Public pressure from Pride sponsorship nothing new: TD Bank
TORONTO NEWS / Sponsor looks to Pride Toronto for leadership
Scott Dagostino / Toronto / Tuesday, April 13, 2010
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TD Bank at the 2009 Toronto Pride Parade.
(Flickr: sweetone, Neal Jennings photo, CC 2.0 licence)
“We’re not exactly neophytes when it comes to controversy around our sponsorship of Pride,” says Scott Mullin, vice president of government and community relations at TD Bank Financial Group. “Our support for Pride has been unequivocal since we started as a sponsor five years ago,” he explains, despite taking “a fair bit of grief.”
 
“We had people pull their money out of the bank, we had churches north of Toronto start a campaign to pull business out of the bank,” Mullin says, “and we remained very steadfast in saying that we thought it was important for us as a company to make the statement we were making.”
 
In a March 30 letter to Tracey Sandilands, executive director of Pride Toronto, Mullin reiterates TD’s support but adds, “I will be honest and say that it has become increasingly challenging to do so,” following Pride’s reversal of its new and controversial policy of vetting all parade groups and signs.
 
“We’ve asked for a meeting,” Mullin says. “I don’t think it’s unreasonable to write a letter asking what’s going on.” The TD exec says, “we have indicated a bit of frustration, to be honest, because we too have stakeholders and customers and clients who write to us with views on this topic.”

Mullin says the bank is looking to Pride for guidance and not seeing any: “Pride came up with a policy and one week later, completely changed their minds on that policy and didn’t bother to tell folks like sponsors who were using what Pride had decided on as a way of responding ourselves to people who were expressing concerns. Any sponsor — whether a bank, a beer company or a government — will reach a point at which questions start to get asked.”
 
Pride’s aborted “freedom of expression” policy came about after arguments over the inclusion of the group Queers Against Israeli Apartheid (QuAIA).

Activist Rick Telfer posted Mullin’s letter to Pride on his website and on Facebook, where he wrote, “I think the subtext of the letter is pretty clear…‘We don't like certain activists. We want them out.’”
 
Not at all, insists Mullin.

“We approached this from the get-go knowing that it would have controversy, and we’re not afraid of that, but we want to be involved in an event that is inclusive, that is welcoming, that is celebratory, that focuses on issues that matter to the community and realizes that some of those issues are edgy, difficult and protest-related.”
 
Activists like Telfer argue that issues of Palestinian freedom or human rights abuses very much matter to the community — does the TD exec agree?

“Absolutely,” says Mullin. “That is a view. We don’t have a view on that question. What we do have concerns about — and I think we’re not alone — is that the event needs to be cognizant of sensitivities on both sides. There is no question that for most people, people marching in a Pride parade wearing swastikas is not a very welcoming and inclusive signal to a broad Toronto community.”
 
Mullin, of course, is referring to QuAIA’s use of a red circle with a line through the swastika — not the symbol by itself, as opponents like Reclaiming Our Pride creator Martin Gladstone have asserted — but Mullin says the distinction doesn’t matter. Anti or not, he says, “the symbol itself is very unpleasant and legimately so. I would hope that these people would have the same strong views on legislation in Uganda which looks a lot closer to the era of the swastika in terms of an issue for the LGBT community.”
 
Ultimately, says Mullin, “there is a line of acceptability that Pride has to take some responsibility for in ensuring that all members of the community feel welcome at the event. I don’t pretend that it’s easy to find that line, but there is certainly a strong group of people who feel that line has been crossed and any sponsor — whether a bank, a beer company or a government — will reach a point at which questions start to get asked.”
 
On that last point, Mullin insists that TD Bank Financial Group is not the only group asking Pride for a meeting.

Don Wanagas, director of communications for Mayor David Miller, says, “City staff are meeting with the Pride board to discuss the situation. The mayor will not be in a position to comment until staff have reported back on the outcome of that meeting.”

Until that meeting takes place, the City of Toronto has remained silent on the issue of Pride funding, but Mullin darkly hints, “I do know that the city has expressed concerns about the event’s positioning vis-à-vis policies the city has around events that it sponsors, endorses and allows to have happen.”
 
For the bank, Mullin says, it comes down to a simple question:

“What is the Pride board’s view of the nature of this event? The challenge Pride has is not whether people personally disagree but more the extent to which language is used that crosses a line. There’s going to be different views of that line, and we’re trying to understand where Pride is going to come out on an issue that we are caught in the middle between.”
 
“I guess we’ll see how things unfold,” Mullin says, but adds, “I hope in the process we don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.”


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Reader Comments


 
fair enough
The concerns raised by TD sound fair enough to me and I think I understand their concerns, they're getting flack for sponsoring Pride because some feel only one point of view of the Israel/Palestine conflict should be tolerated and TD doesn't know where Pride Inc stands on the issue themselves. I would hope that certain groups don't try to take down the entire Pride organization because they aren't supporting the censorship of QuAIA, that would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Probably the same groups who are trying to get the TDSB to ban a book that's sympathetic to Palestinians by calling it hate mongering even though there's nothing in it that even comes remotely close to hate speech, I've been told though I've never read it myself, but for some, as we've all seen and heard, being sympathetic to Palestinians is seen as being anti-semitic. The attempts to force Pride to censor QuAIA and the attempts to get the TDSB to ban that book, I forget its name off hand are part of the same problem. I wonder why we never hear from Palestinians or other Muslim Arabs demands that the pro-Israel slant which is in the vast majority of news reports and stories from the region be censored or banned. Perhaps they realize its unrealistic so don't even bother trying. I have great sympathy for Pride Inc for having to deal with this issue and all our lives would be so much more pleasant if the Israel/Palestine conflict were finally settled and a fully independent functional Palestinian state was finally formed. I'd be very grateful if I'd never heard about either side ever again, however I do support he right of QuAIA to bring it up since ultimately any basic social justice issue is a queer issue and I support the right of pro-Israel/pro-occupation groups to oppose QuAIA so long as they keep it civil.
Rich, Toronto Ontario
04/13/10 7:28 PM EST
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This issue does not belong in the Pride parade
Pride is a gay parade and should be restricted to gay issues. Israeli-Palestinian politics simply do not belong in the Pride parade. Some gay people oppose Israeli policies towards Palestine and thus they think that this makes it a "gay" issue but this is complete nonsense. Many gay people are also concerned about public transit, high taxes, the crappy Maple Leafs hockey team, and the exchange rate for the Indian rupee, among other things, but these are not specifically "gay" issues and also do not belong in the Pride parade. However political activists tend to be very full of themselves and reasoning with them is always impossible so you simply slam the door in their faces, just like with any persistent boor, and do what is necessary to protect the integrity and focus of the parade. How many of those who scream "censorship" in this case would also tolerate anti-gay or neo-nazi groups marching in the Pride parade? The Pride parade has developed a certain brand name and awareness over the years resulting from the work of thousands of volunteers over 30 years and there are always a few parasitical activists who would like to get a free ride in promoting their pet non-gay causes by exploiting this brand name just as is the case with any popular brand name. However the Pride organization has both a right and a duty to protect its brand name from being exploited and cheapened in this way by excluding non-gay content by telling these activists to find another venue to pursue their non-gay political interests. The PLO, Hezbollah, and Iran are certainly not gay-friendly and in fact Iran, a major backer of the PLO, prescribes the death penalty for gay people just for the "crime" of being gay. Does QUAIA also support the death penalty for gays? Love me, love my dog, and this is one dog I definitely would like to avoid and this fundamentally anti-gay group really does not belong in the Pride parade.
Yours Truly, Toronto Ontario
04/13/10 7:57 PM EST
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@ Rich
I support the right of pro-Israel/pro-occupation groups to oppose QuAIA so long as they keep it civil. We are Civil and I saw people only celebrating Gay Pride in Israel and they were not calling to violently overthrow the only country in the Middle East with Gay Rights but when Anti Israel Groups such as the QuAIA don't get their way they are the ones that use violence, personal insults or even threats.
Charles, Halifax Nova Scotia
04/14/10 12:18 AM EST
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@ Rich
So why is the QuAIA even making threats to TD? if anyone doesn't believe this it can be seen here: http://www.ricktelfer.ca/pride/ I thought the QuAIA does not believe in this kind of activity and even claims not to endorse it and gives another reason why they don't belong in pride or is not a Gay Rights group they really sound a lot like the KKK or even Neo Nazis' if they are making threats to the sponsor? really?
Charles, Halifax Nova Scotia
04/14/10 2:38 AM EST
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Israeli apartheid is an LGBT issue
Many contingents in the Pride parade celebrate activities that are not directly related -- or that are not at all related -- to "LGBT issues." Singing, dancing, the outdoors, religious denominations, corporate enterprises, etc. -- many come to mind. Pride is about advancing LGBT issues, yes, but it's also about diversity within the LGBT community and the many contributions made to wider society by members of the LGBT community. The group Queers Against Israeli Apartheid (QuAIA) is, at the very least, a group of LGBT people (hence "Queer") working on a particular political issue. Beyond that, the political issue -- Israeli apartheid -- is easily understood as an LGBT issue for various reasons. For example, Israel does not extend full equality rights to all LGBT people within the boundaries it controls -- and yet Israel promotes itself as a bastion of liberal democracy and tolerance/acceptance. It's bullshit. Personally, I'm not going to let Israel use my oppression -- i.e., the oppression of LGBT people -- as a PR tool to distract us all from its flagrant human rights violations. On the other side of Israel's apartheid wall, LGBT people suffer immensely. So, to Israel I say: TEAR DOWN THE WALL, QUEER LIBERATION NOW! QuAIA has an excellent FAQ available at: http://queersagainstapartheid.org/faq/
Rick, London Ontario
04/14/10 3:34 AM EST
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@Rick
Israel has full Gay Rights been that way since about 1963 and this includes does Gay Palestinians since Gays since many due live in Tel Aviv are hated by Palestinians society which is not Israel fault for that and why is the QuAIA FAQ website they only web site you cite? lack of information? and Israel is liberal democracy like Canada or even the United States and tell me Rick How did Apartheid even start to begin with? Do you have the answers for this? and maybe you should tell the United States to TEAR DOWN THE WALL with Mexico as well or wait did you even knew they had one sounds like Apartheid? Rick by only quoting one website shows that but I have many such as:http://out.com/detail.asp?id=22719 http://www.out.com/detail.asp?t=travel&id=24739 http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/love-sex/taboo-tolerance/the-five-most-improved-places-for-gay-tolerance-932635.html http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3644715,00.html are just a few Not Gay Friendly? Cum on the Out games for example the QuAIA sounds more like the KKK since they seem to have a lot in common with these people and a note to TD don't listen them them if they restored the threats then they have been exposed is rather common of the Far Left to do something like something and they don't speak for the LGBT Community but rather their own political interests.
Charles, Halifax Nova Scotia
04/14/10 4:13 AM EST
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@ Rick
Gay Rights in Israel (http://www.bilerico.com/2008/04/israel_at_the_forefront_of_gay_rights.php) (http://www.gaytlvguide.com/start-here/gay-rights-in-israel) here a book on the issue:(http://books.google.com/books?id=zsmkP46V_AUC&pg=PA160&dq=Gay+Rights+in+Israel&hl=en&ei=CXzFS7LXHoHGlQfF7ZiDDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CEsQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=Gay%20Rights%20in%20Israel&f=false) (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2400237.stm) (http://www.forward.com/articles/1125/) (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2008/06/israel-gay-prid.html) are not gay friendly in Israel? or you just going to cite QuAIA site or even Tel Aviv Club Attack which was condemned by everyone in Israeli Society well that is on the QuAIA website and every time this pops into extra it seems that more and more see it not to be a gay rights group and TD would nor had to action on this only if a lot of people in the LGBT community must of complained about it and it not that hard to put two and two together Rick or are you going to resorted to threats or even personal insults again which does not belong in Pride either and is another reason why the QuAIA is not a gay rights group or is a middle eastern war a LGBT issue??
Charles, Halifax Nova Scotia
04/14/10 4:42 AM EST
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Pride is a day for GAY unity
Pride is OUR parade for focusing on OUR issues. Why should we let it be hijacked by groups who want to exploit it for their own political agenda? You want to protest something other than homophobia - go get your own parade!
William, Montreal QC
04/14/10 9:21 AM EST
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@charles What Threats?
Mr. Tefler's letter outlines what he feels is an appropriate approach to sponsorship by the bank, outlines the benefits of such a sponsorship and makes the valid point that the Pride Parade has always been political and controversial. It concludes by asking TD to clarify its position and to choose a side. Grammatically and structurally, the letter is a request. If it were a threat, it have concluded with an indication of negative consequences to come or some other form of retribution should the request not been honoured. Clearly, no such consequences are mentioned in Mr. Tefler's letter.
Jacob, Toronto Ontario
04/14/10 10:46 AM EST
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QaIA
I have written before; the Articles of Chritable Incorporation states that Pride Toronto exiists to "Celebrate queer culture in the Toronto area". What the hell do QaIA have to do with the purpose of Pride. It used to be a celebration of our queer culture. Now its embracing "Anti-Zionism" How au currant. As a Jew I no longer feel safe at the parade..I will no longer attend. Ironic since I will be partying at Pride in Tel Aviv WITH my Israeli Arab gay friends and Jews. We all get along better than fine. Toronto and Berkley. Sick of both city's sanctimonious "activists who have no clue of the complexities and realities of the middle east. If you are gay in neighbouring Egypt or Jordan or esp the Palestinian territories you are subject to death. In Israel, you may get cruised to death.....I support TD and hope they pull all their funding. Love to see QaIA actually go to the middle east and parade in Gaza...now that would be inspired ....
Brian, Toronto ON
04/14/10 11:19 AM EST
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The Zionist/Israel Lobby is hijacking Pride
For example, see: (1) 'Pro-Israel lobbyists threaten funding for Toronto's gay pride', May 27/09 (http://tinyurl.com/pvdmva); (2) 'Pride Toronto stands its ground against pro-Israel lobbyists', May 31/09 (http://tinyurl.com/qej8gp); (3) 'Gay panic at the CJC and Toronto Star', Jul. 11/09 (http://tinyurl.com/ndfcb7). Queers Against Israeli Apartheid (QuAIA) is a group of LGBT activists working for FULL equality rights for LGBT people in Israel/Palestine. QuAIA has every right to participate in the Pride parade; it is a pro-peace human rights contingent. On the other hand, what do the CJC and B'nai Brith have to do with Pride? Why are they trying to hijack our parade with their non-LGBT Zionist agenda? I suppose we shouldn't be too surprised; they're also trying to hijack our school system (http://tinyurl.com/y3axf2g) and universities (http://tinyurl.com/ygb4gz5). You want the truth on Israel/Palestine? I recommend Dr. Norman Finkelstein's honest and rigorous scholarship; see: http://tinyurl.com/8g47mf
Rick, London Ontario
04/14/10 1:45 PM EST
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@ Rick
you ever thought that a lot of people in the LGBT community are Jewish too even Orthodox Jews and I really know how much you love them too just a thought and how does Norman Finkelstein have to do with Pride? also more evidence that the QuAIA is not a Gay Rights group when Norman Finkelstein is brought into the picture and since it does not have to do with Pride then the QuAIA is a Anti-Israel Group more or more like the KKK since even they use the CJC and B'nai Brith are PR tools Rick, so I gust the QuAIA= the Gay KKK and KKK uses the same cards as you did even if your really blinded by that
Charles, Halifax Nova Scotia
04/14/10 2:13 PM EST
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Queers Appeasing Islamic Aggression
The Queers Appeasing Islamic Aggression are a political hate-group that has nothing to do with the promotion of gay rights, which is the purpose of pride. Sadly, Xtra doesn't appear to understand the meaning of the word "censorship". The Pride committee can decide if they can participate, but the city and citizens can exercise their rights by not providing funds and by boycotting sponsors. No one is preventing QAIA them from expressing their views but if they want to participate in an event, the event organizers and sponsors have a right to determine what is appropriate and whether or not to fund it. That is very different than physically preventing someone from speaking. If a government passes a law that says you can't print something, that's censorship. If a newspaper refuses to print your letter, or if a parade refuses to let you participate, it isn't. The QAIA are free to say what they like publicly and can even hold their own hate parade to coincide with Israeli Apartheid Week in March. If they're lucky, maybe one of their members will be made Grand Marshall.
Greg, Toronto Ontario
04/14/10 5:21 PM EST
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Zionist agenda, Rick?
What is the Zionist agenda in the Pride parade? Please quote any sign you saw that supports this alleged agenda.
Peter, Hamilton ON
04/14/10 5:31 PM EST
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TD Yea . . . & nay
TD has been a wonderful sponsor of Pride, although my impression is they have toned down their sponsorship as a result of blow back. My concern is that Toronto Pride is a GTA event, yet in TD Branches outside the Village area, there is no mention of or celebration of TD's sponsorship. Other events TD supports, such as the Toronto Jazz Festival, are publicized. What does this say to queers outside the Village and to TD employees who work in these locations? BMO had a very large contingent in the 2008 Pride parade; they were impressive in their blue t-shirts and were very celebratory and enthusiastic. In 2009 they had a small low-key group. I'm told the change was due to negative feedback.
DiCK, Toronto ON
04/14/10 7:32 PM EST
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@Charles - Gays Don't Have Real Rights in Israel
Charles, I don't know why you pick 1963 as some arbitrary date when gays got equal rights in Israel. While Israeli gays who happen to be Jewish certainly have more rights than in some neighbouring countries, remember that Israeli citizens who are not Jewish have essentially no rights. And even Jewish Israeli gays and lesbians cannot access protections the LGBT community in Canada can. There is no same sex marriage; in fact - there is no civil marriage at all. A Jew cannot marry a Christian or Muslim or Atheist inside Israel. Queers cannot sponsor their same sex partner for citizenship, and non-Jews cannot sponsor anyone at all. Yes - if you were born in Jerusalem and you are not Jewish, you cannot meet a Canadian and bring them back to your country. Palestinian gays face the double threat of discrimination from their own communities, and repression from the Israeli occupation; they have lost their land, face military violence, and are often forced to collaborate and become informants for the Israeli army with threats they will be outed if they do not. QuAIA never appeared until the Israeli state started to pretend that it was some bastion of human rights for gays. This attempt to white wash, or "pinkwash" Israel's human rights record must be challenged. We know you can't simultaneously be a defender of human rights while bombing schools and hospitals with white phosphorus, and occupying a people for generations. If Israel is serious about human rights, it will end their military occupation, pass a human rights code, and criminalize discrimination and hate crimes against all minority groups - Arabs, queers, and others. In the mean time, as long as their pinkwashing campaign continues, QuAIA should continue fighting back.
EKS, Montreal QC
04/14/10 9:08 PM EST
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TD - SOB (South Of the Border
Now that the TD has raised its profile in the USA by rebranding its American operation "TD Bank - America's Most Convenient Bank" it will be interesting to watch if powerful and moneyed conservative groups influence TD's support of Pride. Or if TD enthusiastically sponsors Pride in Boston, New York, Philly . . .
DiCK, Toronto ON
04/14/10 9:28 PM EST
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EKS, Montreal QC
Here's a book that explains that yes they do EKS sorry that the QuAIA has so much misinformation or would this be on the QuAIA book burning list? (http://books.google.com/books?id=zsmkP46V_AUC&pg=PA160&dq=Gay+Rights+in+Israel&hl=en&ei=DGzGS77DJYSclgedvpiBDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CEsQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=Gay%20Rights%20in%20Israel&f=false) Equal rights???
Charles, Halifax N
04/14/10 9:31 PM EST
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EKS, Montreal QC
. Palestinian gays face the double threat of discrimination from their own communities, and repression from the Israeli occupation; they have lost their land, face military violence, and are often forced to collaborate and become informants for the Israeli army with threats they will be outed if they do not. QuAIA never appeared until the Israeli state started to pretend that it was some bastion of human rights for gays. __________________________________________ being gay been legal since 1963 but the Problems of Gay Palestinians are not Israel's problem when the PNA governors the Affairs of Palestinians which under Palestians Law it's illegal and please explain why do gay Palestians are force to live in Tel Aviv then???? Or has the QuAIA made up something again like FAQ Page which they don't even have sources to back up their claims I do (http://www.bilerico.com/2008/04/israel_at_the_forefront_of_gay_rights.php) (http://www.gaytlvguide.com/start-here/gay-rights-in-israel) here a book on the issue:(http://books.google.com/books?id=zsmkP46V_AUC&pg=PA160&dq=Gay+Rights+in+Israel&hl=en&ei=CXzFS7LXHoHGlQfF7ZiDDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CEsQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=Gay%20Rights%20in%20Israel&f=false) (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2400237.stm) (http://www.forward.com/articles/1125/) (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2008/06/israel-gay-prid.htm Just didn't like the Truth might have exposed a Leftest Group for their true agenda?? they usually resort to these kind of things when exposed. INTERESTING so what is stopping the QuAIA from marching in Gaza or the West Bank I hear many of these kind of Groups do it all the time and what Stopping the QuAIA?? Can't get life insurance that covers suicide? or Islamic extremism? GO TO GAZA IF YOU PEOPLE RELAY CARE WHAT'S STOPPING THE QuAIA THEN?
Charles, Halifax Nova Scotia
04/14/10 9:45 PM EST
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EKS, Montreal QC
Gay Rights by Country by the University of Alabama really No Gay Rights in Israel?? can the QuAIA explain this or is the Queers Appeasing Islamic Aggression going to give me their lie FAQ page again or Electronic Intifada its says that:--- 1963 - Israel decriminalizes de-facto sodomy and sexual acts between men by judicial decision against the enforcement of the relevant section in the old British- mandate law from 1936 (which in fact was never enforced). http://bama.ua.edu/~safezone/timeline.pdf wow just a thought also that old British- mandate law from 1936 (which in fact was never enforced)in Israel, the Palestinians Government use that law Against Palestinians Gays could explain why that many Gay Palestinian live in Israel then and the problem with Palestinians Gays is not Israel's fault and the source for that was (http://www.ilga.org/statehomophobia/ILGA_State_Sponsored_Homophobia_2009.pdf) and here what the same sites says about Israel (http://ilga.org/ilga/en/countries/ISRAEL/Law) Still want to say Gays in Israel have No rights and Israel even has Anti-discrimination laws? Very Interesting unlike what the QuAIA FAQ pages says and is another reason why they are not a gay rights group but a Anti Israel group or even a group like the KKK Very Very Interesting I hope TD see this or is the QuAIA covering up for something like how they are not a Gay Rights Group for one and more of a Hate Group but hides under RIGHTS care like the KKK or even Neo Nazis' do..
Charles, Halifax Nova Scotia
04/14/10 10:11 PM EST
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Zionist/Israel Lobby: Irrational hijackers + liars
PETER: I refer you to the links I posted earlier. The B'nai Brith is all over Pride -- hijacking it, that is. The interference is well document. CHARLES: I don't expect to reach agreement with you, especially because you routinely sling hyperbolic labels/lies like "KKK" and advance arguments that are (deliberate?) logical fallacies. Just ridiculous and totally irrational. History provides me with some comfort, though; it reveals that alarmists/propagandists and censors/book-burners ultimately lose. Is your name even "Charles"? Like the straight Zionists who are trying to hijack and define Pride, dishonesty is your weapon of choice -- and dishonesty stands diametrically opposed to democracy, and the opposite of democracy is fascism. Hence the anti-swastika symbol; it means "against fascism. I oppose the aggressive propaganda campaign of the Zionist/Israel Lobby, its pink-washing efforts, and its attempt to hijack Pride; I support freedom of expression within the limits presently enshrined in Canadian law. I oppose banning books; I support academic freedom. I oppose fascist tactics; I support democracy, truth, justice, and peace. I therefore support QuAIA and condemn the Zionist/Israel Lobby for its intimidation and interference. I am not alone -- not in the least! See: http://www.fragilefreedomatyorku.ca/ -- it's just one other battleground for truth and justice in a broad-based war being waged by neoconservatives and Zionists.
Rick, London Ontario
04/14/10 10:16 PM EST
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@ Rick
wow Rick you reject findings on LGBT rights done by academics on Israel and in Palestine that were done by people who study this ????? and Rick the KKK and Neo Nazi Groups also think that the B'nai Brith or Zionists or any Jewish Groups are interfering when they are just looking out for everyone in their community including Gay members of their community and the KKK or Neo Nazi's always blame Jewish Groups for something or another for almost anything just like the QuAIA is doing and by the nature of your comment I must have exposed something else you didn't like did I?? the Truth and Rick the Truth is not aggressive propaganda campaign of the Zionist/Israel Lobby or is it fascist tactics, the Left only says these things when they have been proven wrong your just a classic case and this might have proved why the QuAIA is not a Gay Rights group but a hate group since Rick they use that same language QuAIA= Hate Group not hard to put two and two together and playing the Gay/Right card? tell me what Straight person would read Xtra for example but I think I don't we need to play are you the Mossad, RCMP, or CSIS then? would make a lot of sense since I have studied these organizations activities and they are known to do things.
Charles, Halifax Nova Scotia
04/14/10 11:12 PM EST
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delayed dissent
If only more folks had stood up against nonsense groups like QuAIA last month when Pride was being virtually beaten down by a Facebook group. (Talk about a tempest in a teacup!) Rick from London has done a swell job being their spokesman on this thread, insisting that Pride be used as an unrestricted platform to condemn Israel in its border dispute with the Palestinian people... I mean who doesn't see how that relates to Lesbian Gay Bisexual and Transgender issues?!!? Oh but my bad, to not include every variety of global political activist is censorship, right? Did you hear that Georgian, Chechnyan, Tibetan, Basque, Quebecois nationals - alls you gotta do is slap the word 'Queer' on your protest sign and enjoy an open invitation to vent some stream down at the Toronto Pride parade! Pathetic..
Ryan, Toronto ON
04/15/10 12:08 AM EST
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Israeli apartheid is a queer issue
QuAIA provides a straightforward explanation on its website: http://queersagainstapartheid.org/faq/#02 -- so, if you disagree with QuAIA's position/argument, then address the argument directly. Of course, I don't expect any of supporters of the Zionist/Israel Lobby to do so -- because rational and logical argumentation only leads to the defeat of their untenable positions. Further, QuAIA is a group of LGBT activists; that alone makes it a part of the LGBT community. Additionally, Israeli apartheid IS a queer issue; again, see the straightforward explanation on QuAIA's website. Last year, Kulanu Toronto marched in the Pride parade. I ask you: How is that group related to LGBT issues? Explain, please.
Rick, London Ontario
04/15/10 3:29 AM EST
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So Rick what Zionist/Israel Lobby?
The 1936 British Mandate Law is a fact and is still enforced in Gaza and the West Bank by the Palestinian National Authority and Hamas that is what Gay Palestinians are faced not by Israel and but by the Palestinians themselves or can the QuAIA make up something else like how the QuAIA FAQ which seems to be the only source but it sounds a lot like propaganda here the evidence agian Rick (http://bama.ua.edu/~safezone/timeline.pdf) from the University of Alabama and here agian (http://www.ilga.org/statehomophobia/ILGA_State_Sponsored_Homophobia_2009.pdf) or are you going to give the QuAIA FAQ again which is more of propaganda then fact which was easily proving the QuAIA wrong and Israel does even allow Gay couples to adopt(http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3505079,00.html)or are you going to use the Zionist/Israel Lobby card again?? but if you do then I must be right and yes Rick I have when you said o, --if you disagree with QuAIA's position/argument, then address the argument directly-- wow that kind of sounds like Fascism when the evidence is rather clear that the QuAIA is wrong and seems to be hiding something like their love for Orthodox Jews for example.
Charles, Halifax Nova Scotia
04/15/10 4:01 AM EST
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To free LGBT Palestinians, end Israeli apartheid
Charles: Perhaps we don't disagree. The "1936 British Mandate Law" is a problem for LGBT Palestinians. Perhaps, then, a one state solution is in order; everyone under one state of liberal democracy. That would end the 1936 Law, and help to liberate LGBT Palestinians. However, so long as Israel locks them up behind walls, bombs them, and denies them citizenship, they will never be free. Thus, to free LGBT Palestinians, we must end Israeli apartheid. And that is precisely what QuAIA is campaigning for.
Rick, London Ontario
04/15/10 7:43 PM EST
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don't feel safe? get real
Brian if you honestly don't feel safe at Pride because QuAIA marches during the parade then the problem is that you suffer from paranoia. I highly doubt you or any other Jewish person doesn't feel safe at pride because of QuAIA, they aren't the least bit threatening no matter how much you disagree with them and don't like hearing what they have to say. If you're honestly not going to Pride because of QuAIA's presence then be at least be honest about it and say you're boycotting the parade in opposition to them and don't be making up lies about feeling unsafe around them, they aren't threatening in any way, the aren't anti-Jewsih or even anti-Israel for that matter, they're just in opposition to Israeli policies concerning the Palestinians, what is so threatening about that?
Rich, Toronto Ontario
04/15/10 7:59 PM EST
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lies and distortions disgusting
I get really sick and tired reading all the lies and distortions from folks like Charles. I finally got around to having a look at the QuAIA web site and found nothing there even remotely close to hate yet they are routinely labeled a hate group, I didn't even see anything that would suggest they're even anti-Israel even though they're very critical of Israeli policy concerning the Palestinians they aren't condemning the entire country like one would expect if they were an anti-Israel group like they've been portrayed. The comparisons to the KKK are utterly ridiculous and greatly minimize the destructive and violent actions and beliefs of the KKK, its the same as those who call people they don't like Nazis which also minimizes just how bad the Nazis were. If they really had a legitimate case against QuAIA marching in the parade then they wouldn't have to make up such lies in order to demonize them and could make their case using facts alone. Charles your example of a QuAIA member "threatening" TD is a joke, if that's what you consider a threat then I guess I understand why you consider QuAIA a hate group, you must live an extremely sheltered life and never got beyond a grade 3 education. That letter was much less harsh than many anti-QuAIA messages and the campaign to get sponsors to pull their Pride sponsorship over Pride allowing QuAIA to march. Those attempting to make sponsors stop supporting Pride over this issue are the only ones using threats, the anti-censorship side never attempted to get sponsors to stop their sponsorship over this issue. Imagine the glee of the anti-QuAIA side if Pride has to be scaled back because sponsors gave into their pressure tactics. Btw that video by Martin Gladstone was pure propaganda full of lies and distortions. Personally I think standing up for freedom which has defined the gay rights struggle right from the beginning and opposing censorship is worth losing sponsorship for, some things are not for sale.
Rich, Toronto Ontario
04/15/10 8:50 PM EST
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Charles your links don't conflict
Charles I checked out the links you provided as proof that the QuAIA faq page was lying, I've read the QuAIA faq page and found nothing there that was contradicted by the links you provided. QuAIA has never denied that there was some equality rights for gay and lesbians in Israel but they argue that they were over stated in PR campaigns and not applicable to all gays and lesbians living under Israeli control. There was nothing in those links you provided that contradicted anything on QuAIA's faq page, did you not read their faq for yourself or did you not think anyone would check out your links too?
Rich, Toronto Ontario
04/15/10 9:13 PM EST
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@ Rich @ Rick what Lies?
Wow that was Palestinian Law and done by people who study LBGT communities and rights all over the world but of course the QuAIA doesn't even have citations or and even say that Israel did end the 1936 British Mandate Law in 1963 but back then I believe the West Bank was in Jordan and Gaza was apart Egypt so it not Israel's problem with that one either you people disagree with books and Palestinian Law? why? it proves you wrong? and Israel is a Liberal Democracy such as the United States is and even they claim to be one even when they leave LGBT rights up to the Voters for example and Grade 3 education stop with the Personal insults Rich or Rick it a rather common tactic of the left when they have get when proven wrong they restore to something like this and yes for example Ricks comments do sound a lot like the KKK or even Neo Nazis' they blame Zionists or Jewish Groups for almost anything too as the QuAIA members has done and Rich(K) would a Apartheid State have anti discrimination laws for example? So tell me how and why Apartheid in South Africa Started and Why? @ Rick you have proven why the QuAIA is not Gay rights group so many times or how many more times do you need to be proven wrong?? and yes Rick the KKK and Neo Nazis say the same as your comments and a lot of your comments and you seem to blame Orthodox Jews but I do hope you do know that most Orthodox Jews are good people and don't have anything gays and Rick maybe the QuAIA might do very well at a Klan rally they hate Zionist too so do Nazis, ultra Nationalist in Europe, so does Al Qaeda and the QuAIA would just fit in better there and your comments are on the border line with Canada's Hate Crime laws its just a matter of time and Rick just ask some older members who claim to have CSIS files for example they might enlighten you on that and Rick that would not be a surprise if CSIS has an informant in your little Hate group just another thing you might want to think about.
Charles, Halifax Nova Scotia
04/15/10 10:33 PM EST
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'Charles' is likely just another straight Zionist
...trying to tell the LGBT community what defines Pride, and who should/shouldn't be allowed to participate, and what we can/can't protest. It's very clear now -- judging by his illogic and falsehoods -- that "Charles" (pseudonym?) is just another Bernie Farber (http://tinyurl.com/ndfcb7). The good thing about Zionist propagandists is that their "evidence" usually defeats their own arguments and, the more they blather, the more obvious it becomes that they are incapable of refuting the rational, logical, and evidence-based claims of those who rightfully criticize Israeli apartheid. "Charles" also elevates his shrill alarmism to a level of extreme paranoia -- with references to the KKK, neo-Nazis, CSIS, etc. Seriously?!?! It's reached a point where it's comedic; please, keep posting. It's good for a laugh, "Charles."
Rick, London Ontario
04/16/10 1:44 AM EST
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Rick is likely just a Klansman
Rick? falsehoods? Straight? Zionist? wow really sounds like the Klansman. Rick you have stated several times like Jews interfering or Jewish Groups interfering?? The KKK does says the same and they think they are not a hate group so do Neo Nazis and Rick look it up please you sound like a police informant or CSIS and Rick this very well documented and want info go to the Archives of Ontario are a good place to start and here a book on that subject it called Spying 101: the RCMP's secret activities at Canadian universities, 1917-1997 or will you cite the QuAIA FAQ again?
Charles, Halifax Nova Scotia
04/16/10 2:34 AM EST
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Zionist interference is well documented
The fast-growing US-based organization, Jewish Voice for Peace (http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/), runs an excellent blog that chronicles Zionist interference and silencing efforts; see: http://www.muzzlewatch.com/ -- So, there's plenty of evidence for you, all provided by a reputable Jewish organization that is calling for international sanctions against Israel for its human rights abuses and illegal occupation. And if you want to talk about "Nazis", then you might want to consider the opinions of these people: Dr. Hajo Meyer, a Holocaust survivor (http://tinyurl.com/yecolvq) and Dr. Richard Falk, a UN expert (http://tinyurl.com/yyotg7y). There are many, many others who share their opinions.
Rick, London Ontario
04/16/10 3:36 AM EST
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Rick is likely just a Klansman
Zionist interference is well documented really? like the BBC headline: UN expert stands by Nazi comments hmmmm kind of sounds like a Klansman or even anti Semitic and comparing Israel to Nazi Germany is the part of the working definition of that word the EU, Canada, and the US http://www.european-forum-on-antisemitism.org/working-definition-of-antisemitism/english/
Charles, Halifax Nova Scotia
04/16/10 3:48 AM EST
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@ Rick
yes rick like calling me a -- another straight Zionist-- guess what I'm Gay I can be Gay and not have the same viewpoints as you just a FYI!!!!
Charles, Halifax Nova Scotia
04/16/10 5:35 AM EST
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ignorance of reality
Charles just because you say something doesn't make it true, what evidence do you have that QuAIA is a hate group or uses hate speech? Do you even know what constitutes hate speech under the law? I've never read any sign of their's or seen anything on their web site that would even come close to meeting the legal definition of hate speech. Where do they advocate violence against Israelis? (there are Jewish members, saying they're anti-Jewish is too much of a stretch) where are they advocating genocide? Your constant comparison of them to the KKK only shows that you either know nothing about the KKK or actual hate groups or you know something about propaganda and realize that some people will believe a lie if told often enough. Who has QuAIA lynched? What violence have they done? Please point out exactly what they've said that would violate our hate speech laws, or come close to violating them? Also I would love to know what exactly in that letter you consider threatening, you made the accusation that they were threatening TD so obviously you saw something there I can't see, so please enlighten me. Comparing QuAIA to actual hate groups just goes to show how little you know about hate groups, they are out there and I would encourage you to go have a look at some of their sites, here's a link to the Southern Poverty Law Center, they track real hate groups and have some info about them you might find enlightening http://www.splcenter.org/ Talk about personal insults! You're flinging around some of the nastiest insults calling people neo-nazis and klansmen, all I did was question your education. Just because there's some slight similarity between two things does not make them the same or equal in any way. Do you really think you're doing your cause any good by making up things about QuAIA and calling them and their defenders names? Try sticking to facts and logic and drop the name calling, lies and exaggerations, they just make people doubt everything you have to say.
Rich, Toronto Ontario
04/16/10 5:58 PM EST
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@ Rich
Interesting maybe it like blaming Jews, Zionist interfering explain that for example and could explain why TD or the City of Toronto doesn't want anything to with QuAIA and it so close even the KKK or Neo Nazis think they are think they are not a hate group either and most people these kind of stuff never can see their hate Rich and a lot of the QuAIA crap does sound like it comes out of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion such as Zionist interfering for example
Charles, Halifax Nova Scotia
04/16/10 8:55 PM EST
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Celebration!
"Many contingents in the Pride parade celebrate activities that are not directly related -- or that are not at all related -- to "LGBT issues." Singing, dancing, the outdoors, religious denominations, corporate enterprises..." From, Israeli apartheid is an LGBT issue, Rick, London Ontario, 04/14/10 3:34 AM EST. What they are doing is, as you said, celebrating. How are they celebrating? As you noticed, they are dancing and singing since these are ways in which people celebrate. What are they celebrating? The fact that certain "religious denominations, corporate enterprises, etc." in the Toronto and surrounding areas accept the queer community. The fact that these same "religious denominations, corporate enterprises, etc." Toronto and surrounding areas are not afraid to show their acceptance and support of the queer community to the world. What was QuAIA celebrating during last year's Pride? You got me on this one. It is important that we are able to continue to show the world that inclusion of the queer community in all aspects of government and society is a basic right of all queers and that it does not harm or impact on the "mainstream." I am not discounting queer issues in other countries where people are fighting for their lives. I am not discounting that these issues are extremely important and that people need to make a stand to help fight the injustice. However, Pride Toronto is a celebration. If all political groups such as the QuAIA join the Dyke March and Pride Parade then where is the celebration of queer rights? I realise that activist groups have a right to be heard, but how happy would they be if some queers joined in on one of their protests and were celebrating their city's acceptance of queer rights? There is a time and a place and the Toronto March and Parade are neither for such groups as the QuAIA.
Shawna, Whitby Ont.
04/17/10 10:11 AM EST
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Activism IS a Celebration
Let's remember: Pride was born a protest. The Pride parade was, originally, a MARCH -- born of anger, blood, sweat, and tears. The act of reclaiming the streets was the response to repression and violence. And reclaiming the streets IS a celebration. Notice: Activists and protesters are usually smiling! It is liberating and uplifting to take a stand against oppression. Queers Against Israeli Apartheid, therefore, celebrates: QuAIA celebrates the right to freedom of expression, the right to protest, the right to raise awareness, the right to educate, and the right to be heard. There's no better celebration than taking a stand against injustice. Fighting oppression and speaking out: That's the real party!
Rick, London Ontario
04/17/10 4:55 PM EST
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@ Rick
A lot has changed over the last 30 years in Canada and guess what Rick we won we have marriage even under a Conservative Government.The QuAIA is not a gay rights group if you want to protest Israel go to Gaza or West Bank. Gays in Israel do enjoy equal rights since 1963 and Palestinian Gays because they are forced into Israel because hated by their own society and that's not Israel problem and oddly Israel does not mind helping them. It a 1936 British Mandate Law that the Palestinians still enforce under Hamas and under the Palestinian National Authority all mix with Islamic Law that are causing the suffering of Palestinians gays Rick not Israel. If you want to blame Jews or Jewish Groups for interfering which Rick you have done so many times and that proves that you have nothing to do with Pride or Gay rights but more like your personal Antisemitism(most what you have said does go into the working definition that is used by Canada, US, and the EU.) theirs always the Klan or Neo Nazi Rally's that the QuAIA can join and even they calm to have Jewish friends which we all say and that card is so so so so so old. Also the Klan and Neo Nazis' who are also anti Israel ans Zionist used the card such as activists or Fighting oppression, freedom of expression , and Rick the QuAIA is not what pride or even the real party. A group of Queer loons who support Islamic Extremism and who would not mind killing us for who we are has nothing to do with Pride Rick or the meaning
Charles, Halifax Nova Scotia
04/17/10 5:35 PM EST
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Two questions
(1) Do you believe Palestinian LGBT people exist? (2) Do you acknowledge Israel's repeated violations of international law -- violations that harm Palestinian people? If you answer "yes" to both questions, then you can only agree with the human rights campaigning efforts of Queers Against Israeli Apartheid. And note: "Yes" is the only possible answer to both questions.
Rick, London Ontario
04/18/10 7:09 PM EST
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@ Rick the Klansman
Rick I answer no How does a Middle Eastern War have anything to do with LGBT rights? and Rick I do believe the United States still leaves Gay Rights up to the voters and does repeated violations of international law(example: Iraq or Latin America) too and not a problem? and Rick tell it to these Gay Palestinians (http://reelaffirmations.bside.com/2009/films/cityofborders_reelaffirmations2009;jsessionid=E32C6126DB9E68832C89A3579ACD9287) or Rick there is always the 1936 British Mandate Law and Islamic Law that bans anyone from being gay all to together and is still enforce by the Palestinian National Authority and Hamas and could explain why Palestinians Gays are forced into Israel and could explain this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/3211772.stm) which says they are persecuted do to religious matters or it could explain this(http://www.advocate.com/article.aspx?id=43471) or this (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article575744.ece) here's a question since the QuAIA can not give any evidence that they are a Gay Rights Group or any evidence that does not come from their website which seems to be more like Propaganda then fact like no citation on their FAQ page for example. I ask this then How does the QuAIA have anything to do with Gay Rights? or seem to think that the only country in the middle east with LGBT rights and anti discrimination laws is even a threat to Gay Rights or Rick tell us again how much you love Jews for example? which you have blamed for almost everything like the Klan does or Rick why does the QuAIA go to Gaza or the West Bank? and Rick do you no even why Apartheid Started in South Africa to begin with? you have never answered that question and by not even answering that I bet you even know how it got started do you? hit they modeled it off Canada's Native Reservation system well at least a part of it. Could someone in the Queers Appeasing Islamic Aggression answer this?
Charles, Halifax Nova Scotia
04/18/10 8:15 PM EST
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Logical fallacies are Charles' specialty
For elaboration, see: http://www.theskepticsguide.org/resources/logicalfallacies.aspx
Rick, London Ontario
04/19/10 4:47 AM EST
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Rick doesn't real like the evidence
Rick you just don't like the real evidence or opposition and most is true since most of the evidence proves your wrong because yours come from only come that crap FAQ with No Citation.s Rick comments does sound more like the KKK Rick even if you are blinded by that and most do hate can't realize it either
Charles, Halifax Nova Scotia
04/19/10 6:06 AM EST
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Misleading Facebook Campaign
Hello all- I received an invitation to join a misleading Facebook campaign today regarding this subject. Rather than their pre-filled email, this is what I sent. Please feel free to distribute. Dear Mr. Mullin, I received today an invitation to join a misleading Facebook campaign, and I am writing to you to say that I understand TD Bank's awkward position. First of all, please let me thank TD Bank for your support for our community. Beyond the financial element, it is heartening for gays and lesbians that such an important stakeholder in Canadian society is PROUD (let's not forget that it's about pride) to walk arm-in-arm with us. The problems this year are due to a tiny group of idiots who want to hijack pride and use it to raise the profile of their non-queer cause, and they do this by parading around with swastikas. I can fully appreciate TD Banks hesitation and I think if the Queer community should be emailing anyone, it should be these idiots themselves, telling them to get their own parade. As I initially said, it means a lot to our community to receive the financial, and more importantly, the moral support, of mainstream Canadian society. It has been a key part of our political struggle for equality over the past 50 years. I sincerely hope , whatever the outcome of the current situation will be, that TD Bank will be able to continue with their much valued and recognized involvement. Best regards, William
William, Montreal Qc
04/19/10 11:11 AM EST
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SHAME! Very misleading note to TD William
William's note to TD (above) is incendiary and very misleading--he says QuAIA are "idiots" who "parade around with swastikas." This is totally untrue and libelous. I don't believe swastikas have ever been in a pride parade, let alone used by this groups commenting on Israeli policies in occupied Palestine, not resseurecting or glamorizing heinous Nazi anti-semitic ideology or their symbols.
james Dubro, toronto ontario
04/19/10 1:16 PM EST
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where's the evidence Charles?
Charles you still haven't responded to my request that you point out what was threatening about that letter? and what has QuAIA ever said that is hate speech? or what have they done that would make them a hate group? I do think their website is a fair representation of their ideas and beliefs, you may disagree on some of the historical/social events they mention but it is a fair representation of themselves, if you think they're beinbg misleading about themsleves on their website then what evidence do you have for that?
Rich, Toronto Ontario
04/19/10 1:39 PM EST
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@ Rich
Rich it threating because of what you said to TD. It was saying agree with us(QuAIA) or hit the road and and Rich what about the books, Palestinians Law or even reports on this from other media on this matter I have giving many links that are rather balance and even done by people who study LGBT rights? or others in the media who seem to have real information in this subject such as:(http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article575744.ece) (http://www.advocate.com/article.aspx?id=43471) (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/3211772.stm) (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/3211772.stm) (http://books.google.com/books?id=zsmkP46V_AUC&pg=PA160&dq=Gay+Rights+in+Israel&hl=en&ei=CXzFS7LXHoHGlQfF7ZiDDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CEsQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=Gay%20Rights%20in%20Israel&f=false) (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2400237.stm) (http://www.gaytlvguide.com/start-here/gay-rights-in-israel) (http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/love-sex/taboo-tolerance/the-five-most-improved-places-) are just a few or and the QuAIA website has no Citations either and makes it more like propaganda then fact and Rich how did Apartheid Start in South Africa then? you never answered that one either . Rich no evidence?? Please you have no evidence either which makes the QuAIA sound more like the Klan then a gay rights group.
Charles, Halifax Nova Scotia
04/19/10 2:28 PM EST
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links have nothing to do with QuAIA
Charles those links you provided have nothing to do with QuAIA at all, I was asking for evidence QuAIA is a hate group and/or evidence that they've used hate speech. You haven't provided that just more stories about what's going on in Israel and the Middle East in general. I don't care about what's happening over there, I care about what's happening in Toronto with those trying to put pressure on Pride, through its sponsors, to ban QuAIA. The issue at hand is QuAIA and their right to march in the Pride parade, either admit there is no evidence that QuAIA is a hate group or has used hate speech or shut up. At the very least stop trying to confuse the issue. You claim QuAIA is a hate group yet when asked for evidence you can only provide links talking about gay rights in Israel. How does that prove QuAIA is a hate group? I don't care who's right or wrong, I'm not a member of QuAIA, just an outraged gay citizen who's upset by such unfair attacks and the demonization of a group of queers trying to make a better world for everyone in the Middle East. It doesn't matter to me one bit if Israel is the best place in the world for LGBT folk or if Palestine is the worst possible place, it doesn't matter when discussing this issue of censorship in Toronto in 2010.
Rich, Toronto Ontario
04/20/10 2:29 PM EST
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That's a threat???
Charles, here's the link to the letter again, you might weant to reread it http://www.ricktelfer.ca/pride/ A threat needs two things, the first is a demand that someone do something, the second the consequences for not doing that something. I though I better spell that out as plainly as possible for you since you seem confused by what constitutes a threat. Asking someone to do sommething is not a threat, saying its a privlege for TD to sponsor Pride and not the other way around is not a threat. Please quote the threatening part of the letter as you see it such as "I am writing to ask that TD Bank Financial Group stop meddling in the affairs of Pride Toronto and our community." or "Sponsorship of Pride Toronto should not come with "strings attached" to depoliticize the parade. You either support our community or you don't." Firm words indeed but hardly a threat, if I can quote from the letter so can you, please do so and prove your point that TD is being threatened by anti-censorship folks. I would love to see the letters being sent by pro-censorship folks to TD, I imagine those contain many threats such as I won't do business with you any more if you sponsor Pride, or if you sponsor Pride we'll make sure everyone knows TD supports anti-semtism because they're supporting Pride with QuAIA in it, or some such thing along those lines, I haven't actually seen them in this case but its a lot easier to imagine the pro-censorship side threatening TD than the anti-censorship side since we don't want them to stop supporting Pride like the pro-censorship/Israel lobby does and TD has clearly been rattled by the feedback they've been getting even though they never were in the past when faced with opposition to funding Pride, so one can only imagine what that feedback this time around has been and from whom.
Rich, Toronto Ontario
04/20/10 2:45 PM EST
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israeli apartheid
I wanted to say that all progressive people should fight against the apartheid gov.of israel.It looks like some people are trying to blackmail Toronto Pride into not supporting the Palestinian struggle.The unions and other organizations in Toronto should support Toronto pride in this important issue.This is a fight that needs to be won.
stan squires, vancouver British Columbia
04/21/10 1:16 PM EST
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Hold your ground Pride and QaIA
I support QaIA and Pride Toronto's decision against censoring our community. If this is allowed to happen to a human rights group, what will be next? Don't fold over pressure from people who have a vested interested in silencing a dissenting opinion. Hang in there everyone... the universities did, and they are just fine.
zezi, Toronto Ontario
04/21/10 1:34 PM EST
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Why must we be quiet?
So senior Israeli military and government officials can compare the situation of Palestinians to the Warsaw ghetto, Israeli reporters can write scathing articles linking military actions to quotes from "Mein Kampf", and Israeli pilots can resign rather than conduct what they call the senseless killing of children, but some Canadian queers comparing it the situation to South Africa is horrendously anti-Semitic?
Chris, Mississauga ON
04/23/10 3:34 PM EST
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Re:Chris
A Gay Pride Parade is not a place to vent your hatred or "strong dislike" for a group or a nation. With this much negative vibe - it should behoove the organizers of the Parade to make the right judgment and keep the Parade positive - rather then allowing for this much negativity and controversy to overtake it (and therebye even possibly affect funding by sponsors). More to the point Gay Pride is not an appropriate venue for this kind of discussion.
Dave, Montreal Qc
04/25/10 2:37 PM EST
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Re: David
This isn't about dislike for a nationality or group, this is about critiquing the policy choices of a fellow democracy. Queers protested against South African Apartheid. Queers protested against the second Gulf War. These, like Queers protesting the living conditions of Palestinians, are just instances of common sense and free expression.
Chris, Mississauga ON
04/27/10 8:19 AM EST
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