New Ontario curriculum on sexuality and gender
ONTARIO NEWS / Diversity training to hit teacher college classrooms by 2013
Andrea Houston / National / Monday, December 19, 2011
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New teachers in Ontario will soon graduate from college with an improved understanding of gender and sexuality to bring to the classroom, says queer activist Davina Hader.
 
Hader is part of a group, led by Toronto Centre Liberal MPP Glen Murray, that will soon be developing training for new teachers to focus on equity and diversity. “It's incredible. It will be required for every teacher. This is pretty groundbreaking,” Hader says. 
 
Schools must be accepting and welcoming for students and staff, Hader says. “And teachers' curriculum is part of that change.”

Hader says the issue of inclusive education has been underscored this year as Ontario students have fought for gay-straight alliances (GSAs). 
 
“The problem the Liberals have been up against with regard to GSAs is the separate school board,” Hader says. “Boards have been saying ministry policies are not enforceable because Catholic schools have special rights. Well, they can't use that card anymore. This is a push for equality in education right across the board.
 
“With this we are teaching the people at the top, and they're going to have to listen. It will be mandated as part of their curriculum. They won't have a choice."
Queer activist Davina Hader is working with MPP Glen Murray on developing a new curriculum for student teachers.
(Andrea Houston)

 
Murray says new teachers will soon complete two years of training instead of one through the Ontario Institute for Studies in Education (OISE). An increased focus on equity and diversity will be built into the new curriculum as a way for new teachers to better understand the gay, lesbian, bisexual and trans community.
 
The new curriculum is linked to the Ministry of Education’s new Accepting Schools Act, Murray says. It will be written over the course of 2012 and launched in 2013. The curriculum will be mandatory for all teachers, Catholic and secular.
 
“There will be increased training in sexual orientation and gender diversity,” he says.
 
Murray says he is currently consulting teachers unions, staff in education faculties, parents, queer advocacy groups, students and the larger community.
 
“The Accepting Schools Act is very clear,” Murray says. “Not only can schools not discriminate against gay, lesbian and trans students, schools must create healthy and welcoming spaces for everyone. That will be the policy of Ontario.
 
“We want all students and teachers to feel welcome in schools, not just tolerated.”
Toronto Centre Liberal MPP Glen Murray.

 
For now, the initiative will affect only teachers. But Hader says she would like to see the training extend to board administrators and trustees as well.
 
"Queer youth are being bullied and some are killing themselves,” she says. “This is something that will go a long way to help our youth and effectively change the way the next generation looks at queer people."
 


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Reader Comments


 
Clarification
While any additional diversity training should be applauded (particularly regarding a better understanding of gender issues - will this training be able to Xtra management?) Hader makes some comments that are not entirely correct. 'The problem the Liberals have been up against with regard to GSAs is the separate school board.' This is the problem the Liberals _claim_ to be up against. This assumes the Liberals support GSAs called GSAs at Catholic schools, but there is no evidence to support this claim (particularly in light of the loophole the Liberals have provided the catholic schools). Neither the Premier or the Minister of Education has ever said they support GSAs called GSAs at Catholic schools. So I'm not sure where Hader got this impression that this was Liberal policy as it is not. And boards have not said they have special rights because that claim has never been tested so, in fact, they have never 'used that card.' Finally, the people 'at the top' are the trustees and the Bishops. It's far easier to change requirements for teachers as they are at the bottom. These changes are welcome, but teachers have never had a choice about their own curriculum (and the misleading headline implies this story relates to school curriculum). And it's disappointing to see Murray is still playing the same word games he's been playing since the Pride announcement (made on behalf of the Premier, as McGuinty, like Ford, couldn't make it for any part of the ten day festival - how's that for supporting bullied LGBT youth?). 'The Accepting Schools Act is very clear.' No it isn't. Is it even possible for Glen to not play both sides?
Correction, Toronto Ontario
12/20/11 10:45 AM EST
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DISGUSTING
Enough said.
OMG, Everywhere Ontario
12/20/11 12:01 PM EST
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Interesting
I'm thinking there are going to be a lot more parents looking at the "home school" option if this type of activism continues. Kids go to learn their A'B'C's and the three R's. Stop politicizing the classroom, and leave this garbage out of the curriculum. Parents alone should be responsible for teaching children morals. When kids are older, then they can make up their own minds. This type of activist behaviour contributes to the kind of discrimination you claim to be trying to prevent. People are sick of having our kids used for your political agenda.
JamesHalifax, Trenton Ontario
12/20/11 1:45 PM EST
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Who are all these groups?
'Murray says he is currently consulting teachers unions, staff in education faculties, parents, queer advocacy groups, students and the larger community.' So where are they? Who else is in this mysterious group? Xtra could only find one person to speak about this massive new development? Someone who can't actually cite any specific curriculum details? What is so 'groundbreaking' about empty promises?
Hmm, Toronto Ontario
12/20/11 3:46 PM EST
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will make a big difference
I'm very glad to hear about this change and that Davina Hader is involved in designing the new curriculum for those studying to be teachers in Ontario. I have no doubt it will make a big difference. Teachers set much of the tone and culture of a classroom, making them all more aware of the realities of queer youth, including, I assume, instruction for recognizing bullying and other problems such as mental/emotional distress in their students will go a long way in supporting queer students who are being bullied or otherwise having a hard time coping with reactions to their sexual orientation and/or gender identity. Too often teachers let the bullying continue or ignore their students who are in distress for whatever reason because they simply cannot recognize the signs. As well hopefully it will reduce the bullying of queer students by teachers themselves. Being bullied by a teacher can be extra harmful for a student since it makes it that much harder for them to deal with when its a person with power over them who is the bully. This is an important first step before getting a similar sort of curriculum into our schools for all of our students and not just student teachers. After all its pretty hard to get that sort of curriculum off the ground if the teachers aren't educated in it first. This is all very good news!
Rich, Toronto Ontario
12/20/11 6:20 PM EST
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in the summer of 2008...
...a group of educators was hired by Ontario's Ministry of Education to write three progressive high school courses, set to be included in the next revision of the Social Sciences & Humanities curriculum document. It is a shame that those courses - one which was a Gender Studies course - have never been officially published. They are sitting on a shelf gathering dust at the Ministry. Although the official explanation for the delay is that the courses "are still under review by stakeholders", I have no doubt that political red tape has tied them up. I support the idea of diversity training for teachers, but that's only half the battle. I urge the Ministry to get those courses off the shelves and into the classrooms.
everydayathena, Ottawa ON
12/20/11 8:53 PM EST
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so glad I lived to see this day
Awesome. So thanks to guys like Hader, the schools can teach the children that gender is pretty much a choice. Guys don't want to be bullied? Don't dress up like girls. Bullying is unacceptable, but if your son goes to school dressed like britney spears, yeah. He's gonna get jumped on and he has nobody to blame but himself. Mr Hader, I am sorry for whatever events led you to whatever it is you've become. But you are not a woman. you will never be a woman and you needed serious help. It's confusion like that which will lead to suicidal thoughts, and that gets augmented by bullying and leads to tragedy. What you are doing now is encouraging kids to act out whatever gender they want and it's going to get people killed. Please stop.
Barry, Hamilton Ontario
12/21/11 1:05 AM EST
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wtfover
You are beyond sick, these are children, you are not putting forth a sociological dialogue, you are enforcing your own sad deviant and perverted mind set on others. This shall not be tolerated. If you thought the mythical bigots of the 50s-60s hated you, well you ain't seen nothing yet. I work with tweens & teens and there are 2 things I see for sure 1} they love hockey and Don Cherry, 2} sexual deviance is anathema, ie all this lgbttaflskjfsf, is bs to them, good luck ahs.
leonard robertson, lacombe alberta
12/21/11 5:37 AM EST
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where'd they all come from?
Reading the comments here I'm wondering exactly what rock these religious right bigots crawled out of to find this particle article so they could comment on it. The usual sources don't seem to have any articles on it. Maybe religious right wing bigots have just taken up reading Xtra on a regular basis now. Though it still seems likely to me they're commenting here under someone's orders or suggestion. Just more examples of why this change in curriculum is so badly needed.
Rich, Toronto Ontario
12/21/11 7:53 AM EST
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correction
I meant particular article not particle article as I wrote above.
Rich, Toronto Ontario
12/21/11 7:55 AM EST
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Few points
First, let me say I have known a few dudes who identified themselves as women; even dressed in women's clothing. But clearly, they were men, as is evidenced by the photo of Davina above. That being said, both of these individuals were very kind, and of a generous spirit, and I liked them. However (there is always a however) no amount of dialogue will convince me that they were just men trapped in a woman's body. They were men who were confused about what they were/are. It doesn't matter how you choose to dress, nor does it matter what type of surgery you have, what hormones you are taking, or how you feel inside. Nature and biology have determined your sex, it is NOT a choice, regardless of how you feel about it. If you have the XX Chromosome, you are a dude. You could be a gay dude, or straight...but still a dude. If you have XY, you are a female, and the same rules apply. In the rare cases of XXY, or other variations, those folks are the truly transgender folks, but that is a mutation found in nature. I know it's all "sciency" and stuff, but that is the reality. Davina....may feel like HE is a woman, but his Chromosomes give him away. He's a biological male, and no amount of hormone injections, or surgery will change that. As I stated at the beginning, whatever DAVINA's psychological issues about his sex, I'm sure he's a great person, but he's still a guy in a dress. Have a program to stop bulling in schools, that's fine; but don't start teaching kids that one's sex is a decision they have to make. Birth made that decision for them. The only way to stop a bully is to stand up to him. A quick punch in the mouth is the best way to stop a bully. True, he may beat you silly afterwards, but you will see a noticeable decline in his willingness to bother you again in the future. If however, you are a male kid in a dress and wearing makeup, you will need to be willing to defend yourself.
JamesHalifax, Trenton ONT
12/21/11 8:38 AM EST
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Agreed with above.
^ This. In every single way. He really is a nice guy. We have some mutual Transgendered friends and have met on a few occasions. And to the comment about the religious bigotry.. I haven't seen a single comment mention any religious aspect of this situation, probably because that doesn't belong in schools either anymore. Is religious ferver the only valid reason for not supporting this sort of thing? I just happen to disagree with it. I discussed this today with a trans friend and while we disagree on these issues, we still respect each others views. Thats how I can have viewpoints like this and still maintain friendships with people who are different than me. And was that last part really suggesting that people are being coerced and/or ordered into posting negative comments?.. really? by who? Conspiracy theorize much?
Barry, Hamilton Ontario
12/21/11 2:02 PM EST
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PLEASE!!!!!
Teach our kids MATH not how to use DILDOS. Seriously.
Stop, All Over Ontario
12/21/11 4:34 PM EST
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Comments Validate the Need for Change!
To the few comments that seem to take pleasure in perpetuating the stereotypical personas that exude ignorance and bigotry. Your perception of how women should look is seriously misguided, many erroneous assumptions have been made; medically and otherwise and calling a queer woman a man validates the very reason our Ontario education system needs systemic change with an agenda that includes gender and sexual diversity equity.
Davina Hader, Toronto Ontario
12/21/11 7:04 PM EST
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social reactions based on lies
@JamesHalifax -you got the chromosomes wrong. XX is Female and XY is male. But you intuitively guessed that a so called “Sex Change” does not change the primary sex of the person which is determined by their DNA in every cell of their body. Some poor people have been erroneously convinced that a superficial cosmetic surgery of their genitals can change their sex. That is biologically erroneous and medically impossible at this point in technological abilities. But, now they are trying to convince the whole world that they are actually female even though they have no uterus or ovaries nor XX chromosomes. They even want to write Trans falsities into laws of all ministries and educational curricula. The fake visuals of hair, makeup and female clothing do not match the underlying structure. It is a momentary instinctual shock for most people. (“Bizzarro Lois” from Superman comics comes to mind.) People need to do an intellectual adjustment to be able to accept what they are looking at. That's what causes the reactions. Whoever convinces these people that they are actually having a “sex change” should be tarred and feathered. It is so unfair to them to hegemonically influence them to suffer surgeries and social reactions based on lies. Although, in general, respect for everyone as they think they want to be, and anti-bullying, are noble pursuits to instil into any curriculum.
Joe, TO ON
12/21/11 8:31 PM EST
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Editing error
Sorry, Jo. Of course you are correct about the XX and XY. I did some editing before I posted the comment and failed to switch the two around. Davina, with regards to your comments; You call yourself a queer woman. Given the unusual circumstances of your identity, does this mean you were a man who became a woman, and now only dates women? Meaning you are a lesbian? Or are you a former man, who became a woman and now only dates men? Meaning you are a formerly gay man? That alone should provide cause for concern with regards to how this will be perceived by a child. If you only date men, why couldn't you just accept that you were a gay man, and accept that for what it is? There is nothing wrong with being gay, but you need to accept it. May I hazard a guess that perhaps you were raised with the impression that being a gay man was somehow immoral and the only way you could get around that fact, is to start believing you are actually a woman...only trapped in a man's body? As I hinted at in my above comment, I think "transgendered" folks don't have an issue with their bodies, they have an issue of psychology. As for how you look, Davina, I never wrote that you were ugly or somehow displeasing, I simply pointed out the obvious. When I see your photo, I do not see a woman. I see a man with long hair and makeup. Sorry...I call it as I see it. I have friends who are gay, and I've known a few dudes who thought they were women. All great folks, very kind and my wife and I enjoyed their company. But I never once considered the transgender fellas as women. I considered them as my slightly confused friends, who's personal choices did not affect our friendship. I have straight friends with some strange habits and beliefs, but they've never tried to force them upon me. The issue for this thread however, is our kids. Frankly, I don't want my kids to "Learn" from their teacher, that one can choose their sex. Tha
JamesHalifax, Trenton ON
12/22/11 8:32 AM EST
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One more thing
Davina, you stated: "With this we are teaching the people at the top, and they're going to have to listen. It will be mandated as part of their curriculum. They won't have a choice." And can you not see why this is an issue for many people? On one hand, you are demanding that people respect your rights, while in the same breath justifying the elimination of theirs. The Catholic Church has the right to follow their teachings whether you agree with them or not. Simply because they receive public funding is not the issue. If a transgendered or gay kid doesn't like the rules of the club...they don't have to join. The Catholic School Board, having their set of rules, should also have the right to tell those who do join, that "this is what we believe in" For you to force your views on them is just as wrong as the Church trying to force their views on anyone else. For the record, I'm not religious, so that isn't a factor for me. If parents want to teach their children Catholic ideology, that is their right as a parent. Parent's of faith should not have to put up with indoctrination in the classroom. And it is indoctrination, regardless of how you try to spin it. Canadians are a very tolerant lot, but if you start playing identity politics with young children, I can foresee them becoming decidedly less so. And that doesn't favour your cause in the least.
JamesHalifax, Trenton ONT
12/22/11 9:29 AM EST
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Biology Experts
Nice to see the self appointed experts in sexual anatomy explaining why transgender people are just confused. Your ignorance is showing, especially when you try to justify your positions with high-school level understandings of genetics and sex chromosomes. I'm afraid that my own "Sciency" response is going to use bigger words JamesHalifax, but like you said, that is the reality. To put it simply, there is a lot more to biological sex than what chromosomes one has, to say nothing about the complexity of gender. Brain studies of MtF and FtM transsexuals have been instructive in this respect. As one of many examples, when looking at the bed nucleus of the stria terminalis (BSTc), which has twice as many neurons in men as in women, studies find that trans women have a BSTc neuron count equal to that of other women, and trans men to that of other men, and that this is unaffected by hormone therapy. In other words, elements of their brain structure are already those of the sex they identify as, despite their XX or XY chromosomes. I could go on, but it suffices to say that your trans friends aren't confused or incorrect about their gender, you are. Specifically, you are ignorant about the complexity of human sexual biology and believe it to be reducible to XX and XY chromosomes. This is unsurprising, it's what you were taught in school, and most schools today still do not educate young adults of any age about gender and sex diversity. I find it stunning, however, that you would invoke science while insisting that the solution to the complexities of reality is to keep teaching an incorrect and overly simplified model of sex. Or should we stop improving the science and health curriculum when it means parents are going to have to reevaluate their own prejudices?
Richard L, Halifax NS
12/22/11 2:55 PM EST
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re: where'd they all come from?
I guess I was just hopeful that it was the religious right nutcases posting such negative and nasty comments here. After all none of the queers I know or am friends with are bigots in any way shape or form. I guess its just because I don't choose to have any sort of a bigot for a friend or acquaintance. In the recent issue of Danny Glenwright using Lexi's birth name I had thought some of the trans posters were over stating the problems they've had with other queers who are cis, obviously I see now they were not overstating anything at all. In my own defence I don't think its at all uncommon to assume that because everyone, or at least every queer, you have anything to do with are not bigots in any way it doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of queers who are anti-trans bigots, and most likely bigots in general, themselves. This comment thread has been a real eye opener for me, sadly. Though I am glad to see not everyone posting here is an anti-trans bigot and that people like Richard L from Halifax are more than capable of highlighting the BS in the claims from anti-trans bigots. I have had my differences with and don't always agree with certain people who happen to be trans, but I cannot fathom how some people can claim trans people are not the sex/gender they know themselves to be. How is it that such people can seriously claim to know more about being trans than trans people themselves? Its no different than the religious right wing who claim to know more about being LGB than LGB people themselves.
Rich, Toronto Ontario
12/22/11 6:00 PM EST
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Help for the Afflicted!
To JamesHalifax and others who have similar postings on this comment blog; I have included several links to help with your serious disorders, please read them carefully as your conditions seem to be very acute! http://counsellingresource.com/ask-the-psychologist/2009/07/23/i-think-im-addicted-to-transsexual-porn/ http://www.medialit.org/reading-room/beautyand-beast-advertising http://sexualauthenticity.blogspot.com/2011/11/shame-and-guilt-and-guilt-and-shame-and.html I am proudly Queer for my bisexuality, I’m sorry if that makes you think I’m a man!
Davina Hader, Toronto ON
12/22/11 9:40 PM EST
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This is wrong
Where does this gay activist get off telling parents who have their children's best interest at heart that they can not object? This is totally wrong to impose your sexual attitudes on young children like this. Who do you thing you are? Some Gay Stalin?
Christopher Jones, Edmonton AB=Alberta
12/23/11 1:44 AM EST
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re: This is wrong
Christopher Jones try actually reading the article next time before posting. This curriculum being developed is for student teachers at universities, they are adults not children. Yes they are usually young people, though not all, but it would be pretty pathetic if the parents of these young adults in university were pulling their adult children from certain classes because they don't want them to learn the truth about queers, sexual orientation and gender diversity.
Rich, Toronto Ontario
12/23/11 3:46 AM EST
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Touched a nerve I see...
Davina, you are as confused in your comments as you are in your sexuality. You initially described yourself as a Transgender person. Then you picked Queer Woman, and now you say you are bisexual. Clearly, as I pointed out in one of my earlier posts, you are very confused. For God's sake...pick a colour already. If you still aren't sure of your sexuality as an adult, how can you be considered an expert on helping young kids determine theirs? I thank you for the links on tranny porn, but you must please forgive me if I choose not to visit the site. Seeing you with clothes is offputting enough. As for Richard L in Halifax; I've seen similar studies by groups with regards to violence by blacks showing that their brain structure and chemistry means they cannot control their most base impulses. I've seen studies showing that Aboriginal people are very susceptible to the effects of alcohol. I've seen studies showing that Global warming is REAL and that the argument was over. What do all of these studies have in common with yours? Simple, all of them have been discredited, usually because the orignator of the studies had an ulterior motive, and were biased. That's why I give them no weight in this argument. I did see a program once that showed some women had brains very simlar to men, and vice versa, but the results did not necessarily indicate whether someone was gay or not. Davina, and folks like him are in a different category. A man who thinks he's a women. Puts on a dress and makeup and considers it a done deal, and then sleeps with women. And men. Like I wrote earlier, the dude's confused, but he's still a dude. It's not just the adams apple that gives him away. Issues like this are for parents discuss with their kids. We don't want confused ideology messing them up. Davina, saw you on Michael Coren last night. Jig is up. Hopefully, McGinty gets the boot before this idiocy continues.
JamesHalifax, Trenton ONT
12/23/11 8:07 AM EST
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Discredited
JamesHalifax, I'd like to see your sources which discredit the studies I mentioned on the BSTc. This is an honest request. If you need the references, studies on the BSTc in transsexuals begin with Zhou et all (1995), and were subsequently verified by additional research which attempted to correct for weaknesses in the 1995 study. See Kruijver et al (2000), Chung, WC; De Vries, GJ; Swaab, DF (2002), Swaab (2004), Gooren, L (2006), and Garcia-Falgueras, A.; Swaab, D. F. (2008). I can provide specific journals for each of these sources if you need additional assistance in locating them. Also, Davina has been perfectly upfront about her gender and sexuality, let me unpack this for you. (Davina, please correct me if I'm in error). By transgender, Davina refers to the fact that her birth assigned gender (based on the traits you gave us, chromosomes and doctors looking at her body) does not match her gender identity, the way she experiences sex/gender, an identity caused by factors which you deny the existence of. This has no bearing on her sexual orientation, just like your being a man has no bearing on whether or not you're straight, gay or bi. When she says she's bisexual, I imaging she's telling us she's attracted to people regardless of their gender. So to clear up your confusion, a trans woman, attracted to both men and women. No contradiction here. As for Queer, that's a term many on the LGBT spectrum use and means different things to different people, but in no way contradicts her identity as trans or bisexual. Also, thank you for admitting that you are disturbed by trans people, even wearing clothing. It makes the rest of your comments far easier to understand, though it leaves me with little hope of a reasonable scientific debate. Finally, you did indeed touch a nerve, but you should have been ready for negative feedback. After all, you did say the best way to deal with a bully was to stand up to him.
Richard L, Halifax NS
12/23/11 9:30 AM EST
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Studies
Sorry, Richard, I don't actually keep a filing cabinet with all of the resources I've seen over the years. I'm sure you could find something on Google, but I'm not going to do it for you. As for Davina, he still hasn't seemed to come to grips with what he is, so he decided to be everything, to everyone. Fine, his life, let him do what he wants. Parents are rightfully concerned that this activist ideology will find a place in the classroom and they aren't comfortable with the possible "teaching" that may be the result of this. Davina has said it himself, "Parents will have no choice" and that alone is the red flag. Parents should ALWAYS be the final word on what their children are taught in school. As I stated in an earlier post, Davina DEMANDS that his rights and ideology are accepted, but refuses to recognize the rights of others'. As for the bullying comment you made, you will note that my comments about Davina's appearance came after he made disparaging comments about my views, thereby trying to force his views upon me. Two to tango...so to speak. Lastly, Davina's idea of "education" to clear up my problem with this agenda was to direct me to a trans-porn site. I'm just hoping that this type of "learning" won't make it to the classroom. I want to be sure that viewing gay-trans porn isn't the next version of the Ontario curriculum. Clearly, he thinks it's a good idea. If you're looking for someone who truly embraces the tactics of a bully, kindly re-read Davina's comments above. He wants to FORCE his will upon others'. That is what a true bully does. And for the record, simply re-naming something does not make it factual. Calling an orange an apple, does not change an orange into an apple, no matter how you cut it up. The same applies to people. Calling a man a woman, does not make a man a woman; no matter how you cut it up, or
JamesHalifax, Trenton ONT
12/23/11 10:12 AM EST
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Differences aside
Later folks. Been interesting. Differences of views aside, I wish everyone here a Merry Christmas, Happy Chanakha (sp?) etc...etc...
JamesHalifax, Trenton ONT
12/23/11 11:40 AM EST
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Rich: eye-opening, eh?
It's pretty much open season on trans people in any LGBT comments section. Arrogant know-it-alls like JamesHalifax are hypocrites of the highest order, demanding acceptance for themselves while at the same time virtually cutting and pasting anti-trans articles from the Traditional Values Coalition, right down to the "it's for your own good" part. Just subtract out the God bits and they're good to go. And it's just as intellectually dishonest, because the real purpose of their post is to plant this deceptive narrative of who trans people are into the minds of people with naive understandings of biology and psychology (ie, most people). Or philosophy, for that matter (what is "real"). The idea is to neuter the threat that the concept of transsexuality represents to a vested interest, or to an ideology, or to their own repressed, uncomfortable thoughts. Or they could just be sadistic bullies who derive considerable pleasure from increasing the suffering of others. It must be considerable, considering the amount of effort they put into it. Must be a big rush saying "you're not who you say you are, you're who *I* say you are." Sexuality and gender are part of BIOLOGY and absolutely belong in the classroom along with the rest of the field. "Morality" does not and that includes YOURS. Just so you know, I'm XXY and I am totally, completely undetectable.
Justice, Port Plutonium Prince Rupert Land
12/23/11 3:34 PM EST
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James Halifax is a Bully
Thank you James Halifax for showing us what a public bully can muster to attack a genuinely good natured person like Davina Hader. You are a cool one hiding behind the façade of an electronic keyboard. For any of your claims to carry any weight you will need first to come out in public to speak. Otherwise we will consider you what you are; a bullying coward spiting out fear and hate. At this time of year you might want to visit a church to learn about the birth of Christ and ask yourself 'What would Jesus say?' Enough of your fear-mongering, myth-making, and story-telling. Put that in your Christmas pipe and smoke it!
Susan Gapka, Toronto Ontario
12/23/11 9:17 PM EST
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Re: Differences aside
Perhaps my bullying comment seemed out of line to you, but I suppose its a difference of perspective. By bullying, I refer not only to your attacks against Davina's appearance, but also to your mocking of her identity, your use of an anti-trans slur, and to your ongoing insistence on labeling her male. All of these things are insensitive at best and, indeed, bullying at worst. In any case, since you seem to want to drop it, I'll leave it there. Happy Holidays to you and yours as well. If nothing else, this thread has amply demonstrated just how deeply right-wing fear tactics have undermined the potential Ontario curriculum, and for that matter the advancement of trans individuals everywhere in society. We need more people of all genders and sexualities to challenge these stereotypes and lies wherever they rear their heads.
Richard L, Halifax NS
12/24/11 8:22 AM EST
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Who's the bully?
Clearly, one cannot express their views if they veer away from the views of the usual posters on this site. I never once told Davina that he had to change his views, while he changed his gender. I simply expressed my view as a parent that I don't want any curriculum in public school that asks young kids to question whether they are a boy or girl. Davina's a man who wants to be a woman; good for him. He should live his life as he sees fit, but he should NOT try and look for recruits in elementary school. Kids have enough to confuse them already. As for the comments about religion; sorry, not my cup of tea. I'm an atheist. And Stan Gapka, er, Susan Gapka from Toronto, please show me where I say Davina is NOT a nice person? I don't know him, so how would I know? I have no more right to say Davina isn't a nice person, than you have to say I'm a bully. Davina's own comments indicate his intolerance when he states that parents won't have a choice. As mentioned above, removing one's choice is more the action of a bully, than is expressing a difference of opinion. If Davina has a kid, fine, let him teach the little tyke whatever he wants - but stay away from my kids' school with your activist ideology. I find it a sad state of affairs when those on the left proclaim to be progressive, when in fact the most intolerant haters I've found in Canada are almost exclusively on the LEFT of the political spectrum. Whether it's anti-semites wanting a freedom flotilla to Gaza, or marxist layabouts marching in the pride parade as queers against Israeli apartheid. The LEFT has almost exclusive jurisdiction on intolerance in Canada. Views expressed that are not of the leftist variety, invariably bring out that reality; as shown here. I'll conclude by saying I don't think anyone should be discriminated against because of who they are, no more than I think people should be silenced or castigated for having a different opinion. Cheers.
JamesHalifax, Trenton ONT
01/04/12 10:41 AM EST
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Running Wild with Misconceptions!
Re: JamesHalifax, I'm sorry but you are confusing ignorance, absence of comprehension and knowledge as an opinion or view and you seem to do this so easily without any factual thinking. I have never stated that parents won't have a choice, those are your misguided thoughts. I referred to the Separate board having to adopt these new policies when I said people at the top won't have a choice, currently their bishops are controlling these policies for them! Teachers across both boards have stated they welcome increased knowledge in terms of diversity and the LGBT community. There is no secret agenda to recruit or convert children! Seriously you have been watching too many espionage movies! Increased knowledge and understanding in schools is a good thing and does not corrupt one's mind! Finally, without any reason or any knowledge of who I am, medically or otherwise you continue to refer to me as a gender I have never been! Aside for my bisexuality, there is not a doctor on this planet who would not see or treat me any other way; physically, genetically or mentally than a woman. I'm sorry to burst your bubble but you're running wild with misconceptions!
Davina Hader, Toronto Ontario
01/10/12 12:08 AM EST
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eye-opening indeed
You're right Justice, this thread has been eye opening indeed. But I'll take some comfort in the fact that the worst of anti-trans bigots posting here, JamesHalifax, is far right and does not appear to be in any way queer. As well the more he writes the bigger the fool he shows himself to be. As for the rest I can only assume they've lived very small lives and have never developed empathy or critical thinking skills. Still everyone I personally know, most of whom are queer but some cis heteros too, have nothing in common at all with these types. I'm sure that has a lot to do with self selection, I won't have anything to do with assholes of any sort, life is too short, why waste it associating with assholes? Still I'd like to know where these sorts of people come from, in a larger sense though or rather what makes some people assholes and bigots, I know they learn much of it but that doesn't seem to me like it would explain all of it. There must be some other factors at play in my opinion. Regardless I also take comfort in the fact Davina will be helping develop this new curriculum for student teachers. I have no doubt she'll do an excellent job of it.
Rich, Toronto Ontario
01/10/12 2:43 AM EST
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Ahh..the civility of queers
I can see clearly that my assumptions about Davina have been correct. He doesn't brook any deviations, except his own. My views; to him, are confused and ignorant. He may note, that I feel the same way about his views so we'll call it even. As for not giving parents a choice, I was quite correct. By ordering the senior folks of school boards to provide this curriculum, the choice is effectively removed from the parents of the kids who will be subjected to this ridiculous curriculum. As for your Gender Davina, it was choosen for you by nature. The fact you refuse to recognize it is not the issue. What do your chromosomes say? XX or XY? Do you pee standing up, or has a medical procedure negated that option? Either way, your view that you are now a woman is your confused and ignorant view. Rich in Toronto. I am not an anti-queer or a trans-bigot. I have gay family members, but admittedly no trans family members. I suppose one of the gay cousins could have his penis surgically removed and change his name from Sean to Seanna, but that wouldn't really fool anyone any more than David, er, Davina's change would. You state that most of your friends are gay, but you do know a few hetero's. Hmm...maybe you should expand your horizon's somewhat as apparently you spend all of your time in gay bars, or CBC lounge areas. Given that you are gay as folk yourself, you choose an interesting epithet to label me. You called me an asshole. Frankly, given your own proclivities, one would think that from you that this would be a compliment. After all, folks in your "community" seem to spend an inordinate amount of time searching out new assholes, or fantisizing about them. Perhaps you should spend a little more time outside of the gay lifestyle bubble and see that life does not revolve around sex, or your definition of it. Maybe pick up a book, or take up art. There is more to life than assholes; look into it. (not literal of course, I'm sure y
JamesHalifax, Trenton Ontario
01/12/12 10:12 AM EST
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That being said...
Ok, now that I have responded in kind...let me be clear. 1. I support equal marriage 2. I want everyone to be happy with who they are, regardless of what you may believe. 3. I think it is up to parents to explain complicated issues such as this. 4. I don't want beaurocrats or activists explaining such things to my child. 5. Parents of faith should not be castigated or ridiculed for their beliefs. 6. Most important: Charles McVety is an idiot, and not because of his beliefs. He's an idiot because he tries to foist his beliefs on others...and he's quick to judge. Remember that last part. Cheers.
JamesHalifax, Trenton Ontario
01/13/12 12:40 PM EST
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