Levy urges Jewish leaders to press city to defund Pride Toronto
TORONTO NEWS / 'Get the e-mails going,' writes Toronto Sun columnist
Xtra Staff / National / Wednesday, April 06, 2011
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Xtra obtained today an email from Toronto Sun columnist Sue-Ann Levy addressed to several leaders in the Jewish Community encouraging them to lobby Toronto city councillors to defund Pride Toronto. Read the text below.

Read more on the Pride Toronto city funding story in On a razor's edge.

-----Original Message-----
From: Sue-Ann Levy
Sent: Tue 29/03/2011 3:21 PM
To: abenlolo@fswc.caabenlolo@fswc.ca mailto: abenlolo@fswc.ca
abenlolo@fswc.ca ; LRudner@on.cjc.caLRudner@on.cjc.ca mailto:LRudner@on.cjc.ca
LRudner@on.cjc.ca ; BFarber@on.cjc.caBFarber@on.cjc.ca mailto:BFarber@on.cjc.ca
BFarber@on.cjc.ca
Cc: martin@gladstonelaw.camartin@gladstonelaw.ca mailto:martin@gladstonelaw.ca
martin@gladstonelaw.ca
Subject: City funding of Pride

Good afternoon Gentlemen:

I had an interesting discussion this morning with Earl Provost, Director of Stakeholder Relations in Mayor Rob Ford's office. He is very concerned that unless the Toronto Jewish community gets on board and starts sending mass e-mails to ALL 44 councillors, the vote to defund Pride this year because of QuAIA's involvement will fail.

He told me that while the mayor is very supportive of keeping QuAIA and hate speech out of the parade, he is ONLY ONE VOTE on council. There's no doubt in my mind that the supporters of QuAIA -- including Xtra and QuAIA's new friend Rev. Brent Hawkes-- are working behind the scenes to ensure there's enough votes to overturn the motion.

This is the time for the Jewish community to speak loudly and clearly. If we sit on our hands with a mayor in power who supports us, we will pay the price of missing an opportunity to put an end to hate speech.
Make no mistake.

The Rev. Brent Hawkes tour of Jewish media and basically whomever will listen to him is only about one thing: Saving face, keeping bums in the seats of his church and promoting the image of himself, Rev. Hawkes, as the self-appointed leader of Toronto's gay community.

Rev. Hawkes does not speak for me. He does not speak for Martin or for any of our Jewish gay friends. I highly doubt he speaks for most of the gay community, many of whom have written to me saying that he and his panel should have banned QuAIA outright.

He speaks for a fringe group only.

Despite all of his talk about there being a process in place to ensure hate speech is not in the parade, you have to ask yourself one thing.

Will QuAIA march this year?

The answer is an unequivocal yes.

Please take Earl's concerns to heart and I urge you to get the e-mails going.

Cheers,
Sue-Ann


Sue-Ann Levy
City Hall Columnist
Toronto Sun
416-947-2393




------Original Message------
From: Mark Harris
To: Councillor Augimeri To: Councillor Bailão To: Councillor Berardinetti To: Councillor Carroll To: Councillor Cho To: Councillor Colle To: Councillor Crawford To: Councillor Crisanti To: Councillor De Baeremaeker To: Councillor Del Grande To: Councillor Dford To: Councillor Di Giorgio To: Councillor Doucette To: Councillor Filion To: Councillor Fletcher To: Councillor Fragedakis To: Councillor Grimes To: Councillor Holyday To: Councillor Kelly To: Councillor Layton To: Councillor Lee To: Councillor Lindsay Luby To: Councillor Mammoliti To: Councillor Matlow To: Councillor McConnell
To: Councillor McMahon To: Councillor Mihevc To: Councillor Milczyn To: Councillor Moeser To: Councillor Nunziata To: Councillor Palacio To: Councillor Parker
Subject: Fwd: City funding of Pride - A Blood Libel
Sent: Mar 30, 2011 3:13 PM

As I resonable, thinking proud Canadian, I fully agree with Mr. Bauskin...
how is this even an issue? Have you lost your minds?

Mark Harris


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Harry Bauskin bauskin@rogers.combauskin@rogers.com mailto:bauskin@rogers.com
bauskin@rogers.com
Date: Wed, Mar 30, 2011 at 2:37 PM
Subject: City funding of Pride - A Blood Libel
To: Mayor Ford Mayor_Ford@toronto.caMayor_Ford@toronto.ca mailto:Mayor_Ford@toronto.ca
Mayor_Ford@toronto.ca
Cc: councillor_wongtam@toronto.ca; councillor_vaughan@toronto.ca; councillor_thompson@toronto.ca; councillor_stintz@toronto.ca; councillor_shiner@toronto.ca; councillor_robinson@toronto.ca; councillor_perruzza@toronto.ca; councillor_perks@toronto.ca; councillor_pasternak@toronto.ca; councillor_parker@toronto.ca; councillor_palacio@toronto.ca; councillor_nunziata@toronto.ca; councillor_moeser@toronto.ca; councillor_milczyn@toronto.ca; councillor_mihevc@toronto.ca; councillor_mcmahon@toronto.ca; councillor_mcconnell@toronto.ca
councillor_mcconnell@toronto.ca mailto: councillor_mcconnell@toronto.ca
councillor_mcconnell@toronto.ca , councillor_matlow@toronto.ca
councillor_matlow@toronto.ca mailto: councillor_matlow@toronto.ca
councillor_matlow@toronto.ca , councillor_mammoliti@toronto.ca
councillor_mammoliti@toronto.ca mailto: councillor_mammoliti@toronto.ca
councillor_mammoliti@toronto.ca , councillor_lindsay_luby@toronto.ca
councillor_lindsay_luby@toronto.ca mailto:councillor_lindsay_luby@toronto.ca
councillor_lindsay_luby@toronto.ca , councillor_lee@toronto.ca
councillor_lee@toronto.ca mailto: councillor_lee@toronto.ca
councillor_lee@toronto.ca , councillor_layton@toronto.ca
councillor_layton@toronto.ca mailto: councillor_layton@toronto.ca
councillor_layton@toronto.ca , councillor_kelly@toronto.ca
councillor_kelly@toronto.ca mailto: councillor_kelly@toronto.ca
councillor_kelly@toronto.ca , councillor_holyday@toronto.ca
councillor_holyday@toronto.ca mailto: councillor_holyday@toronto.ca
councillor_holyday@toronto.ca , councillor_grimes@toronto.ca
councillor_grimes@toronto.ca mailto: councillor_grimes@toronto.ca
councillor_grimes@toronto.ca , councillor_fragedakis@toronto.ca
councillor_fragedakis@toronto.ca mailto:councillor_fragedakis@toronto.ca
councillor_fragedakis@toronto.ca , councillor_dford@toronto.ca
councillor_dford@toronto.ca mailto: councillor_dford@toronto.ca
councillor_dford@toronto.ca , councillor_fletcher@toronto.ca
councillor_fletcher@toronto.ca mailto: councillor_fletcher@toronto.ca
councillor_fletcher@toronto.ca , councillor_doucette@toronto.ca
councillor_doucette@toronto.ca mailto: councillor_doucette@toronto.ca
councillor_doucette@toronto.ca , councillor_digiorgio@toronto.ca
councillor_digiorgio@toronto.ca mailto: councillor_digiorgio@toronto.ca
councillor_digiorgio@toronto.ca , councillor_delgrande@toronto.ca
councillor_delgrande@toronto.ca mailto: councillor_delgrande@toronto.ca
councillor_delgrande@toronto.ca , councillor_debaeremaeker@toronto.ca
councillor_debaeremaeker@toronto.ca mailto:councillor_debaeremaeker@toronto.ca
councillor_debaeremaeker@toronto.ca , councillor_davis@toronto.ca
councillor_davis@toronto.ca mailto: councillor_davis@toronto.ca
councillor_davis@toronto.ca , councillor_crisanti@toronto.ca
councillor_crisanti@toronto.ca mailto: councillor_crisanti@toronto.ca
councillor_crisanti@toronto.ca , councillor_crawford@toronto.ca
councillor_crawford@toronto.ca mailto: councillor_crawford@toronto.ca
councillor_crawford@toronto.ca , councillor_colle@toronto.ca
councillor_colle@toronto.ca mailto: councillor_colle@toronto.ca
councillor_colle@toronto.ca , councillor_cho@toronto.ca
councillor_cho@toronto.ca mailto: councillor_cho@toronto.ca
councillor_cho@toronto.ca , councillor_carroll@toronto.ca
councillor_carroll@toronto.ca mailto: councillor_carroll@toronto.ca
councillor_carroll@toronto.ca , councillor_berardinetti@toronto.ca
councillor_berardinetti@toronto.ca mailto:councillor_berardinetti@toronto.ca
councillor_berardinetti@toronto.ca , councillor_bailao@toronto.ca
councillor_bailao@toronto.ca mailto: councillor_bailao@toronto.ca
councillor_bailao@toronto.ca , councillor_augimeri@toronto.ca
councillor_augimeri@toronto.ca mailto: councillor_augimeri@toronto.ca
councillor_augimeri@toronto.ca , councillor_filion@toronto.ca
councillor_filion@toronto.ca mailto: councillor_filion@toronto.ca
councillor_filion@toronto.ca


Ladies and Gentleman,

In case there are any doubts, I will repeat
that what we have here is a blatant blood libel against the Jewish People.
There is no difference between claiming that Israel is an Apartheid State
and the statement "Jews kill babies to use their blood for the baking of
matzos (unleavened bread). What is even more shocking is the position taken
by TD bank that "we are caught between a rock and and a hard place, and this
situation needs to be handled delicately." They then go on to quote The Rev
Hawkes recommendation::"Pride will establish a clear new rule barring
messages promoting "hatred, violence, degradation and negative stereotypes"
-a rule based word for word on the City of Toronto's own Anti-Discrimination
Policy." Further his committee recommends:"these rules will have teeth. As
of this year, anyone who believes that someone has promoted or will promote
hatred in the parade will be able to complain to an experienced adjudicator,
who will have the power to ban offending groups and individuals from the
parade."

Well, So far....nada..nothing! Imagine if a Jewish/Israeli group marched in
the parade, protesting Muslim attitudes to Gays and carrying Nazi swastikas
alongside a symbol of Islam. They would be banned in less than a blink of an
eyelid (at luckiest). No Committees, no political correctness, no hypocrisy
and no discussion. This situation with Qaia is the perfect example of raw
ant-semitism, and it is taking place for all to see. We call on all decent
people, to stand up for truth against lies, for love against hatred. Please
write your councillor. You can find his/her email at
http://app.toronto.ca/im/council/councillors.jsp
http://app.toronto.ca/im/council/councillors.jsp NEVER AGAIN!

Regards

Harry Bauskin

The Inconvenient Truth

FYI.

Sue-Ann Levy
City Hall Columnist
Toronto Sun



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Reader Comments


 
utterly ridiculous
Bauskin's comment that "There is no difference between claiming that Israel is an Apartheid State and the statement "Jews kill babies to use their blood for the baking of matzos" has got to be one of the most ridiculous statements I've heard in a long time. It looks like again this year the anti-QuAIA folks will be spreading lies and distortions of reality to try and silence any and all criticism of Israel. Can you imagine the uproar if members of the LGBT community started trying to dictate which Jewish groups could or could not participate in a Jewish event? The Jewish Defense League is an off shoot of an US terrorist group that goes by the same name that has been noted for its use of violence to achieve its political goals yet they often participate in Jewish events and even in last years Pride. Virulently anti-gay Jewish groups and speakers regularly participate in Jewish festivals yet they're complaining about QuAIA participating in Pride and QuAIA isn't even anti-Jewish let alone anti-Israel, just anti- Israeli policy towards the Palestinians. Looks like this year will be another fight for free speech during Pride thanks to the anti-gay bigots who have latched onto the anti-QuAIA bandwagon to try and hide their anti-gay bigotry much the same as the Catholic school board hides its anti-gay bigotry behind its bishop's report. If you don't like QuAIA then march in Pride pointing out what you see as the justice of Israel's treatment of Palestinians instead of trying to get all of Pride either shut down or dramatically scaled back because you don't like one group out of 1000 or whatever. Attacking the funding for Pride is attacking all of the LGBT communities in Toronto. QuAIA is not a hate group and doesn't use hate speech and as Torontonian queers have every right to march in Pride, unlike the terrorist linked thugs from the JDL who marched last year. Free speech is too important to toss aside to appease the anti-gay bigots on council.
Rich, Toronto Ontario
04/06/11 10:21 PM EST
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A correct assessment of Brent Hawkes?
Has Sue Ann Levy made a correct assessment of Brent Hawkes when she wrote the following? "The Rev. Brent Hawkes tour of Jewish media and basically whomever will listen to him is only about one thing: Saving face, keeping bums in the seats of his church and promoting the image of himself, Rev. Hawkes, as the self-appointed leader of Toronto's gay community."
Phil, Toronto Ontario
04/07/11 7:38 AM EST
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Rev. Brent Hawkes
i am honored to have served with Rev. Hawkes and a great team on the Community Advisory Panel to Pride Toronto. Under Brent's leadership we brought together almost 2000 people to share their diverse views about Pride. Ms. Levy's statements about Rev. Hawkes are completely false, malicious, damaging to individuals and to our community as a whole.
Michael Went, Toronto Ontario
04/07/11 8:48 AM EST
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attitude
Anyone noticed lately that there seems to be a prevailing attitude of letting the Jewish State and their culture do anything they wish to, mostly because of continuous media propaganda to remind everyone else how we purportedly failed them during the Nazi era (and just about every other time in history). It's like we're so ashamed of what happened 70 years ago that we're afraid to stand up and sometimes say that they might be in the wrong, and they're capitalizing on this, the same way some of the Arab countries do, just because they're our "allies". Human rights are unassailable, no matter who you are or where you come from!
Christopher King, Toronto ON
04/07/11 9:39 AM EST
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Earl Provost? WTF
Why is Earl Provost, a city employee ... engaging in lobbying activities (for or against) pride funding? That's a very, very big no-no. It's not only something that deserves a reprimand, but in a high profile issues like this,may be cause for dismissal. Xtra... Please follow up on this and hold City Hall accountable.
You CAN fight, City Hall
04/07/11 9:50 AM EST
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Code of Conduct
I realize that Councilor emails are public domain, but I still think it is unprofessional "journalism" to include them in such an open format. The content of purblishing someone's elses personal emails is low enough!
Bob, Toronto On
04/07/11 11:57 AM EST
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@Bob
Those are publicly promoted Councillors e-mail addresses. Easily accessible via the City Directory found at toronto.ca
Casey Oraa, Toronto ON
04/07/11 1:48 PM EST
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Yes De-fund the QuAIA and the left is lying
Richard Goldstone cleared Israel of everything the Gay Left accuses Israel of committing and why has not Xtra even point this out??? http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/reconsidering-the-goldstone-report-on-israel-and-war-crimes/2011/04/01/AFg111JC_story.html
Ben, Toronto ON
04/07/11 4:08 PM EST
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re: Ben
Ben the issue is not about defunding QuAIA, they don't get any funding, the issue is about defunding all of Pride because some don't like QuAIA's message but QuAIA is just one small group out of many hundreds so yes defunding Pride is an attack on everyone who participates in Pride, even the right wing nutjobs who are a part of Pride would lose out if Pride is defunded. As well the Goldstone report only dealt with the Israeli gov't directing its forces to single out and attack Palestinian civilians, something which without a doubt happened but the Goldstone report is saying that the Israeli gov't didn't direct its troops to do so, they did so on their own but not under orders from the the Israeli gov't. That has nothing to do with QuAIA's concerns at all anyways which is the Israeli policies that deny Palestinian human rights.
Rich, Toronto Ontario
04/07/11 5:45 PM EST
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QAIA
Once again a crackdown of Free Speech in Toronto. Heavy handed tactics against our Pluralistic Democracy. Even the editors of Haaretz and JPost write about Apartheid State. Can a gay jewish person marry a gay palestinian from the west bank. No because they are not jewish. Its an insult to the Sanity of everyone on the planet to suggest Apartheid does not exist in Israel. Ive met QAIA members a lot are jewish and have lost loved ones in the Holocust. The girl said when QAIA banned her group from marching in a way they censored her grandmother who died in the Holocust. The guilt of north american jews for not experiencing the horrors of ww2 does not justify israel getting away with murder and theft of the indiginous people of palestine. Stop using control of the media to disguise the Colonization in the Holy Land. its much worse than apartheid.
Ezra Patel, Toronto Ont
04/07/11 8:08 PM EST
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Who gave the email chain to Xtra?
I wonder who gave the email chain to Xtra.
Phil, Toronto Ontario
04/07/11 8:46 PM EST
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a new low for Xtra
I have advised those copied in your scurrilous journalism 'expose' that you have breached their privacy and security by electing to publish their e-mail addresses directly and trust they and their counsel will be in touch with you. I guess for Councillor Adam Vaughan and the left-fascists at Xtra and QuAIA, only some citizens (who support the NDP and QuAIA) and gay groups and publications have the right to lobby their councillors, not everyone. Shame on Vaughan and shame on you.
disgusted citizen, nowhere you can find me ditto
04/07/11 11:47 PM EST
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might have a problem with that
In regards to the previous comment, I don't think Xtra has much to worry about, if you notice those email addresses are all for city councilors, which are freely available along with their phone and fax numbers on the city website or they are for well known organizations which publish those email addresses on their respective sites, ever notice how most websites have a "Contact Us" link? try clicking on it sometime, you'll be amazed. Sending an email to a large number of people means it isn't exactly private either. Considering that the Sun's Levy is Ford's mouthpiece and it concerns city funding of Pride it is a very relevant email for an Xtra story. Mind you I love how you call Xtra "left-fascists" and give your location as "nowhere you can find me". I wish more people like you would write comments on this issue, not only on Xtra but the MSM sites when they cover this topic as well.
Rich, Toronto Ontario
04/08/11 3:23 AM EST
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Privacy concerns
But Rich, Xtra did publish the email addresses of people who are not city councillors, including email sddresses that look to be home addresses. But, I realize that Xtra will do ANYTHING to help QuAIA.
Phil, Toronto Ontario
04/08/11 6:29 AM EST
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mob democracy is not democracy
Thanks Rich. I meant Xtra violating the privacy of INDIVIDUALS not City Councillors by publishing this e-mail. But obviously your unwashed threatening bully boys are desperate - guess that 'free speech' is pretty expensive. Why not ask Hamas to sponsor QuAIA at Pride? They probably do already. I won't be there, and neither will most of my friends. And I don't read the gutter press anymore. Glad to hear Pride will likely lose city funding (they don't deserve our tax dollars) and probably TD funding soon too. You want 'free speech' to bash Jews and Israel? Pay for it yourself, or take it out of the collection plate of MCC Toronto, the self-appointed messiahs to the queers. Funny, Jesus was a Jew from Israel, you know, that non-apartheid state. Ova and out..
disgusted citizen, nowhere you can find me ditto
04/08/11 7:42 AM EST
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Rev. Brent Hawkes
Clarifying statement from Reverend Brent Hawkes, Chair of the Community Advisory Panel http://bit.ly/gJkIqR "Anti-Semitism is wrong. However, unfounded accusations of anti-Semitism are also wrong. They may serve to demonize vulnerable groups and alienate friends of Israel. We hope that the Jewish community and other supporters of Israel will trust that the objective of our rule is to curb hate speech, and respect our intentions. We hope that they will give our new enforcement system a chance to work. We may disagree on the best way to solve the problems of discrimination, but let us always debate our differences in a fair and respectful manner. When we turn on each other, we both have a great deal to lose."
Michael Went, Toronto Ontario
04/08/11 8:25 AM EST
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MCC: Christian church or community centre?
The last commenter raises a good point. Brent Hawkes and Metropolitan Community Church have taken many actions in the last year to support a rabid anti-Israel group: QuAIA. It's the latest example of Hawkes and MCC discarding numerous verses in the Bible that they disagree with. If you don't believe in the Bible, why keep calling yourself a Christian? Rather than keep calling himself a minister of a Christian church, Hawkes should just come clean and call himself the executive director of a gay community centre. MCC should change its name from Metropolitan Community Church to Metropolitan Community Centre.
Phil, Toronto Ontario
04/08/11 8:31 AM EST
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MCC and CAP are a sham
Having helped to win the right to privacy and equality for LGBT folks internationally, I don't see anything our dysfunctional LGBT 'community' of left-genuflecting Israelbashers and MCC and CAP and Pride Toronto and their colleagues have to offer anymore. That's the point. Our 'community' is irretrievably broken and corrupted. Sell yourselves if you like, to 'free speech' Jewbashers linked to Palestinian militant groups and radical left queer Muslims whose only escape from fatwas and lynchings is bashing Israel. MCC Toronto has an economic interest as do many in perpetuating the fiction of Pride and a 'community' in which they do their business. Smart money and smart queers have better things to do than engage in debates of attrition with deluded 'activists'. Swim in your own portapotty Pride sewage. What are you celebrating now? Commerce? Corruption? Infiltration by radical left elements who ignore their own creation of discriminatory and harassing climates for Jews and Israelis on grounds of ethnicity, religion, creed, conscience, and national origin? Who put Brent Hawkes up to this? And which 'Jews' consulted with him? This process is a whitewash and we know QuAIA and front groups like the Pride Coalition for Free Speech will be bashing Israel at Pride for years to come. Do it on your own nickel. We don't need to 'dialogue' with friends of QuAIA and MCC Toronto who have regularly hosted queer Israelbashers who have harassed our community. Clean up your own mess. You have nothing to offer that we need anymore. Better yet, pay for it yourselves. Israel's economy is outperforming Ca-na-duh's, and ask your boycott artists how well the broke Toronto Women's Bookstore has done since bashing Israel in 2002. You're on the wrong side of history. As Nietzsche said, "Let the failures be failures". Enjoy your great unwashed Hitler youth and the continuing impoverishment and decline of your 'community'. I know I am.
disgusted citizen, nowhere you can find me ditto
04/08/11 8:42 AM EST
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Reason over hate
What a headache!! On the one hand I certainly do not blame those Jews and non-Jews who want to see QuAIA out of the parade. They have been the albatross around our neck and may bring the entire roof down on us. On the other where do we seperate the right of assembly and the protection against hate? I really want to trust Rev. Brent and the Cap process. I do believe in process and do hope that it in the end will do the right thing. I also see that some Jewish leaders on Levy's list are not homophobes at all but have been more than supportive of LGBTQ issues. Wasn't Mr. Farber even at Rev. Brent's birthday bash? So lets put our faith in those who understand our needsand hope that reason and rationality win out against hate.
Thomas James Ouimette, Toronto Ontario
04/08/11 10:41 AM EST
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give me a freaking break
"Disgusted Citizen", there's not a single e-mail address in that entire message that isn't the publicly accessible work e-mail address of a public figure. Which means either you're deliberately astroturfing or you can't read. And neither one of those possibilities makes you in any way qualified to decide who speaks for me as a queer person and who doesn't. So shut it.
Craig, Toronto Ontario
04/08/11 1:19 PM EST
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Craig, get a brain transplant
My last comment for now. I do hope you deluded desperate frivolous faggots and fugugly feministas will enjoy your new radical left Hitler Youth bedfellows at QuAIA and MCC and CAP, especially the ones with the same discourse as the Muslim terrorists seeking to eliminate Jews and Israel and oh, yes, western democracies. Be sure to ask them how long it took them till they abandoned Stalin, and read Hannah Arendt (a Holocaust survivor) on The Origins of Totalitarianism. I won gay rights but my 'community' does not include guttersnipes like Craig or QuAIA or their apologists, or the drunken diseased scum at Toronto Pride, or dancin' stepinfetchit to entertain tourists and straight corporations. I don't think all the e-mail addresses are public, as Craig claims, especially not for the Jews quoted there, who by the way have been suffering hate crimes rising exponentially in this discourse intifada you have created. Only delusional Christians believe in Jesus as G-d and the Pride Community Advisory Panel chaired by Rev. Brent Hawkes. You have proven yourselves unworthy of investment and attention, and unable to govern yourselves and your dysfunctional institutions. Pay for your own Portaporty party. We can only hope Pride Toronto and CAP and MCC and QuAIA and their supporters will soon be as bankrupt financially as they are morally, and that includes Craig, who evidently sees this e-mail as worthwhile journalism. You shut it Craig, and do tell us just what you and QuAIA and your Queer Muslims have done for gay rights. I'm guessing nothing. So buh-bye - go fuck yourselves you useless drunken goyim, but you have already.
disgusted citizen, nowhere you can find me ditto
04/08/11 4:00 PM EST
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''disgusted''
Wow dude you really do sound disgusted. Maybe take some anger management or something. Just because people have a different opinion than you do does not make them Hitler youth. Also a phrase like "useless drunken goyim" doesn't necessarily help your argument when you are trying to call _other_ people racist.
Sav., Toronto ON
04/08/11 6:24 PM EST
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Anger is appropriate - idiocy isn't
Yes, anger is the point, and anger is appropriate. You useless goyim have acquiesced in the demonization and marginalization of your queer Jewish and Israeli brothers and sisters. You didn't stand up for us, why should we stand up for you? History repeats itself, and now this gutter rag and Councillor Vaughan try to suggest Jews like Sue Ann Levy or others ought not lobby their public servants. This is a war in our community, and you have done nothing to stand up against the idiocy and hatred in your midst. If you think the nice Jews are going to play along with your nice kangaroo courts and CAP and self-serving MCC Toronto process, you are dreaming in queer rainbow technicolour. We don't even have to do anything now, just watch you implode under your own momentum. Oh, the UN abandoned zionism is racism but the Muslim terrorist supporters and their friends have cottoned onto recruiting you with false claims of 'Israeli apartheid' as your new 'human rights' priority. Why not ask them to focus on the real apartheid in Ca-na-duh when Jews are singled out like this and forced to debate with ignoramuses or the real lack of democracy and LGBT rights in Muslim and Arab countries, or the lack of accountability and civility in our progressive 'community'? We are well aware of your mob bully tactics. Incidentally, one benefit of Pride in Tel Aviv is fewer Jewbashers. And it's human scale. Not like Taronna. So, sayonara. We have nothing to gain by playing nice with your dumbfucks, and pay for your little Jewbashing parties by yourselves. And when no one takes you hypocrites seriously or invests in your decadent culture (Weimar Germany was also known for its progressive queer culture), and when your organizations become broke and Judenrein as they are already, or when you start losing human rights lawsuits for creating hostile and intimidating and discriminatory climates, don't come crying to us. Debate yourselves and talk to the hand, because we're outa here.
disgusted citizen, nowhere you can find me ditto
04/08/11 6:49 PM EST
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Irony
''We don't even have to do anything now, just watch you implode under your own momentum.''
Sav., Toronto ON
04/08/11 7:00 PM EST
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uh, wrong
"Disgusted Citizen", you think you're qualified to make presumptions about my politics, or to decree that I'm a "guttersnipe", just because I disagreed with you about the public vs. private status of a list of e-mail addresses? Really? Let's go over this once: every single e-mail address in the above e-mail is at one of four domains: the City of Toronto, the Friends of the Simon Wiesenthal Centre, the Canadian Jewish Congress and/or the law office of Martin Gladstone. Those are all professional work domains, every last one of them; there is not a single private personal e-mail address in the bunch. Just for the record, I'm not a "guttersnipe", and you are in *no* way entitled to cast aspersions on my politics or my fitness as a member of the LGBT community. So take your anger, wad it up into a ball and stick it in the gopher hole of your choice -- because the gay community are not your enemy in any way, shape or form.
Craig, Toronto Ontario
04/08/11 7:26 PM EST
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and one more thing, for the record...
Is there anti-Semitism on the left? Sure, I don't deny that there must be an antisemitic left-winger or two somewhere in the world -- but I've certainly never met one. "Hitler Youth" and Nazism and the Holocaust were phenomena of the *right* wing, not the left. I'm not defending QuAIA, necessarily -- I've always been uncomfortable with the "Israeli apartheid" construction for a variety of reasons, although ironically everybody I know who's a vocal defender of "apartheid" discourse in reference to Israel is Jewish themselves -- but your reaction to me was *way* out of line with anything I said, and your overall tone in this whole discussion has been unbelievably hyperbolic and overheated and inappropriate.
Craig, Toronto Ontario
04/08/11 7:36 PM EST
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Left-wing anti-Semitism
Craig wrote: "I don't deny that there must be an anti-Semitic left-winger or two somewhere in the world -- but I've certainly never met one". Unfortunately Craig, there have been more than two left-wing anti-Semites. In fact, there's been a lot. Here's reading list for you: http://www.paulbogdanor.com/antisemitism.html
Joe, Toronto Ontario
04/08/11 9:17 PM EST
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criticism of Israeli policy not anti-semitism
Joe how many on your list are there because they're critical of Israeli policy towards to he Palestinians? Probably most of them considering the number of Israel right or wrong Jewish groups in Canada that count any criticism of Israel as acts of anti-semitism in their annual reports on the topic. Just the fact that anti-oppression human rights groups, like QuAIA, get labeled anti-semitic shows how meaningless the term anti-semitism has become in today's world where accusations of it are thrown around like confetti at a wedding. Actual anti-semitism, the hatred of people just for being Jewish, is not consistent with left wing ideals of equality, justice and anti-oppression. Actual anti-semitism has traditionally been the domain of the right wing, with certain exceptions like the USSR which was hardly a bastion of left wing idealism, or even Marxism for that matter. Right wing groups such as the Nazis leap to mind, it bears repeating that fascism is a right wing ideology, people who use such phrases as "left wing fascists" are just demonstrating their lack of education. Much of the anti-semitism in the Islamic world comes from right wing authoritarian governments which dominate the Arab world. Other right wing groups such as the KKK and Stormfront are notoriously anti-semitic in the very real sense of the term as opposed to the way you use it to mean criticism of Israeli policies. Even right wing Christian evangelicals which are among Israel's most ardent supporters only do so because they believe that the second coming of Jesus will only happen once Jews control all of the land their god said they could have in the bible, and make no mistake about it, these right wing evangelical defenders of Israel firmly believe that even though Jewish control of the land is needed for Jesus's second coming they still believe all Jews are hell bound heathens. Just because some left leaning groups defend Palestinian human rights hardly makes them hot-beds of actual anti-s
Rich, Toronto Ontario
04/09/11 12:24 AM EST
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RE: Rich go to Calgary
The KKK always say are 'Anti Zionist' I use to live in Calgary, the home of the KKK in Canada, they used this all the time in justify thier hate towards Jews, blacks and the LGBT community. KKK even use the "Human Rights" and even the Palestinian People in their hate towards Jews, blacks and gays. Also know that the left in Canada are in the same boat as them and they can not see the difference. They use the far left to justify their "Anti Zionism" and say it 'free speech'. It gives them credibility in what they do best. They all think we are apart of a Zionist plot to take over the world. Unlike the far left they use to be funded by Muammar Gaddafi the leader of Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya.
Ben, Toronto ON
04/09/11 1:14 AM EST
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but to be fair
I could see why some could link the far right with the current actions of the far left.
Ben, Toronto ON
04/09/11 1:22 AM EST
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A distinction that no one makes...
I think one of the key problems with this whole ongoing discussion (and not just when related to QAIA and/or pride) is that there should be a difference between critique of israeli policy vs critique of israel vs critique of jewish people. Of course the last two are not acceptable, but are you anti-semitic if you engage in the first? No way. I think the Canadian government has made some bad decisions lately. If I advocate against those decisions, does that make me anti-Canadian or racist against Canadian people? Absolutely not. QAIA definitely uses some strong language, and an independent judicial organization should decide if they are crossing the line into hate speech and anti-semitism. If yes, then kick them out of the parade. Defunding all of Pride Toronto because of one group is not acceptable or logical.
Jess, Toronto ON
04/09/11 7:43 AM EST
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Israel is the only country attacked at Pride
Gay-friendly Israel is the only country attacked at Pride by QuAIA and the gay Left. No one marches at Pride against the homophobic Muslim countries that are Israel's enemies and that kill and persecute gays and oppress women. In the words of Stephen Harper - "Israel, like any country, may be subjected to fair criticism... But when Israel, the only country in the world whose very existence is under attack, is consistently and conspicuously singled out for condemnation, I believe we are morally obligated to take a stand ... the easiest thing to do is simply to just get along and go along with this anti-Israeli rhetoric, to pretend it is just about being even-handed and to excuse oneself with the label of honest broker... history shows us, and the ideology of the anti-Israeli mob tell us all too well if we listen to it, that those who threaten the existence of the Jewish people are a threat to all of us.”
Joe, Toronto Ontario
04/09/11 9:10 AM EST
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Joe
Israel is the only country in the world that physically assaults queer Palestinians as a matter of state policy, forces them to pass through military checkpoints purely on the basis of their ethnicity, demolishes their houses, confiscates their land, arbitrarily arrests them and detains them without recourse to law or legal defense, starves them inside of Gaza and occasionally bombs them. The fact that Israel does these things to straight Palestinians as well does not excuse them for targeting Palestinians queers along with everyone else.
Sav., Toronto ON
04/09/11 3:07 PM EST
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Sav can't mean Savvy
Sav, could you and your pro-Palestinian friends explain why Palestinian and Muslim queers are lynched in the PA and Gaza by their Muslim brethren, and also in every other Muslim or Arab country, and why there are no democratic freedoms for women or dissidents either? And could you explain the documented link between 28 Palestinian militant groups and your 'Israel apartheid' intifada? And could you explain why you think terrorism is a form of freedom fighting? And could you explain why all your dumb lefty friends think falsely claiming Israel is an apartheid state doesn't erase the democratic freedoms or LGBT rights there, or its struggles to free itself from terrorists and their apologists like you? And could you explain why Israel and Jews by extension are suffering terror and security threats exacerbated by your QuAIA scum chanting Viva Viva Intifada and why you think intimidating and harassing Jews at Pride is your human rights priority, as opposed to protecting LGBT rights of your Palestinian friends? Actually, loosey, you have a lot of explaining to do.
Solidarity This, Toronto ON
04/09/11 5:07 PM EST
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Queer leftists should leave the West
Go live in a muslim country you lefty fuck wits. See how long you survive in the medieval societies you defend.
ron, Vancouver BC
04/09/11 5:10 PM EST
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International Human Rights
Joe, Pride Toronto has had an International Human Rights program for several years. Countries of focus have included Sri Lanka, Jamaica and Uganda. There were also marchers in the parade and the community fair talking about Muslim countries like Iran.
Michael Went, Toronto Ontario
04/09/11 8:16 PM EST
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Nothing like QuAIA
Michael Went, if such marchers existed, they certainly weren't that visible. I didn't see them. They didn't have the numbers, the signs, the chanting or the visibility that QuAIA has at the Parade (or, for that matter, that your own "Pride Free Speech Coalition" had at last year's parade). And, they certainly weren't showing any outrage by chanting slogans against homophobic Muslim countries or holding up signs condemning homophobic Muslim countries like QuAIA does with Israel.
Joe, Toronto Ontario
04/09/11 8:39 PM EST
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the difference being...
Joe there most certainly have been groups marching and condemning the anti-LGBT policies of Muslim and other countries in Pride for as long as I can remember, I've been attending Pride since the early 1990s though I have missed several years I assume they were there those years as well. The difference between such groups and QuAIA is that those other groups are not an issue and quickly forgotten about, much like QuAIA was the first couple of years they marched in Pride. It wasn't until the organized smear campaign against QuAIA that most people started taking notice of them. In fact I have no recollection of QuAIA marching during their first couple of years participating and I attended those Prides. The first indication I had of this issue was reading a report from somewhere that a hate group had marched at the previous Pride, shocked and disgusted that such a thing could have happened I looked into it myself, I was curious as to what a queer hate group was like so I checked out QuAIA's website only to discover that they weren't a hate group at all, they were just anti-oppression human rights activists critical of Israel's policies towards the Palestinians. The ironic thing is that if it weren't for the organized smear campaign and the attempts to silence QuAIA they would have remained as small and easily ignored by 98% of Pride attendees, like they were during their first two years marching, as those groups protesting against other countries' policies and behaviour that you can't seem to recall being at Pride in spite of their presence. The efforts of the anti-QuAIA side has made QuAIA larger and spread their message to many millions more people than they ever could have done on their own. If the anti-QuAIA folks had decided to allow QuAIA to have their own opinions on the issue QuAIA would today be as small as those groups you forget about so easily and their message would remain as unknown. Censorship is always a failure and never going to be acceptable at Pride.
Rich, Toronto Ontario
04/09/11 9:59 PM EST
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QuAIA's hate has always been very loud and visible
Sorry Rich, I don't agree with your version of history (not surprisingly, given your almost daily support of QuAIA on Xtra's discussion boards in the last year). QuAIA's hate at Pride has always been very loud and visible. See http://reclaimingourpride.ca/
Joe, Toronto Ontario
04/09/11 10:32 PM EST
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why won't the city decide?
What I want to know is why the city is still refusing to make an unbiased determination of whether or not QuAIA violates the city's anti-discrimination policy. Actually I'm pretty certain I know the reason already, its because there's already been 3 independent unbiased legal evaluations done and all 3 have found that QuAIA participating in Pride does not violate the city's anti-discrimination policy. In fact banning QuAIA from Pride would violate the anti-discrimination policy since it forbids discriminating against people or groups on the basis of their political beliefs which is the exact reason some are trying to ban them from Pride. I believe we should be demanding that the city have an unbiased legal determination made on whether or not QuAIA violates the anti-discrimination policy immediately. That way we can get back to dealing with much more important matters like the lack of GSAs in Catholic high schools instead of working to censor groups with politically incorrect opinions like QuAIA. A reminder that QuAIA does not get funding from the city even indirectly, Pride does, trying to take away funding from Pride only hurts all the hundreds of organizations and the hundreds of thousands of people who participate in Pride while giving QuAIA a very large platform from which to spread their message and making your side look like bullies.
Rich, Toronto Ontario
04/09/11 10:35 PM EST
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The real bullies
Rick, you talk about bullies. I think that the actions of QuAIA and Xtra in the last year against those who oppose them show that they are the real bullies.
Joe, Toronto Ontario
04/09/11 10:42 PM EST
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Everyone at Pride is loud
Joe everyone at Pride is generally pretty loud, and if you're basing your info on the thoroughly discredited Gladstone production of reclaiming our pride its not wonder you have such a distorted view. I won't go into all the problems with Gladstone's video, that would take hours and many pages. First off though he uses scenes from other demonstrations/events as evidence against QuAIA even though the video footage he uses has nothing at all to do with QuAIA or even Toronto Pride for that matter, he purposefully misrepresents the footage as something its not. As well one of his other claims that QuAIA sported swastikas has been proven to be utter hogwash, what did happen is someone marching near QuAIA, who wasn't even a member of QuAIA (but if he was it wouldn't change anything) was wearing a well known anti-fascist t-shirt, it has a swastika with a red line through it as in a no smoking symbol so the shirt's message was clearly anti-nazi, not pro-nazi like Gladstone claims, as well someone, perhaps Gladstone, perhaps someone working for him, no one knows for sure, originally photoshopped out the red line, the "anti" symbol to make it look like it was a t-shirt with a swastika as in a pro-nazi symbol, the exact opposite of the shirt's actual message. It wasn't until other footage of this marcher was found clearly showing that it was an anti-nazi t-shirt and not a pro-nazi t-shirt like Gladstone claimed that their narrative changed from QuAIA being nazis to QuAIA comparing Jews to nazis, how exactly an anti-nazi t-shirt was re-imagined to be calling Jews nazis is beyond me yet it happened, The un-photoshopped t-shirt can be seen here http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=851983441771&set=o.352762041138&theater There are also so many other problems, lies and distortions of reality in that video to make it a fine example of propaganda at its worst. Check out QuAIA's website for yourself and compare it to what you've been told by Gladstone about th
Rich, Toronto Ontario
04/09/11 10:54 PM EST
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More patronizing from Rich
Rich, I really resent your continued patronizing attitude. I have been to the QuAIA website on several occasions. I have seen QuAIA supporters like Elle Flanders, Jenny Peto, Tim McKaskill, John Greyson and Rick Telfer in action at various venues and events. I have read articles and internet posts that they have written. Do you think that I am some sort of bystander? I know exactly what they are all about. Martin Gladstone and Sue Ann Levy are right.
Joe, Toronto Ontario
04/09/11 11:12 PM EST
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If the Middle East
is a gay issue then why is the QuAIA only focusing in on Israel? Syria real Apartheid regime is a country that is ruled by a shi'a minority over a Sunni Majority, does not give basic rights to Palestinians such as health care, education, can not hold government positions, can not own property who are not allow to become citizens(even when born in the country), rent apartments, etc..Also they been killing their own people who want this regime to end and they are dying to demand their freedom. In Syira they are second class citizens. Also Palestinians are not Israeli because Palestinians government is Hamas the the PLO. Arabs in Israel can vote in elections, hold public office, Sue the State and own land(they can.etc and are equal under the Basics Laws of Israel. Yes Racism in Israel does exist and yes Racism toward Arabs of Israel does exist but it is no different then what Happens in Canada or any minority
Your, Bias Sucks
04/10/11 4:23 AM EST
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@ Sav Richard Goldstone says something else
Israel does not target Palestinians as a matter of state policy. Richard Goldstone says"That the crimes allegedly committed by Hamas were intentional goes without saying — its rockets were purposefully and indiscriminately aimed at civilian targets. The allegations of intentionality by Israel were based on the deaths of and injuries to civilians in situations where our fact-finding mission had no evidence on which to draw any other reasonable conclusion. While the investigations published by the Israeli military and recognized in the U.N. committee’s report have established the validity of some incidents that we investigated in cases involving individual soldiers, they also indicate that civilians were not intentionally targeted as a matter of policy."-- Richard Goldstone :http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/reconsidering-the-goldstone-report-on-israel-and-war-crimes/2011/04/01/AFg111JC_story.html (soure: came from Ben link) You said " Gaza and occasionally bombs them" then tell Hamas to stop firing rockets at Israeli Civilians and hiding behind their civilians while firing the Rocket. Then Israel would not have too and any nation on Earth would do the same thing a few days ago Hamas fire a rocket at a School bus with Children Wow! even Human Rights Watch want this to end they have demanded it to:http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2011/03/01/gaza-stop-rocket-attacks-against-israel-civilians
Your, Bias Sucks
04/10/11 4:42 AM EST
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Muslim Protests for 'Democracy'
Anyone else noticed that in the bloody battles for Muslim democracy in Egypt, Libya, Yemen, etc. we have seen some anti-Israel rhetoric but no rallies against 'Israeli Apartheid'? Yes, because there is no such thing. And will your holier-than-tofu activists be giving Canada back to the natives and talking about injustice in Canada? And will they mention the link between their manipulation by pro-terrorist groups and the shared interest of the collapse of Canada and Pride Toronto? The real freedom at this point is freedom from this. Freedom to associate in Canada includes the right to be free of hate crimes and harassment, which CAP should acknowledge. If at this point you don't understand how your actions and omissions have threatened our community and the Jews in it, or why Jewish sites need security from the likes of your radical anti-Israel scum, or why hate crimes are increasing by bleating propaganda like 'apartheid' and singling out Israel and Jews for demonization at Pride by manipulating our community and its media, there really is nothing for us to talk about. You took the city's best party and you turned it into the Nazi Party. Good riddance to bad rubbish. Call us when your 'free speech' activists support groups like Queers Against Queers Against Israeli 'Apartheid' and Queers Against Left Wing Idiots Who Endanger Our Community, or better yet, when they have the presence of mind to tell QuAIA to stop damaging our community. There is no 'going home again' and there is nothing more Pride or CAP or MCC have to offer in any meaningful way. How ironic that the 'free speech' advocates who are party to harassing and intimidating Jews and embarrassing and impoverishing our LGBT community are now telling Jews to 'be polite or risk changing the outcome'. We know your QuAIA scum and the naive Pride Coalition For Free Speech are here to stay, and we're lucky to be free enough not to need to bother with you anymore. You deal with it.
Freedom to Dissociate, Toronto ON
04/10/11 8:43 AM EST
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International Human Rights
I marched with Pride Toronto's International Human Rights contingent for three years in a row from 2006 to 2009. This is usually one of the first two or three entries in the main Sunday parade. I would agree and fully support increased participation and attention to human rights concerns for LGBTQ peoples both in Canada and around the world. I have encouraged and will continue to encourage people to participate. Here are two ways you can do so: 1. For more information about this year's Pride Toronto human rights program, visit: http://www.pridetoronto.com/festival/human-rights/ 2. Amnesty International has an LGBTQ group that has participated. For more information, visit: http://www.aito.ca/ http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2260758290
Michael Went, Toronto Ontario
04/10/11 7:28 PM EST
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QuAIA
Being a Jew I see a lot of the propaganda from the other side and am disgusted. But I'm equivalently disgusted by QuAIA's co-opting of gay pride as well as their blatant support for the complete elimination of Israel. Just look at their website: http://queersagainstapartheid.org/apartheid/. Look at the maps; look at their selective use of a quote by one paper-pushing fathead in the 50s, Ben-Zion Dinur. Does anyone realize Dinur was considered a moron by the bulk of Israelis at the time? Should I judge all Americans because former cabinet minister Fred Thompson made obnoxious remarks about Jews (as did Billy Carter, Strom Thurmond, George Wallace, Jesse Jackson, etc.)? Toronto's gay community shouldn't allow QuAIA to push their biased viewpoint, which is completely irrelevant from a gay rights perspective, at a Gay Pride event. Btw, gays have civil rights in Israel.
Sam, Ottawa Ontario
04/13/11 7:15 PM EST
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It's not about Israel
It reallly has nothing to do with Israel really. This whole business is all about the egos of certain prima donnas on the left, including Sav, Tim, Elle, Matt, Rich and about 17 other media whores. They just love this shit. No matter what happens, they've won because they've turned Pride (a treasured gay affair) into their political poo-flinging contest. I don't know what it is. They can't get laid. They've been unable to find jobs to match their earning potential. They didn't get enough attention from their mothers. They were beat up at school. Who knows.
Jim, Toronto Ontario
04/13/11 8:27 PM EST
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'Imagine if a Jewish/Israeli group..'
Actually, the description rendered 'protesting Muslim attitudes and carrying Nazi swastikas alongside a symbol of Islam,' could very well describe the new JDL-EDL anti-Muslim hate alliance. The Jewish Defence League Canada has now entered into alliance with just the sort of neo-nazi bunch the EDL tries so hard to hide. Just google, EDL and Nazi and see what you get.
John, Toronto Ont
04/15/11 1:17 AM EST
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it really isn't about Israel
You're right in that regard Jim, it isn't about Israel nearly so much as it is about censorship and freedom of expression for queers in Toronto at Toronto Pride. As has been pointed out repeatedly there have always been groups protesting different countries and their policies at Pride, including Muslim countries as well as others. Except the majority of people at Pride never cared one iota about these groups because they were protesting countries most didn't care about and had nothing to do with the party aspect of Pride. But along comes QuAIA and they dare to do what good little Jews and human rights supporters are never supposed to do and criticized the policies of Israel, again no big deal, the vast majority ignored them the same as all the other human rights groups protesting the policies of other countries except for Gladstone and a few others who created a smear campaign based on a propaganda video full of outright lies and distortions of reality to try and silence the opinions of QuAIA. Its always been those trying to silence dissent on Israeli policy who have been doing the "poo-flinging" during Pride by spreading outrageous lies and distortions of reality in an effort to get QuAIA banned or censored. QuAIA has never tried to do anything more than march during Pride and express their political views, they've defended themselves from attack of course but its been Gladstone and the pro-censorship side that has been on the warpath and not just against QuAIA but against all of the LGBT communities by attacking Pride and its funding and never missing an opportunity to bring this issue up nor missing any opportunity for name calling and outright lies to try and silence those who have differing opinions on Israel's policies than them. The anti-QuAIA side has even gone so far as to align themselves with those anti-gay bigots the JDL whose US chapter is a confirmed terrorist and hate group like the KKK. Jim think again about who has added this ugliness to P
Rich, Toronto Ontario
04/15/11 2:07 AM EST
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