the way the manager handled the situation and agree something needs to be done, I am bothered by the way this story has been disseminated by the LGBT community centre that made the original press release. My friend phoned and spoke to Tim Hortons last night, and got a differing story that may or may not be true. I still agree action against that specific Tim's store is reasonable. However, the press release posted the name, phone number, and e-mail of the head pastor at the church, who was not involved. The pastor involved was exchanging e-mails and then spoke on the phone with my friend last night, and said he has been getting death threats by phone and e-mail from as far away as California. He had an angry mob on his front lawn most of the night, and the police were there trying to keep things civil. The pastor said he had no idea the couple were anything but hetero, and he saw them sitting outside the window, grabbing each other's crotches. He had his two young children with him, and asked the manager to ask the couple to please tone down their behaviour. There was no stare down, and no prayer circle. The pastor says he left soon after and thought nothing more about it. The community centre plans to send out a new press release with corrected information on it. The two pastors are being harassed and threatened by some people who just take things too far.
Ali Gothard, Kitchener ON
10/24/11 12:52 PM EST
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Not a Tim Hortons fan
I have always tried to avoid supporting any Tim Hortons even before this happened.
Mike J, Ottawa On
10/24/11 1:01 PM EST
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why?
seems weird for a bunch of schizophrenic GOD lovers to be harrasing two people partnered.
David Olsen, windsor ontario
10/24/11 1:02 PM EST
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It's true
Dear Mis Information. I know what you mean. I had a sister's boyfriend's cousin's landlord see the whole thing, but it involved dildos. He must of had a better view than your eyewitness. And don't get me started on what my son's hockey coache's brother's gardner's girlfriend saw on the pastor's front lawn.
Deb Ree, Hamilton Onatario
10/24/11 1:27 PM EST
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We didn't delete Timmys comments...
Timmies Comment was NOT deleted from our page...someone posted on my page "why was it deleted" I said it wasn't - go look - it is under "EVERYONE - MOST RECENT" right under the comments bar...duh... Moments later the comment they had posted on my page was deleted and I can't find the Timmies response now, so I guess they deleted that too - perhaps cause they have been telling the media I did, which I did not ! I just COMMENTED on it and said it wasn't a good response, still blaming them...but its up to the LGBTQ community, not me...to decide if that response is good enough.
Tracy Lamourie, Chatham ON
10/24/11 2:23 PM EST
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not again...
I find that London needs to clean up its image, why is it alright to kick transwomen out of a farmers market booth a couple weeks ago and a couple from a tim hortons? I wasn't there but I believe these kids on the basis of, I have a girlfriend and I am much less physical with her while our parents are around...let alone in a crowded restaurant with children present... The fact that the man is a right
kendall, toronto ontario
10/24/11 2:32 PM EST
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@ Deb Ree
Look, my friend Marie was the one who started the petition online. She was not present but she was the only activist who bothered to check the "facts" the community centre put out. She spoke directly to the parties involved, and retracted her petition after realising the press release contained a large quantity of false information. Today, the National Post phoned her for a statement. She had spoken up taking the press release for fact, but when she did real fact-checking, she found out she had been misinformed and is now in the spotlight for having gotten involved. Phone the parties yourself if you wish.
Ali Gothard, Kitchener ON
10/24/11 2:38 PM EST
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Not a Tim's Fan
Even if there was some incorrect information about the situation, I am not buying Tim Horton's version of the incident in the least. Of course they are going to say the behaviour was beyond public displays of affection. But if the family members say it was on PDA's who are you gonna believe Tim's or the people that were invovled. Tim Horton's doesn't want a battle with the LGBT Community because they know they would lose out period!! I saw Boycot Tim Horton's til they come clean and correct the issue and stop discriminating and violating people's rights!
John M Gaynes, London ONTARIO
10/24/11 3:29 PM EST
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Queer?
Andrea, many of us in the "queer community" do not think of ourselves as "queer" and really don't have a frigging clue what you mean by "identifies as gender queer". I just think it's inappropriate for a serious journalist to be using this term in this way. The American gay press don't use it. The UK gay press don't use it. Perhaps it was your editors, however. I understand that. Xtra apparently wants to send out this message of being ultra left wing. I wish Xtra would just accept the mantle of being Canada's gay magazine. Oh wait...
Jim, Toronto Ontario
10/24/11 3:51 PM EST
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Right on!
Three cheers for Tim Horton's. The general public should not be harassed by being forced to watch this perverse behavior.
MAD, Any Town province
10/24/11 3:56 PM EST
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Sorry to hear
LESBIANS, DYKES, QUEERS...DON'T BRING IT TO A FAMILY ESTABLISHMENT...GO HIDE IN YOUR CLOSET...LOL
DYKES, BLENHEIM ALABERTA
10/24/11 4:15 PM EST
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re: 'Queer'
@Jim - Just as some in the community don't care for or identify with the term 'Queer', others don't see themselves as Gay or Lesbian or even Trans. Many people identify themselves thus and while it is a historically derogatory word, those who use it for themselves feel fine with it, perhaps for the reason that it's not too specific. As far as 'gender queer' goes, it generally identifies someone who doesn't feel specifically male or female and/or someone who's sexuality is fluid (and I do mean 'generally', as in a generalization and not ALL). Complicated? Sure, but people ARE complicated and not everyone feels the same. As for Andrea's professionalism, I don't think there's any question there - she IS. And I can't speak to what other countries and journalists use, but the fact is that whether it's understood or accepted by you, 'queer' and 'gender-queer' are legitimate identifiers.
Cassidy, Toronto ON
10/24/11 4:43 PM EST
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Yes, but...
Cassidy, even if I buy everything you wrote (and there's no reason for me not to apart from its smug tone and smarmy self-righteousness), none it justifies Xtra exploiting "Canada's gay magazine" as a platform for left-wing b*llsh*t. Words do matter, and some wingnut at Xtra has apparently decided that we are all to be called "queer" now. I personally don't know a single soul who self identifies as queer and the word is barely used at all in the American and international gay press. Only Xtra uses it. They should stop because it is seriously annoying at least this reader. Who knows how many readers are annoyed by this. But then I suppose, since Xtra has no serious competition yet, they can do whatever they want and still pull in sufficient advertising. I hope someone starts up a serious gay news outlet soon, because Xtra is a joke.
Jim, Toronto Ontario
10/24/11 5:27 PM EST
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No "queer" in The Advocate
Not a single reference to queer in the Advocate: http://www.advocate.com/ Check it out yourself. And you'll also find actual a lot more news there. A gay murdered in Scotland, for example, rather than shoo'ed out of Tim Hortons. The merger of the two gay Olympic organizations. Where are those stories in Xtra??
Jim, Toronto Ontario
10/24/11 5:34 PM EST
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There is the truth
The pastor DID NOT KNOW that it was a lesbian couple. LOOK AT THEIR PICTURE. Can you tell if they are male/female?? There was NO PRAYER VIGIL. This is just an attempt by "this community" to cause discourse amongst the people!!!
Dr. Fire, ChathamKent Ontario
10/24/11 6:31 PM EST
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Lies and whining
@Jim: you're either lying, stupid, or incapable of using the Internet (or possibly a combination thereof). When I put "queer" into the Advocate's search form, I get 37,400 results. Further, NGLJA's style guide (http://www.nlgja.org/resources/stylebook.html) includes the term "queer." The word is used - get over it. Besides, you shouldn't be wasting your time on Xtra (which, by the way, targets more than gay men.. It's even in the masthead!), but launching and funding your own "gay" publication. Good luck with that.
Dan, Toronto Ontario
10/24/11 6:45 PM EST
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Good for Tims!
I actually hate Tims, but how are customers supposed to eat with two ugly, ugly people making out in a restaurant?
Steve, Toronto Ont
10/24/11 7:39 PM EST
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shallow and queer
Steve you are a shallow little asshole with serious issues if you cannot appreciate that most people fall in love with the person and not their appearance. Appearance may get someone noticed but it has nothing to do with love, at least not any sort of love that lasts longer than one night. I have noticed that queer seems to be more commonly used in Canada than the US, but of course queer is used in the US too. I've also found that in the US the word homosexual is used far more often than in Canada, and gay is more often used to refer to all sex/gender/orientation minorities in the US than in Canada. Of course it only makes sense that there are regional differences in how certain words are used. I much prefer the word queer myself and I will refer to myself as queer, or gay, or a fag, mo or poofter, whatever word I feel like to identify my sexual orientation/gender, it changes depending if I'm with friends, strangers or aquaintences or whoever. I think queer is by far the best word used to describe all sex/gender/orientation minorities. Its not like Xtra's use of it in any way affects what anyone else calls themselves personally, but using the word gay to refer to all LGBTQ people or even just to all GLB people is definitely a no go in my opinion. Queer is inclusive of all of us regardless of our sexual orientation gender identity/expression. We are stronger together instead of splitting off into our own little minority forts having nothing to do with anyone else. I know some would want to see that happen because they want nothing to do with lesbians, bisexuals, or god forbid any sort of trans people. Such people should feel free to hide away in their little minority forts and never to come out into the real world again.
Rich, Toronto Ontario
10/24/11 8:43 PM EST
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Too Much
I can understand the feeling of the couple who were asked to leave. But at th same time Tim Hortons IIIIS a family restaurant. I find it hard to belive that a whole company reverand and customers would ALL get together to create some big story about a couple (Gay, Lesbian or Straight) just cause someone was offended. In a place such as Timmies theres a level of respect patrons must show. a church youth group being in there should for anyone (again striahgt gay or lesbian) should know that public affection san wait. And as for the prayer circle in the parking lot? thats a right for anyone to express and practice religious believes and acts anywhere and at any time. In the above story it mentions one of the women stated that she was so embarassed that she wanted to leave anyway. Then why would they make up such a huge deal about it and plaster it all over fb and the news. theres no need for any of this. Im not saying you dont have the right to make a complaint but really to go to this length and post the reverands number and name is just wrong. it seems today that ppl will make up any excuse they can to start a big fuss. The manager was asked by a felow customer to stop what was happening form happening so it obviously was offensive. the managers job is to ensure customer satisfaction. theres a time and place for everything. that was not the time or place in my opinion. i for one support Tim HOrtons veiws in this matter. theres a better to go about all this.
Unbiased, Sarnia ontario
10/24/11 8:56 PM EST
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Simply...
Wouldn't it be quite simple for Tim's to show us the video? It's 2011 -- there's always video. A vague statement like "The guests' behaviour went beyond public displays of affection" just doesn't cut it, because we've heard it all too often before in similar cases and it has been false. To some people, just being out is "beyond PDA". And Jim, please deal with the word "queer", which has been an acceptable term for years and years. If you prefer the US and UK to Canada, what's stopping you from moving? Could it be Canada is a better place for queer/gay/all people? I think your terminology is more objectionable. Really: "a gay" instead of "a gay man"?
Randy, Windsor ON
10/25/11 12:56 AM EST
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TO: Simply
you would think so except theres a provacy issue involved and the fact that in order to allow the video to be posted would involve a court process ect would take months to be able to release the footage and the womenin question would have to sign a release form. and some how i doubt they will do that
Too Much, Sarnia ontario
10/25/11 2:53 AM EST
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Jim, I'm a lover not a fighter...
@Jim, Hi Jim, my apologies if my response to your statements/questions regarding 'queer' and 'gender queer' rubbed you the wrong way - my words were sincere, and not intended to come off smug or smarmy, PROMISE! I have many friends and acquaintances who prefer the word queer, and know others who use the term 'gender queer' to refer to themselves. What else would you have Andrea Houston use, since that's how one of the two people that the article is about identify themselves?
Cassidy, Toronto Ontario
10/25/11 11:29 AM EST
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QUEER, GAY, STRAIGHT...THAT'S NOT THE POINT
Why are we fighting over a title? I call myself Queer sometimes, mostly because I know it bothers some straight people. That's not the point. We don't have video footage of the events as they transpired (as far as I know), so we can only deduce from what we've been told. If this couple was with extended family members, including mom, I find it hard to believe that their behaviour was so "inappropriate" that it warranted managerial intervention. That being said, the offended minister did make a complaint and the couple was reprimanded. In reference to the prayer circle, who could make that up? Not finding that so difficult to believe. I grew up with evangelicals and there's not a lot that doesn't offend them. I still have friends from high school praying for me to "come to accept Jesus Christ" as my personal saviour, and I graduated in '85. They used to have prayer circles for me even before I officially came out! I'm glad this couple is standing up for their rights as human beings in this country. FYI, it's not illegal to hold hands in public, nor is illegal to peck a loved one on the cheek. This is Canada after all, not Egypt. Heck, just in case some of you (trolls who've found your way here via a link to the article) have forgotten, we Queers have been allowed to marry in Canada since 2005. Still not used to it? Tough luck!
Gigi, Toronto ON
10/25/11 12:08 PM EST
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Ali Gothard, Does the Reverend have X-RAY Visions
The pastor said he had no idea the couple were anything but hetero, and he saw them sitting outside the window, grabbing each other's crotches. Ali, how could the good reverend see what these women were doing, if they were seated on the bench outside, and the back of the bench blocks the view from the restaurant?
Mr. Enemabag Jones, Anytown Ontario
10/25/11 1:42 PM EST
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Hey Dan
You, Dan, are definitely "queer". Feel free to use the word as much as you want. And, yes, you can add "bitch" to that, too. My point is valid, despite your sophomoric post. I was talking about the home page and headlines. SGFY. But seriously, the word queer is also not prominently used as an endonym in the Pink News. It's used once in Australia's StarOnline, but only to refer to an alternative artist (a proper use in my view). No, I'm afraid Xtra is unique in the world in shoving the word "queer" down everyone's throats.
Jim, Toronto Ontario
10/25/11 4:14 PM EST
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Tim Horton's has a history with this..
Two lesbians kiss on the cheek in front of their mom are asked to leave the Tim Hortons. And Tim Hortons wants us to believe this is an isolated incident. How short are your memories? Take a look at this from 2009: http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2009/08/10/tim-hortons-marriage023.html
Tom Hooper, Toronto Ontario
10/25/11 6:19 PM EST
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Is the truth important?
As noted in other news below, the version of event as stated by Rev. Eric Revie may has truth in it. Note that a gay witness and a transgender LGBTQ activist support him: http://www.chathamdailynews.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=3344864 http://life.nationalpost.com/2011/10/25/tim-hortons-protest-hits-snag-as-lesbian-and-gay-community-back-pastor/
S P Arif Sahari Wibowo, Edmonton AB
10/25/11 6:51 PM EST
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Jim
Jim, you are such a loser.... instead of worrying about supporting the couple that were given the Timmie Horton love special, you're sitting here going on about the words that they use to identify themselves... should Andrea re-write the story to please you rather than the queers that were actually mistreated? You claim the Advocate doesn't use the word queer?? It's just a dumb thing for you to say! How about this: you wanna re-write Andrea's story so the same thing happens, only back in 1970? Go for it... the Crotchety Old Gay Fart Weekly ain't gonna publish itself!
xox secret lover, Toronto ON
10/26/11 2:48 AM EST
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Oh, Jim..
Jim, I'm gay. Like you, I don't personally subscribe to queer. Unlike you, I don't go on a tear whining how "queer" is shoved down anyone's throat, try to use the term as a pejorative (which is itself very funny), calling people who disagree with your worldview bitches and telling them to go fuck themselves. But that's ok.. your words are ultimately amusing, so, thanks and stay classy, you big ol' gay!
Dan, Toronto ON
10/26/11 9:53 AM EST
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Reverend's Claims don't seem that plausible...
Honestly, the claims the reverend is making don't seem to add up with the actual context of the social situation the couple were in. Am I supposed to believe that, according to the pastor, the couple were sitting there "straddling one another, tongues locked, with hands down each others' clothes in the crotch area and chest area, grabbing genitals" while having a lovely afternoon coffee with one of couple's mother, brother, cousin and 6 more of their closest family and friends? I just don't see that happening. It makes more sense that they were having coffee with family and friends, and that they were doing as they said: one having their arm around the other, pecks on the cheek. Kind seems more logical as far as what one would do in front of one's mother/brother... If what the pastor said was true, then I would think the mother would be the first one to say something about their "basically having sex" in front of her.
T, Toronto ON
10/26/11 10:47 AM EST
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Reverend's claims don't seem likely...
Honestly, the claims the reverend is making don't seem to add up with the actual context of the social situation the couple were in. Am I supposed to believe that, according to the pastor, the couple were sitting there "straddling one another, tongues locked, with hands down each others' clothes in the crotch area and chest area, grabbing genitals" while having a lovely afternoon coffee with one of couple's mother, brother, cousin and 6 more of their closest family and friends? I just don't see that happening. It makes more sense that they were having coffee with family and friends, and that they were doing as they said: one having their arm around the other, pecks on the cheek. Kind seems more logical as far as what one would do in front of one's mother/brother... If what the pastor said was true, then I would think the mother would be the first one to say something about their "basically having sex" in front of her.
TH, Toronto ON
10/26/11 10:48 AM EST
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Why Wait?
To become a Christian you must realize that you are a sinner in need of a saviour. Until that happens you will remain a sinner, for we all were born with that nature. If I lie, steal, cheat, murder, rape, fornicate, commit adultery, or get drunk, secretly or openly I am a sinner and am under God's righteous judgement upon all such behaviour. I am the sum total of the choices that I make in life. God gave me a free will. I will not recognize my need for a saviour until the bondage of sin is so complete that I am completely under its control. How do you know when you are a slave of sin? Try stopping on your own and you will discover its overwhelming strength to the point of hopelessness. Why do we have groups like AA. I think most if not all people have an area in their life where they find it impossible to get victory in order to show their absolute need for a saviour, Christ the Lord. This is known as a "besetting sin." Determine to get free from it with God's help. "If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and CLEANSE us from ALL unrighteousness" That is not simply religious talk but the reality of the Christian life. It is not easy but it is possible. We must above all conform our lives to the will of God and HIS standards and not simply do "what is right in our own eyes" and then ask for God's stamp of approval. It won't happen. God is HOLY. Christ is the answer. Christ came to save us. Let Him. "Judge not lest ye be judged". There is a big difference between judging and "speaking the truth in love". I will let you decide which it is that I have done. From one who has been at the bottom. He can and will "restore your s
Lance, Enniskillen On
10/26/11 11:34 PM EST
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Lance, there is no God
Lance, there is no God. There is no Allah. The Bible, the Koran and all religious texts are just delusion. Gay men, lesbians and bisexuals are just human beings who are sexually attracted to members of their own sex. At the end of the day, it's just a little fluid on the bed sheets.
David, Toronto Ontario
10/26/11 11:46 PM EST
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Religious Slavery
Lance: You're telling LGBT to live a lonely and miserable life of self-denial. Why? Because one must ignore all reason, evidence and education when it comes to sexual orientatin and submit to religious authority. This only appeals to slaves and fools. It seems like a very limited free will which says you may do as I command without question, or else be punished horribly. You'd think the so-called most intelligent being in the universe would have a more sophisticated way of appealing to us besides fear. Religion is wrong on this, as it has been on many other issues. Only in abandoning the invisible sky daddy will we gain knowledge and move forward.
Reece, Toronto ON
10/27/11 1:08 AM EST
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They look like morons
I support these two, BUT ..is that the best pic you could come up with? Sad. Only functionally retarded people could possibly drink Tim Horton's "coffee". Seriously, how could any self-respecting gay person be caught dead in that white trash, welfare-budget shit-serving donut shop?
ron, Vancouver Bc
10/27/11 3:54 AM EST
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Reece/David
Thanks for your comments. From the universe to the atom, we live in an incredibly ordered world that did not happen by chance and the order that we observe is based on laws that govern this order. It is the laws of gravity, thermodynamics, chemical reaction, flight,the water cycle, seed and harvest etc. all interacting with each other in unbelievable complexity and variety that make up our world. If we break any of the laws of the physical world there will be consequences. Break the laws of lift and thrust and your plane will be on the ground in pieces. Why is it so hard to believe then that the same is not true in the moral and spiritual dimension? Breaking these laws bring consequences. Faith,love, hope, beauty,creativity only exist in the heart of man because he is made in the image of God. Can we tangibly or physically hold these qualities like we can a rock yet we would never deny that they exist. God is love. Everything He does is done in love and wisdom. HIS laws are for our good because breaking them brings us great harm. Yet God loves us enough to allow us to choose what we will do. Would we think a parent really loved a child if he gave that child no guidance, instruction, direction or discipline but rather said " Hey just do whatever you want because in the end it really doesn't matter?" Sin is the breaking of the laws of God.
Lance, Enniskillen On
10/27/11 8:01 PM EST
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gimmie a break
There is a place for everything and infront of a tim hortons IS NOT THE PLACE!!!!!! Dont care what sexual orientation you are being a family member of one of them you should have known better! Your making more of this because of your sexual status keep that seperate to your self and stop using it as a crutch as an excuse for who you are. If it was two hederol teens they would have been told the same and no unessary publicity!!!!
me, hamilton ontario
10/29/11 5:29 PM EST
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I want to see
the security video!
chiles, toronto on
10/29/11 8:33 PM EST
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To ron...
I agree the couple do look "special" but steady yourself there buddy about your white trash rant...you're risking exposure.
Chris, toronto on
10/29/11 8:40 PM EST
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