Klinck and Goodhandy step in as Pride grand marshals
TORONTO NEWS / Selected as runners-up earlier this year
Xtra staff / National / Thursday, June 03, 2010
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UPDATE: 6 JUNE 2010, 6:32PM By Matt Mills

Pride grand marshal Todd Klinck reiterated his postion on accepting the honour on facebook this evening. Read his open letter here.  

UPDATE: 4 JUNE 2010 9:10am by Matt Mills

"They were bound to find somebody as they kept going down the list," QuAIA spokesperson Tim McCaskell tells Xtra of Pride's replacement grand marshals announcement. "I see that he's encouraged us to march anyway and get arrested. That's interesting.

"We’re not going to denounce anyone for accepting this even though we’re disappointed that given that all these other people have stood in solidarity around these issues," he continues. "We would expect some sort of gesture from [Klinck] to make clear his support for free speech in the parade."

McCaskell suggests Klinck could, as grand marshal, wear a QuAIA T-shirt in the parade and get arrested along with QuAIA.

In the comments section below, Klinck clarified a comment he made to Xtra last night about the role of the City of Toronto in PrideToronto's choice to censor QuAIA.

Xtra did ask Klinck about whether the city ought to be held accountable for Pride's decision.

Below is a transcript of that portion of our conversation:

Mills: Wow, just when you think you know which way things are going to go, it gets somewhat complicated. This is a curve ball.

Klinck: I hope that this can be something positive. We have a lot of people who support us, and I hope they don’t turn against us. I think there’s still room for dissent, and I think there’s still room for us to have a kick-ass Pride festival and have these discussions and debate without folks just destroying the organization. And possibly still be able to make them change their mind or find out more about it.

[Ed's note: Klinck did not say, "without these folks destroying," as I reported last night. He said "without folks just destroying."]

Mills: Would you say that the city is to blame for putting Pride Toronto in this positon?

Klinck: From what I hear and what I read, I feel that it does seem that the city is a major reason. You're going to have to be investigative journalists and delve into that more. I don't know all the details. This is somewhat new to me but it sounds like it, certainly.

Mills: We have delved into the details. It's clearly pressure from various levels of government and judging by everything we have reported on, it's pretty clear that Pride Toronto, frankly, bent like a reed in the wind. As soon as the city raised the spectre that there could be counsequences if they didn't choose to censor these words, Pride just capitulated without question.

Klinck: The "without question" part is the part you might want to delve into.

Mills: We have delved into it, on our website. There's a pretty strong paper trail, correspondence between Pride Toronto and the city to try to wriggle out of this position with QuAIA. There's no indication that Pride at any point said to the city that censoring these folks is something that is problematic and that they're not prepared to do.

Ed's note: Read Pride Toronto plans to censor term "Queers Against Israeli Apartheid." And Pride Toronto's board resolution to censor "Israeli Apartheid."

Klinck: Yeah, they don't appear to be super organized over there.....

Todd Klinck


Although there is a motion before council to defund Pride, it has not passed. The city has so far taken no direct or open action to defund Pride Toronto because of QuAIA's participation.

"Certain individuals in the city have been doing stuff and Mammoliti has made his motion," says McCaskell. "Both of those things could be construed as bullying of Pride along with Martin Gladstone, but Pride needs to take responsibility for its decisions."


UPDATE: 3 JUNE 2010 6:35pm by Matt Mills


Just days after Dr Alan Li withdrew as grand marshal of the 2010 Toronto Pride celebration, Pride Toronto has announced replacement grand marshals.

Li declined the accolade after PT capitulated to pressure from city and corporate funders to censor the term “Israeli apartheid” from the Pride parade, effectively banning the group Queers Against Israeli Apartheid (QuAIA) from marching. The move sparked outrage from QuAIA members and many in the queer community.

Todd Klinck and Mandy Goodhandy, proprietors of Goodhandy’s nightclub, were the runners-up to Li in the PT grand marshal vote earlier this year. They've accepted the roles of grand marshals this year.

“With this being the Pride’s 30th year, it was important that we accepted it and do the best we can to honour and celebrate this and make this festival the best it can be,” Klinck told Xtra.

Klinck says whether or not QuAIA should be allowed to march in the parade is a complicated question.

“Do I think they should be allowed to march as human beings who believe in free speech? Absolutely,” he says. “I think they should even if it’s an act of civil disobedience. Even if they get arrested they should march on their own terms. But I’m not going to address whether Pride Toronto should allow them to because it’s a complicated issue based on other things.

Does that mean Klinck encourages QuAIA to march?

“I’m a big fan of people just not taking shit and going for it,” he says. “Absolutely.”

Klinck says PT is in a difficult position and its decision to ban QuAIA may have been the wrong one.

“But a jury of people gave us this honour – not Pride Toronto; the community – and we have been asked to represent this community.”

More than 100 people turned out to protest PT’s decision to ban QuAIA at a May 25 PT press conference and at least three Pride honourees have repudiated their honours, but Klinck says he’s prepared to face any criticism.

“We’re used to controversy and we feel the causes we stand for are controversial,” he says. “Even opening the doors of our business is controversial. We are not scared of controversy or heat. We think we’re doing the right thing. That’s their choice, I respect their choice but they pulled out for their own reasons, we’re accepting for our own reasons.”


“I hope that this can be something positive. We have a lot of people who support us and I hope they don’t turn against us. I think there’s still room for dissent and I think there’s still room for us to have a kick-ass Pride festival and have these discussions and debate without these folks destroying the organization.”


3 JUN, 6pm

Open Letter from Todd Klinck and Mandy Goodhandy re: Nomination for Grand Marshal of Pride 2010:

We are writing this open letter to the community to announce that we have been chosen as Grand Marshals of the Pride 2010 Parade, and we are delighted and honoured to accept this role.

Mandy and I have been working tirelessly to promote diversity, educate people and defend the rights of the queer spectrum. Through the establishment of our club "Goodhandy's", we have provided a venue for community events and a place where trans people, gays, lesbians, fetishists, nudists, sex workers, bisexuals, and all their supporters and admirers meet under one roof for fundraisers, dance parties, sex parties, networking and more. 

Choosing Mandy and I to represent the community, 2 former sex workers, 1 trans person and 1 queer male, sends a strong message to those who feel Pride is a white-washed corporate event. This highlights that unique and radical queers are an important and integral part of our community.

We will be extending invitations to all of the groups who have worked with Goodhandy's in the hope that they will form a huge, colourful, loud, obnoxious, fun and crazy marching contingent in support of 30 years of Pride. Examples of some of the groups we hope will march with us: TNT!MEN (Totally Naked Toronto Men Enjoying Nudity), Northbound Leather, Queer Idol (a singing contest), Sodom: Toronto's Decadent Dance Party, degenderit (a drag and burlesque festival), Sex Professionals of Canada, Dirty Sexy Party (the gay porn appreciation party), Team Goodhandy's (our Multiple Sclerosis Bike fundraising team) and more. We look at our nomination as a victory, and as a return to the roots of Pride in the Stonewall tradition. How far we have come from the days of bathhouse raids, to today, when two hookers are being asked to lead the community!

We are fully aware of the controversy going on between the community and Pride Toronto, due to a very difficult decision Pride Toronto felt they had to make regarding allowing a group to use the phrase "Israeli Apartheid". We are aware that we were the 2nd choice as Pride Marshals, and are only getting this opportunity because the 1st choice chose to not participate due to this controversy. We understand that this debate is ongoing, and we hope that in the end, all groups can march without censorship, but we are going to focus our energies towards the positive side of things. We are going to concentrate on celebrating diversity, and on bringing attention to the very important issues that the queer community has been fighting for 30 years.

We think that this Festival is incredibly important to our city, and our communities. Many of the hundreds of thousands of people who visit, many of whom come from small towns, find solace in finally feeling what it's like to have community and safety.

We weighed the options carefully, and made our decision to accept this honour as an affirmation of the queer work we have dedicated our lives to. We hope that the community will stand behind us as we enter the fourth decade of this festival.


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Reader Comments


 
SO SAD
You have been in this area for a long time and it is very sad to see that you are going to accept this role. You will face a lot of lost in your business as you seem not to care any more about FREE SPEECH....Where would GAY PRIDE be without FREE SPEECH.....you have let the gay community down......I will never buy a drink or support your bar any more....big big big mistake....
DJ, Toronto Ontario
06/03/10 6:35 PM EST
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Hypocrisy
"We hope that the community will stand behind us..." Then why not stand WITH your community in opposing this censorship, as Alan Li, Jane Farrow, and Michelle Walker have done? Or is free speech just not that important to you? Way to let your community down.
David Frankovich, Toronto Ontario
06/03/10 6:46 PM EST
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Sexual freedom empowered because of censorship,sad
I'm extremely supportive of what Goodhandy's has accomplished in diverse trans and queer communities. As the radicals they are, I would have hoped they would be as supportive of other struggles for freedom. Now radical sexual politics are pitted *against* radical international politics. Which basically amounts to promoting one liberation agenda which is rising in visibility at the expense of another, less popular one. The exact opposite of what I would have hoped to see. Mr Klinck and Ms Goodhandy could have easily made it in as grand marshalls for 2011. I would have loved to have heard they would have held out for the subsequent honour then. But regardless of this development, and as Goodhandy's mention hoping in their release, it is not too late for the QuAIA ban to be lifted. In my view, it is as imperative as ever that this happen before this year's festival begins.
Shawn Syms, Toronto ON
06/03/10 6:52 PM EST
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REALLY?????????????
"...Pride is a white-washed corporate event. This highlights that unique and radical queers are an important and integral part of our community." Are you both not part of a corporate entity known as Goodhandy's? Last time I looked there wasn't a Non-Profit or charity sign on your door!! You both don't appear to be black, asian or any other visible minority. This clearly has the look that this is about more about advancing your corporate success than really about Pride! I dn't think you view this as anything but FREE ADVERTISING....NOT FREE SPEECH or advancing Pride! BAD CHOICE PRIDE TORONTO! It's bad to worse!
Ryan DioGuardi, Toronto Ontario
06/03/10 6:58 PM EST
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Whoah.
"I think there’s still room for us to have a kick-ass Pride festival and have these discussions and debate without these folks destroying the organization.” Please clarify. By "these folks" do you mean QuAIA and by "the organization" do you mean Pride Toronto?
Shawn, Toronto ON
06/03/10 7:21 PM EST
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I agree with all of the above
This is pretty sad. You are NOT standing with the community. You're standing with your cash register.
J Roman, Toronto ON
06/03/10 7:23 PM EST
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Well, no more visits to Goodhandy's for me...
I suppose we shouldn't expect narcissism and self-promotion to take a back seat to community and free speech. ...Should we? "First they came for the human rights activists, and I did not speak out because I was not a human rights activist. Then they came for the sex activists, and..." http://j.mp/c5YU1n
Rick, London Ontario
06/03/10 7:25 PM EST
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it's easy when you don't have to give anything up
"I think there’s still room for us to have a kick-ass Pride festival and have these discussions and debate without these folks destroying the organization.” Wow. Because clearly, "these people" can't be queer, right? O.o You certainly don't support censorship when it comes to facebook (http://www.xtra.ca/public/National/Facebooks_antisex_censorship_needs_to_stop-7916.aspx), and it's anti-sex censorship, and dont think its possible to change things from within when it comes to that; but do think it's ok to accept Marshall status during this controversy? Way to pick and choose. It's hella easy to talk a streak about fighting censorship (and most things) when it doesn't mean you have to actually give anything up. Shame.
romham, vancovuer bc
06/03/10 7:37 PM EST
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Sorry but it is not a community decision
“But a jury of people gave us this honour – not Pride Toronto; the community – and we have been asked to represent this community.” No. Actually most of the community members asked to participate in the selection process quit out of frustration. So, no, you were not chosen by the community Todd but by an organization desperate for someone to legitimize their anti-community decisions.
Josh, Toronto Ontario
06/03/10 7:48 PM EST
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its why they were 2nd
I do have a lot of respect for these two and how they have made in Goodhandy's a space for those who weren't welcomed in other establishments. They have done much good in that regard and are probably the most sex positive bar in Toronto, granted I rarely go to any bars any more since my drinking days are far behind me but I've always been impressed with Goodhandy's. That said they are a business and in business for themselves first and foremost as any business is, their reaching out to certain groups is admirable but it only happens so long as they make money doing so, nothing wrong with that however the first place guy, Dr Li is a community organizer working for the benefit of others, his focus isn't on running a business but on helping the community. I think that more than anything explains why one would would turn it down while the other would accept it, Dr Li is much more community focused than Klink and Goodhandy who are more focused on themselves and their business so its not surprising Dr Li would stand with the community while Klink and Goodhandy don't. That said I do think they are deserving of the honour even if Dr Li is more honoured by the community at large for turning it down than they are for accepting it. I'm saddened that they didn't stand with the community in insisting on free expression for all but standing with the non-profit generating parts of the community isn't their thing. Lets face it many in the LGBT community are focused primarily on self indulgence and they are the perfect grand marshals to represent that aspect of ourselves. I was getting worried that they were going to make Gladstone grand marshal if everyone else turned it down, these folks are way more deserving of the honour than him even if they don't show the same focus on the community as the first choice for the honour did which would explain why they were the second choice in the first place. I think a congratulations is in order even if it is a qualified one.
Rich, Toronto Ontario
06/03/10 7:56 PM EST
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Pride is not just about fighting censorship
What irks me the most about the QuAIA issue is that it has completely overshadowed other issues that are, in my opinion, just as (if not more) important and crucial to our queer communities. Whatever happened to tackling homophobia in high schools? Or fighting for trans rights? Or addressing internalized homophobia in our community? Forget it. The people on this message board have decided to make censorship the "issue of the year" due to Pride Toronto's recent business decisions. And I agree - Pride Toronto sucks for what they did. However, wppointing Todd and Mandy as Grand Marshals provides an excellent opportunity to discuss what else needs to be addressed - in addition to censorship - at the festival. Todd, Mandy and Goodhandy's represents many things that are CRUCIAL to this parade - rights for trans people, rights for sex workers, pansexual freedom. The list goes on. On the QuAIA group protesting Pride Toronto's censorship, I say go "Go for it!" We get it – a scoopful of the community is upset. Now let's focus on other issues in our queer communities that are just as important. At least that would be progressive.
Karl, Toronto ON
06/03/10 8:08 PM EST
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MONEY IS ALL THEY WANT!!!!
Todd Klinck and Mandy Goodhandy do the right thing and change your mind and turn this down....if you really care like you say about the gay community you would decline.....This move by Pride Toronto is a slap in the face to us that took up the first march.....we fought for free speech and for gay right here in Canada and around the world....by accepting this role you have show to us that your main concern is money and free advertising for you and your bar....as you can see so far you are loosing customer and you are loosing people who and make a break a business in our community and if you knew anything about our community you know how fast they go out of business when the Gay Community see that the person or business is only out for themselves they loose big time in the long run......
DJ, Toronto Ontario
06/03/10 8:09 PM EST
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I for one congratulate Todd and Mandy...
...and I mean that sincerely. They are right, they were voted for in good faith by the community and would have made excellent first choices. It's unfortunate they're stepping in in this situation and they're making the best of it. Would I have been happy if they had said no out of principle? Probably, but I'm not sure it would have changed much. It's clear they don't support censorship and that they are radical, political, positive choices for the role. The community, not Pride Toronto, can be lauded for their presence. The only thing Todd said that rubbed me the wrong way was "I think there’s still room for us to have a kick-ass Pride festival and have these discussions and debate without these folks destroying the organization.” Unless by 'these folks' he means the Pride board and administration. In every other way, a heartfelt congratulations to you both. I'm sad I won't be there to see you, but I will be happier knowing that you are there representing the spirit of Pride the way it's meant to be.
David D., Toronto Ontario
06/03/10 8:16 PM EST
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QuAIA supporters cease to amaze
QuAIA supporters cease to amaze me. You put so much energy into your desire to march in favour of an independent Palestine controlled by Hamas and other Muslim homophobes and against gay-friendly Israel. In the process, you keep attacking gay people in Toronto, but say nothing against Hamas and other Muslim homophobes. Now, you are attacking Todd Klinck and Mandy Goodhandy and wishing misfortune on them. Why don't you attack Muslim homophobes in the Mideast, rather than gays and lesbians in Toronto?
Joe, Toronto Ontario
06/03/10 8:17 PM EST
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re: Shawn and romham
Shawn I overlooked that line "there’s still room for us to have a kick-ass Pride festival and have these discussions and debate without these folks destroying the organization" it is rather disturbing eh, at least if by "these folks" he means QuAIA instead of Pride Inc or city council. romham I had forgotten about Klink's stance against censorship when it was directed against his business interests, I guess that like many folks, unfortunately, he has no problem with censorship as long he isn't the one being censored. Most of the support for QuAIA's right to march and to express their point of view is from folks like myself who have no connection to QuAIA and who don't see the Israeli/Palestinian conflict as being central in their lives but who understand the importance of freedom of expression especially to the LGBT community and who want Pride to be reflective of such values. Personally the thought of Pride Inc censoring our own community members is shocking and offensive to me. I only partially blame Pride Inc, most of the blame belongs to Gladstone and his ilk who refused to acknowledge other's right to free speech and started a smear campaign against QuAIA based on lies and distortions, I still believe that Gladstone should be sued by QuAIA for defamation because of his video, Pride Inc only showed a weakness of character, Gladstone and his ilk displayed outright malice in their attacks. The proper and reasonable response to QuAIA was seen in the pro-Israel marchers last year and not in Gladstone's efforts to get Pride defunded.
Rich, Toronto Ontario
06/03/10 8:25 PM EST
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"These Folks"
To clarify, by "these folks", I meant the city councillors and those who put this ultimatum forward towards Pride Toronto. Thanks for requesting clarification, I can totally see how that could be misinterpreted upon first read.
Todd Klinck, Toronto Ontario
06/03/10 8:32 PM EST
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QuAIA was founded on censorship
Let's not forget that Queers Against Israeli Apartheid were founded on censorship and tried to close down the Gaza Strip Club night, a radical queer night at Buddies in Bad Times Theatre. See the fab magazine article at http://www.fabmagazine.com/features/343/gaza.html
Steve, Toronto Ont
06/03/10 8:38 PM EST
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re: Joe
I see the issue from a very different perspective, standing up for free speech is about protecting queer community members from attack from some within the community and from those outside it. You see it as attacking gay people in Toronto, I see it as defending gay people in Toronto from attack by the anti-QuAIA folks. I guess a person's view of this situation all depends which side of the fence you stand on. For most of us the situation in Israel/Palestine has nothing to do with the issue of free speech in Toronto since most of us aren't members of QuAIA even if we do support their free speech rights. Most of us would still be supporting free speech and would be just as upset if the tables were turned and it was the pro-Israeli policy side that was being censored. I can't speak for everyone against censorship of course but that's the sense I get from what I've read in other's posts anyways.
Rich, Toronto Ontario
06/03/10 8:40 PM EST
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@Joe
Joe have you been asleep for the pass 50 years....Gay Pride is a world movement and yes we do and have spoke out against Muslim homophobes...abuses in Africa and in many other places around the world...Gays around the world have taken many stands in the world ..... fighting for rights and free speech of gays every where....so maybe have some fact and know your gay history and then you will see why everyone is upset with this move and why we are upset that someone who depends on the community for their living would turn their back on that community...
DJ, Toronto Ontario
06/03/10 8:42 PM EST
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Your a Joke
"These Folks" To clarify, by "these folks", I meant the city councilors and those who put this ultimatum forward towards Pride Toronto. Thanks for requesting clarification, I can totally see how that could be misinterpreted upon first read. So then clarify why you are showing support for them and for Pride Toronto.....oh yeah I forgot them MONEY...your a joke Todd you and Mandy
DJ, Toronto Ontario
06/03/10 8:46 PM EST
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re; "These folks"
Thanks for the clarification Todd, I got to admit it took some courage to accept the position since you must have known the flak you were going to get for it. Personally I don't think Goodhandy's will suffer in the long run since you're not advocating censorship even if you're not taking a stand against it. Hopefully by the time Pride rolls around Pride Inc will have rescinded its censorship decision, like I said before I don't see them as the bad guys, just a group lacking the strength of conviction to do the right thing in spite of Gladstone's efforts to defund Pride and the homophobic Mamoliti who sensed his chance to attack queers under the cover of this issue. They are the ones who I blame for all of this mess not Pride Inc even if they should have fought for free speech for all.
Rich, Toronto Ontario
06/03/10 9:01 PM EST
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Sorry Rich
You said "I don't think Goodhandy's will suffer in the long run since you're not advocating censorship" but by going along with Pride Toronto they are advocating censorship..... If you know something is wrong and you go along with it you are advocating it....
DJ, Toronto Ontario
06/03/10 9:07 PM EST
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To: DJ
Hey DJ, rather than insult me, why don't you give me a link that backs up your assertion that QuAIA has spoken up against Hamas or other Muslim homophobes. Or, give me a link that shows that QuAIA has condemned Muslim countries that kill and persecute gays. And, I don't mean a link that states that "QuAIA opposes homophobia". I mean a link that shows QuAIA condemning a homophobic action of a Muslim country, Hamas or other Muslim homophobes. And, there's plenty to condemn. For example, see: http://pridetb.homestead.com/files/Iran_Hangs_Gay_Teens.jpg
Joe, Toronto Ontario
06/03/10 9:10 PM EST
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Joe Reading
If you can read which I am sure you can ....I was talking about Gay Right and how we have stood up against countries and governments around the world.... for Free Speech and for Gay Rights....So when we start blocking other to have their say they why should they listen to us Gays in the world if we are going to start having censorship......
DJ, Toronto Ontario
06/03/10 9:20 PM EST
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DJ, I'm still waiting
DJ, I'm still waiting for my link. During this whole debate, QuAIA and its supporters have repeatedly and consistently made personal attacks on the gay men and lesbians who oppose them. I have yet to see any evidence of QuAIA or its supporters directing that same level of condemnation towards Muslim countries that kill and persecute gays or on anti-gay actions by Hamas or other Muslim homophobes. So, since you have wished misfortune on Todd Klinck and Mandy Goodhandy, will you also now take a moment to say "I condemn the homophobic actions of Hamas" and "I condemn Muslim countries that kill and persecute gays." Since you are so quick to condemn gay people, will you also take a moment to condemn homophobes?
Joe, Toronto Ontario
06/03/10 9:35 PM EST
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Joe
First off Muslin would cut off a 4 year old boy arm for stealing food(and they have)..would stone a woman who would did not have sex with your husband(and they have)....where a man can kill his wife because he wants to(and they have)...they were willing to throw a teacher in prison for calling a bear Mohammed(and almost got away with it)....so this Group as you can see I have no respect for them and a lot in the world do not but we fight for a change and to make things better Second this group QuAIA is trying to make a difference in Palestine...This land have been in war longer then you and I can state...I have been to their meeting(have you) When a group tries to make a different in there home land we should not turn our back on them.... People have heard a lot about Hamas and so many other groups....War is war and there is not right side or wrong side in the view to those fighting it..... Britain said the IRA was evil....USA said Saddam was evil but they put him in power....you can never look at a group with one view only... when me and the others that took to the streets of Toronto for our first march here we stood the chance of jail and prison for our beliefs...and we fought again ALL censorship...you may not care for what you feel QuAIA may or might stand for but as a Canadian and I would assume a Gay Canadian too...that you would be sadden by any move to censorship by any means....
DJ, Toronto Ontario
06/03/10 10:08 PM EST
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Get Your Facts Straight Joe
You Stated "Since you are so quick to condemn gay people, will you also take a moment to condemn homophobes?" At this point you are so off base it is not even funny...Joe I have been arrested...beaten up....spat at ....fired .... for being gay so please don't you dare say I CONDEMN GAYS or CONDEMN HOMOPHOBES....I have taken more stands for gay rights that you have I am sure and been fighting for gay rights I can bet longer then you have be breathing....
DJ, Toronto Ontario
06/03/10 10:14 PM EST
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Congratz to Todd and Mandy!
I don't agree with censorship. But it seems the true culprit here is the City of Toronto, not Pride Toronto or their newly appointed Grand Marshals. I've had the honour of working with Todd and Mandy for the past two years as a third-party promoter. During this time, they've donated thousands of dollars to Queer Idol and have invested countless hours into this event (because they truly support the arts and our community). Kudos you them for their courage to stand up for what they believe in, dedication to our community and for shedding light on under-represented segments at Pride 2010.
R. Hamelmann, Toronto ON
06/03/10 10:18 PM EST
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Horray!
Thank you to Todd and Mandy for refusing to participate in that absurd charade of declining the grand marshal title. Todd and Mandy are perfect examples of people representing queer diversity, sexual freedom, and pride. Most of the above comments are hateful and unnecessary. Guess what, not every queer person in Toronto feels compelled to sacrifice their Pride all because of this drummed up censorship issue with QuAIA. Most of us just want to continue a good summer tradition. And most of us also never asked for our special weekend to turn into an Israel-Palestine affair. Thanks again Todd and Mandy for not joining the rest of the Debbie Downers.
Ryan, Toronto ON
06/03/10 11:13 PM EST
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As a trans woman of color
I just want to say as a trans woman who has visited Goodhandys, I do not believe it is really a company that speaks for me. I understand the importance of being sex positive and empowering sex workers, but every time I visited this club, I feel like everyone there treats me as a sex worker and see all trans women as sex workers, Goodhandys, in my opinion , is really not a place where me and some of my trans female friends feel like where we can be comfortable or empowering to socialize in. Finally, this club operates very much like a business, and even a pick up places for escorts, I do not really hold this organization at high esteem.
A transwoman, Toronto Ontario
06/04/10 12:38 AM EST
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Ryan... your reading of this is terrible
Did you not read them say they wanted to see QuAIA go into the march? That they were supportive? That they were all into civil disobedience? Did you read anything other than the headline? This explains so much.
Ta,, Toronto Ontario
06/04/10 2:20 AM EST
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WTF!
I've read this thread and I'm baffled. A small handful of loud pseudo-radicals are screaming "censorship" but are happy to censor, bully and insult anyone who disagrees with them. Freedom of speech is one thing... what ever happened to freedom of opinion? This is OUR parade folks. If we're going to showcase global issues... why not tackle the crap that's going down in Uganda??!!!
Chris, Toronto ON
06/04/10 8:30 AM EST
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Congratulations!
What a wonderful choice...reminding us of one of Pride's core messages - sexual diversity. I echo the comments of one reader who reminds us of all the children in rural Ontario who are getting bullied and all the LGBT people around the world getting systematically killed by their governments - I agree that our Pride should focus on these rather than peripheral issues in the middle east. I was also surprised to read about QuAIA own's formative act of censorship and none of the QuAIA supporters commented on that. Hmm? Congrats Todd and Mandy and congrats Pride on a great choice.
G. Palazar, Toronto Ontario
06/04/10 8:30 AM EST
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People will read anything into anything
The fact people are drawing connections between Goodhandy's message of sex-worker empowerment and the right to live sex shows and the fight against smalltown LGBT bullying boggles the mind. I support what Goodhandy's does, but come on... And mideast issues may be "peripheral" if you don't have family there -- but lots of queers do, damn it! And an informational picket is not censorship, so stop rewriting QuAIA's history, thank you very much.
S, Toronto ont
06/04/10 9:29 AM EST
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What a shame
The fact that anyone thinks that two business owners involved in the sex industry are role models for (or representative of) the GLBT community is shameful. Think of all the wonderful people who have contributed in positive ways to advancing equal rights, helping GLBT youth, giving their time to those in need, creating wonderful art, etc. How sad that a city as big and diverse as Toronto has to honour two people who run a dumpy live sex club that profits from the desperation of so many drug-addicted young guys.
Ben, Toronto Ontario
06/04/10 10:00 AM EST
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Well then...
I'm one queer Palestinian that has heard the message loud and clear. I am only welcome at Pride Toronto if I check my life, identity, experiences and politics at the door. Jasbir Puar hit the nail on the head: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jun/02/gay-lesbian-islamophobia
QueerPalestinian, Toronto Ontario
06/04/10 10:28 AM EST
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Chris says...
"This is OUR parade" - and explicitly invokes Uganda and, implicitly, QUAIA. So who falls under "OUR" then? Not anyone who possibly has a connection outside of the little town of Church & Wellesley, I suppose?
QueerPalestinian, Toronto ON
06/04/10 10:32 AM EST
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An empty car
I am firmly opposed the the censorship imposed by Pride Toronto as I am to all forms of censorship. The parade will go on, as it should, for the people who come out to enjoy it. It will be devoid of an activist presence and, sadly, most people won't notice. This issue has, and will continue, to divide this community. That is the legacy of this pride board who had the opportunity to call the City's bluff by saying fuck you and fuck your funding. I did not expect the grand marshall's car to be empty although I am surprised that these are the people filling it. As for you Ben, you are really ignorant of our history. Pride grew out of the bathhouse raids and had everything to do with the things your little white washed life abhors. Although I believe this car should have been left empty, it isn't and these two have the right to sit in it if they so choose. That is freedom too and equally valid. I like Tim's suggestion that Todd wears a QuAIA t-shirt because I think the QuAIA will be attacked when they march and his wearing such a shirt might help to keep the others safe. Todd, if you are reading these comments, I endorse that motion for that reason. Since you have accepted this "honour" then do your part to keep all the marchers safe.
Peter Bochove, Toronto Ontario
06/04/10 10:37 AM EST
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Lost Message
I think we have lost something all through this..... This has nothing really if you look at it to do with QuAIA it has more to do with being told what to do with our event..... Giorgio Mammoliti announce that he was going to City Hall to have funding pulled if Pride Toronto did not Ban QuAIA...It was a game of chicken and Pride Toronto blinked way before the vote was even done.... Now either way if you feel QuAIA has no right to be in the event or if you feel they should be in the event really does not matter...what matter more and is what is so scary a straight man Giorgio Mammoliti who does not care about gay rights or our community(voted against gay marriage and other gay rights) is telling us who can and can not be in our event.... Think about it if Pride Toronto would of said "you know what Giorgio Mammoliti fine we will cancel this years event and you Giorgio Mammoliti can explain why the City lost over one million visitors and why the City lost all that Revenue"....do you think he would still have any support.... Giorgio Mammoliti has not fought for any gay rights but he is sure as hell trying to take them away...and if we do not ban together as a community we will loose everything we have fought for all these years this is what truly is the bottom line of this whole thing...
DJ, Toronto Ontario
06/04/10 10:47 AM EST
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Shame
Frankly it should be embarrassing for Klinck to be the desperate choice of convenience, particularly when he claims to be against censorship. The true culprit is and remains Pride Toronto for being weak. They have allowed expedience to supplant priciple and hence betrayed our community. Shame!!
Jon, Toronto Ontario
06/04/10 11:10 AM EST
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Human Shield
Does Pride Toronto really think they can use Trans bodies as a human sheild from criticism from the community. This threatens to tear the community apart on a whole new level. Unbelieveable that Pride Toronto could make this worse. Resind the decision and do the right thing.
really, Toronto ON
06/04/10 1:25 PM EST
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Sell-outs
They can't be against censorship and accept this nomination. This was a business decision on their part, but it will backfire. I and many others will boycott Goodhandy's.
Jason, Toronto Ontario
06/04/10 2:10 PM EST
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Gutless!
Pride and censorship do not mix. The committee members who voted to impose censorship for the first time in Pride's glorious 30 year history should be ashamed, not proud. Sandilands et al have bowed to the pressure of the homophobic right, and seem to have absolutely no clue about what a dangerous precedent they have set. Once bullies like Mammoliti and Rob Ford know how easily our "community reps" can be made to cave, they will only up their demands next year. But by all means don't risk the corporate sponsors and the government money, eh PT? Resign!
Queers against censorship, Toronto Ontario
06/04/10 2:25 PM EST
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fight the real enemy
As disgusted as I am by this whole affair, let's make sure to keep the blame where it belongs -- George Mammoliti, Martin Gladstone and the Pride organizers -- and not take it out on Todd and Mandy. The reality is that *somebody* was eventually going to step in and accept the role of grand marshal regardless of what else was going on; if nothing else, at least it was somebody who is aware of the issues involved and is still willing to speak out. I can think of many possible grand marshals who'd have made me turn my back in protest as they passed; Todd's not one of them. Tracey Sandilands, however, has been a complete dud and probably needs to be fired.
Craig, Toronto Ontario
06/04/10 2:48 PM EST
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Cartoon Journalism
Why would Xtra begin this article with a cheap shot? ("They were bound to find somebody as they kept going down the list") Do its editors think we are so stupid we need them to help us arrive at a conclusion? Such cartoon journalism is childish. Grow up please; it's more fun to be an adult.
Cher The Love, LA California
06/04/10 3:01 PM EST
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Goodhandy's is not just a business
To suggest that Todd and Mandy are in this to strictly promote their business is absurd. Goodhandy's is not just a nightclub, but also a philosophy. The club has, for example, provided a safe space not only for trans people, but also for members of our communities who do not necessarily fit into the mainstream mould - like young, effeminate gay men who get called fags by other gay guys at other clubs. Or gays who are routinely shamed by other gays for enjoying sex. Goodhandy's also consistently gives back. Their annual "Where's The Love?" event, a fundraiser for the AIDS Committee of Toronto (ACT), is one example. Their involvement in the multiple sclerosis bike rally each year is another. Todd, Mandy and Goodhandy’s represents a philosophy that says that sexuality and gender exploration is OK, and acceptable - an ideology that I feel has been lost in our queer communities. I, for one, want to see their message communicated in this parade. Also keep in mind that Todd and Mandy have historically worked in unconventional, confusing, sometimes unpopular ways. They are visionaries, and are often years ahead of their time. Them accepting this position may not make sense to some now, but it will down the road. I strongly believe that.
Michael Pihach, freelance journalist, Toronto ON
06/04/10 3:39 PM EST
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FIGHT THE REAL ENEMY
priorities people...the real enemy is not Todd and Mandy! the real enemies at Pride Toronto are: MARK SINGH a dishonest, corrupt individual who awards top dollar event contracts to his partner's company creating a conflict of interest TRACEY SANDILANDS who accepts the board's mandate and who closes off when she should be opening up to the community. MARY ZONDANOS the arts and entertainment director who has no connection to the queer arts scene in Toronto and wants to make Toronto Pride into Coachella GENEVIEVE D'IORIO who as co-chair sets the direction of policies of the board. These folks (not council, not honorees or performers, not community groups) are responsible for the sorry position Pride Toronto is in. This organization is in freefall. it's time for toronto activists to PUT UP OR SHUT UP. We have a year to plan a better festival. No more meetings to discusss QuAIA or Blocko or Take Back the Dyke's grievances. We've ALL been grieved, so let's put paper to pen, get grants, fundraise, and PLAN SOMETHING FOR NEXT YEAR.
prince, Toronto ON
06/04/10 3:43 PM EST
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WTF
There is solidarity and there is the cash register. There is the fact that Pride will use the Trans community to divide the community. This is a shame and a tactic that hopefully will be backfire. All the trans people I respect and love will be avoiding Goodhandy's now as it's clear through this that they are out for the buck. Way to go folk, you had the perfect opportunity to say something to support the community you take so much credit for building...more like the community you take so much money from. You both should be ashamed of yourselves for this. I would love to know what the people who nominated you think. A very dark day for freedom of speech.
rick, rick ontario
06/04/10 5:32 PM EST
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Freedom of Speech is the thing
Todd and Mandy should be ashamed of themselves for turning their backs on freedom of expression. Shameful.
JOn, Toronto ON
06/04/10 6:41 PM EST
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re: Michael Pihach & prince
Both of you have very good points. I may have been a little harsh earlier in not recognizing what they have done to support the community even if they are not as community focused as the first place choice and they are definitely not the enemy in all of this. I never have bought into the notion that if you are not with us you are against us but that does seem to be the position of some, this is not a strike and Klink and Goodhandy are not scabs. They do represent a very important aspect of the LGBT community in Toronto and we should never under estimate the importance of maintaining a sex positive atmosphere that fights against the shame all too often experienced by those with divergent sexual expressions. I'm not a bar person and I've never been to Goodhandy's though I've heard lots about it and have been impressed with what I've heard and the more I hear the more I start to think it might be a place that would be good for me since I'm largely rediscovering my sexuality after a 20 year addiction to opiate pain killers that destroyed my sex drive during those 20 years, I'm going on 3 years clean now. Perhaps Goodhandy's does do more for the community in a way I hadn't really given it credit for before I was in this position. Anyways I do think Klink and Goodhandy are good choices for this honour, they represent a concept, positive sexual acceptance, that is very important to the LGBT community in Toronto even if they are more of a business than community activists they still do a lot of good. Plus I do believe they do support free expression even if they are accepting this honour. Even if Pride Inc doesn't reverse its decision in time for this years Pride I believe we now have the momentum being built to make the changes in Pride Inc so that future Prides will not censor anyone and be more responsive to the community and what makes Pride a special and unique event unlike any other in Toronto.
Rich, Toronto Ontario
06/04/10 8:24 PM EST
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'A Dark Day for Freedom of Speech' REALLY NOW?
Dear Everybody, it's OKAY to have yourself a merry old Pride. Enjoying this year's festival does not make you a bad person. Participating in this year's festival does not mean you support censorship or are against civil rights. Festival organizers are not our enemies. And the whole of Pride is greater than the sum of its parts. WE ARE NOT ENEMIES! If anyone is promoting the WRONG kind of values it is you idiots who are screaming Shame! and Fight! and Enemy! at particular people in our community. Pride is not an insitution of the state and their decision to censor the Anti-Israeli Apartheid movement is not the same as our basic civil liberties being taken away. Whether you support that movement or not, or whether you support their right to participate in Pride or not - your rights and freedoms are NOT being violated! Pride is still important to many of us and we should not be shamed or smeared by this publication or its readership for feeling that way. Stop over-reacting to everything. So many comments on here sound like they're coming from Glen Beck's leftist equivalent. Boo to that. The show must go on and Todd and Mandy have stepped in to make that happen. Enough with all the nasty remarks and fingerpointing with every tap of the keyboard. QueerPalestinian, your life and identity and experiences ARE welcome at Pride, stop being such a drama queen. This rage is so unnecessary. Jon accuses Todd and Mandy of turning their backs on the freedom of expression. Jon are they not ultimately expressing themselves freely by accepting this role? Do you have a problem with everybody who wishes to express himself/herself this Pride? Must everything relating to Pride be a statement on censorship or Palestian rights? Some of you are completely nucking futs and I don't appreciate you trying to ruin MY Pride just because of your own uncreative way of expressing yourself politically, intellectually, and every which way..
Ryan, Toronto ON
06/04/10 8:25 PM EST
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re: Ryan
Ryan censorship is a violation of our rights and freedoms, freedom of speech is not just the freedom to speak but to also hear so yes by censoring QuAIA we are all affected. Just because you embrace censorship of those you disagree with doesn't mean anyone else should. You don't have to agree with QuAIA to understand the importance of free expression to the LGBT community and how wrong is censorship. Pride isn't just about you, if you find people arguing for your right, and everyone else's right, to free speech then just ignore it instead of belittling those standing up for a cause that matters a great deal to many of us. This is the first time ever that Pride Inc has censored any of its participants so yes its fair to say it is a very big deal indeed. I get it, you don't care about rights whether it affects directly you directly or not but you should be grateful for those willing to stand up to protect your rights even if you don't care about them yourself. If everyone were like you and only cared about their own good time we wouldn't have any rights at all in this country, its those who stand up to injustice that have made this country what it is and who have made Pride what it is.
Rich, Toronto Ontario
06/04/10 9:31 PM EST
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Inclusion means more than you think
Will a new and inclusive Pride finally welcome supportive men (whose entire bodies are censored) to attend the Dyke March? (they already admit non-dyke female politicians). Will QuAIA extend their freedom of expression mantra to the organizers of "offensively named" Gaza Strip Club? I welcome a new and truly inclusive Pride regime in which we can all attend all events. Because if the sectarianism is going to continue, I think we should just give it up and go camping and the end of June instead.
Alex Girondescu, Brantford ON
06/04/10 10:07 PM EST
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food for thought
It's fascinating how so many "PC types" are reading between-the-lines and implying that Goodhandy and Klinck agreed to be Grand Marshal "for the money" and have "sold out". It's pretty clear there's a subtext of prejudice against sex-workers at play here ... after all, aren't all whores only in it for the money? Before you play the morally superior card, please make sure your own politics are in check. This kind of ignorance makes me sick to my stomach.
Chris, Toronto ON
06/04/10 11:30 PM EST
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Well...
that pretty much makes it real easy for me never to attend Goodhandys or any event they are associated with ever again.
charles, toronto on
06/05/10 9:40 AM EST
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ime for Todd and M to seriously re-consider
I suggest Todd and Mandy read thw well thought out release by Keith Cole and the statements of Dr Li, Jane Farrow and Michelle Walker and seriously re-consider their ill-advised decision to give Pride T credibility by allowing themselves to accept the "faux" tainted honour (this year) as Gran Marshall. Any other year it would be great to see radical sex activists like Todd and Mandy in this position (And many have thought it great anyway) this is not the time to accept very dubious honours. This is a time to fight censorship. Period. That is the only issue in Toronto (not QuAIA or anything else).
james dubro, toronto ontario
06/05/10 10:07 AM EST
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I thought high school was over
I haven't witnessed this much peer pressure and bullying since high school. If Todd and Mandy want to lead the Pride Parade, so be it. I'm sure they knew it would be an unpopular decision but putting sex workers front-and-centre at Pride is very important to them. And kudos to them for putting their values ahead of popularity. You might not agree with this choice, but please show them the respect they deserve!!!
CJ, Toronto on
06/05/10 10:37 AM EST
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QuAIA
The REAL opportunists here are Queers Against Israeli Apartheid. I COMPLETELY agree with their politics but their tactics frighten me. They've capitalized on the public outcry against censorship at Pride to further their own agenda. And god help anyone who disagrees with them.
James, Toronto ON
06/05/10 11:28 AM EST
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I'd Like to See
QuAIA try to march in the Santa Claus Parade and the St. Patrick's Day Parade and cry censorship when they aren't permitted. Not sure why these queers are determined to ruin Pride for the LGBT community in Toronto over a slanderous term like Israeli Apartheid. To call the banning of a discriminatory term censorship is illogical. Nobody is keeping this group from supporting Palestinians, only from using an inflammatory and anti-semitic term. Clearly QuAIA are only out to vilify Israel or else they'd change their name. It's shocking that Xtra and members of the community support the use of this denigrating and offensive term. The city of Toronto has anti-discrimination laws against hate speech, too bad Xtra supports it.
Piers, Toronto Ontario
06/05/10 12:30 PM EST
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Michael Pihach! It Is A Business!!!
I truly have to agree with a previous post of how sad a statement it is that two business owners that for lack of a better word operate a "brothel" for young, naive or desperate, neglected, drug addicted young boys and men are to represent that TOronto Gay Community!How can anyone think that two business owners involved in the sex industry are role models for, and ongoing representatives of the GLBT community is shameful. There are hundreds, if not thousands of amazing wonderful people who have contributed in positive ways with Casey House, ACT, PWA, Fife House, 519, and the list could go on. This only diminishes the significance of previous Parade Marshalls accomplishments and contributions. How sad that a city as big and diverse as Toronto has to honour two people who run a dumpy live sex club that profits of the from the desperation of so many drug-addicted young guys. They perpetuate the problem rather than offer a solution! As for Michael Pihach, freelance journalist isn't this one of your favorite hangouts for meeting those young guys? Didn't you work there? Where is your journalistic integrety and objectivity? It's hardly a philospohy when you operate a club whose success lies only in continuing to perpetuate and lure young men into the world of drugs, live sex shows and porn shoots. A visionary is not one who lures young men into prostituion, porn shoots, drugs and the perception of acceptance for live sex acts in public. MICHAEL HAVE SOME JOURNALISTIC INTEGRITY!
Ryan DioGuardi, Toronto Ontario
06/05/10 2:58 PM EST
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re: I'd Like to see
Piers QuAIA is not a hate group and the term Israeli apartheid is not hate speech. Hate speech is not speech that you hate, here is a link to the legal definition of hate speech, and hate crimes, in Canada http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/hatecrimes/ clearly nothing in that definition of hate speech applies to QuAIA, its name or anything they have ever said in their messaging. Just claiming that it is hate speech is not enough, even those who started all of this mess had to admit that QuAIA messaging wasn't hate speech, instead it was just speech that made them uncomfortable. Btw there is a big difference between the Pride parade and the Santa Claus parade or St Patrick's Day parade, for one Pride is inherently political and has also welcomed all LGBT groups to participate besides the other parades liklely wouldn't let any LGBT group march in it regardless of what they were about, look at the refusal in the US to allow Irish gays to march in the St Patrick's Day parades there. QuAIA is a queer group and as such the Pride parade is their place to march as opposed to those others with which they have no connection whatsoever.
Rich, Toronto Ontario
06/05/10 3:29 PM EST
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re: Michael Pihach! It Is A Business!!!
Ryan DioGuardi attitudes such as yours is why its so important for a place like Goodhandy's to exist. Shaming those with divergent sexualities such as sex workers does no one any good except to make those doing the shaming feel all high and mighty with themselves. There would still be sex workers even without Goodhandy's. Granted I've only known a few people who were sex workers, in a non-professional manner, but what struck me the most was just how average they were, I would never have guessed they were sex workers if they hadn't told me. The sex positive atmosphere and message of Goodhandy's is especially important in such a community as ours which is defined by our sexuality. Klink and Good handy have done much good in our community and they deserve to be honoured for doing so. I wish they had refused this honour but I see no reason to demonize them for not doing so especially not for what they've done in standing out as a sex positive business. Shame around divergent sexualities should be left in the closet.
Rich, Toronto Ontario
06/05/10 3:44 PM EST
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re: Michael Pihach! It Is A Business!!!
Ryan DioGuardi - you proved Michael Pihach's point exactly. There are an alarming number of people in the gay community who take pride in shaming those with divergent sexualities. Frankly, it’s embarrassing considering the queer community was founded by sexual deviants. Ryan, your attitude is a joke. People like you separate, divide and damage our communities. Goodhandy's is a place to get away from sexphobic, self-loathing people like yourself. ALSO - Do you haters on here honestly believe that Todd Klinck, a progressive, outspoken porn producer who has FOUGHT for freedom of expression his entire life, ACTUALLY supports censorship because of Pride Toronto's dumb decisions? That's like saying Jesus Christ supports suicide! C'mon people. You're smarter than that.
Cameron, Etobicoke ON
06/05/10 4:24 PM EST
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@Rich
I would agree with you entirely if this was not such a key issue. Some of us understand deeply that censorship=invisibility=back in the closet. Klink seems to agree and still accepted the honour. For the reason that you have stated (the plight of sex workers and their need of a voice) he should have understood what is at stake and turned it down. For that alone he bears some culpability in my eyes. Like Pride Toronto he seems to have chosen the expedient way. Unlike Pride Toronto he does not owe anybody any explanation.
JG, Toronto O.
06/05/10 4:47 PM EST
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Pride
I wonder how this will affect World Pride 2014...
Brad, Toronto ON
06/05/10 10:08 PM EST
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World Pride 2014
I assume that QuAIA, Xtra and the gay Left will want World Pride 2014 to be a much larger media opportunity for QuAIA supporters to hijack the gay rights agenda of World Pride and march against Israel in solidarity with homophobic Islamists who want us dead - while totally ignoring Muslim countries that kill and persecute gays. Those who oppose this travesty may want to adopt the tactics of QuAIA supporters on this thread (those QuAIA supporters apparently want to organize a boycott against the business of Todd Klinck and Mandy Goodhandy in order to cause economic hardship to them). In order to reduce the ability of the gay Left to continue to perpetrate their pro-Islamist affront to gay rights, ordinary gays may want to stop supporting and giving money to community organizations controlled by the gay Left and to ask politicians to stop funding those organizations. For example, Pink Triangle Press (the owners of Xtra) gets money from the Canada Magazine Fund of the Government of Canada and does not pay taxes. QuAIA leader Elle Flanders serves on the advisory board of Inside Out. QuAIA supporter El-Farouk Khaki serves on the board of EGALE. If you don't support the pro-QuAIA agenda of these people, then don't give money to their organizations.
Joe, Toronto Ontario
06/06/10 12:38 AM EST
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Thinking beyond the limited QuAIA mind
Congratulations to the new Grand Marshalls. It shows a very obvious bias that Xtra would lead the story with a quote from the QuAIA bigot, McKaskell. 1)In representative democracies, people can express their views to their elected officials, who do not have to, but will usually make decisions that reflect the majority of their constituents' wishes, because they do not want to alienate those from whom they need a mandate. 2) In capatalist societies, consumers can choose those products and services they wish for any reason they wish, that obviously includes associations that the producers of products maintain. 3) Pride costs money. That money comes almost exclusively from government grants and sponsors. 4)Sufficient numbers of people have told their legislators that they feel providing public funds to Pride if it includes the hate-group, QuAIA is inappropriate. This has happened in numbers sufficient to convince the legislators that it is in their own interests and it is public will that no public funds will be provided if the shrill QuAIA bigots are included in Pride. 5) Pride's major Sponsors do not want to be associated with an event that includes anti-Israel bigots and have told Pride that they will not support it if QuAIA is allowed to participate. 6) Leaving aside the issue of whether it is appropriate for a festival clebrating Gay Pride should be used as a forum by bigots to attack the only country in its region that protects Gay rights, Pride had to decide whether the event could proceed without municipal funding and major sponsorships. They decided they could not. 7) QuAIA LOST. Suck it up, babies. No amount of whining from sad, hysterical fringe bigots only interested in their own opinions is going to change that. QuAIA may be angry becasue they are powerless, impotent and marginalized. The Neo-Nazi movement probably feels the same way too. Marginalized is exactly what Neo-nazis and QuAIA should be as both belong in the ash-bin of humanity.
Harvey Chocolate Milk, Toronto Ontario
06/06/10 10:05 AM EST
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How
can one be "Queer" while at the same time censor non-hate speech? A: You can't. For the very, very straight "ally" in the form of Pride Toronto ED Traci Sandilands and her ilk of supporters(including the self-haters and cowardly), this basic and fundamental fact of "being Queer" would most definitely be beyond their capacity of understanding.
gavin, toronto on
06/06/10 11:22 AM EST
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I
will not attend Goodhandy's. I will not support Goodhandy's and I will stay away from any event that supports Goodhandy's or is sponsored by Goodhandy's.
jerry, toronto on
06/06/10 11:27 AM EST
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@Jerry
Go nuts man. Why not just avoid or boycott any and every person, place, or thing that does not follow the exact same route as you. Looks like you'd be more comfortable in a lemming society with no diversity of thought. Maybe it's time for you and your ilk to pack up and move out of Toronto.
Ryan, Toronto ON
06/06/10 11:36 AM EST
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Sick of QuAIA and Xtra's love affair with them
Mandy and Todd are decent, important people in our community. What a lot of people, including Xtra columnists, are doing in trying to tear them and Pride down over this issue is a disgrace. Every time I see it happen, it is more proof of what is being said about QuAIA being hateful jerks who care nothing about Pride or the community and only care about themselves.
Chantelle, Toronto Ontario
06/06/10 5:44 PM EST
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Chantelle: QuAIA's position?
Do you have a source for QuAIA's supposed position on this matter? I have not seen anything from QuAIA criticizing Todd and/or Mandy. It's important to check the facts, and have some sources, before advancing claims and drawing conclusions.
Rick, London Ontario
06/06/10 6:47 PM EST
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re: Chantelle
Interesting that you would say that QuAIA are "being hateful jerks who care nothing about Pride or the community and only care about themselves" since that's exactly how I would describe Gladstone and his ilk. They certainly are hateful, just look at the smear campaign of theirs against QuAIA and they don't care about Pride or the community only caring about themselves otherwise they wouldn't have been doing their best to shut down Pride or at least make it as small as possible by trying to get Pride defunded by both the city and the sponsors if anyone else was allowed to have a differing view on Israel than their own. Gladstone and the anti-QuAIA squad would rather see Pride fade away into nothingness than allow opinions about Israeli policy that are different than their own. QuAIA has never opposed having alternative views on Israeli policy in the Pride march, they have never tried to force Pride to censor anyone in the community, they have never tried to get Pride defunded so the community couldn't celebrate in a way it has become used to. Those dubious honours belong to Gladstone and his ilk alone.
Rich, Toronto Ontario
06/06/10 7:06 PM EST
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If you build it, they will come
QuAIA leaders don't have to make an official statement attacking Klinck and Goodhandy. QuAIA supporters will do it for them. Evidence: all the posts above attacking Klinck and Goodhandy in response to the "news bulletin" (with 3 updates) from Xtra. When QuAIA marches in the parade, its supporters show up. When QuAIA calls a press conference or a protest, its supporters show up. When Xtra publishes a story on someone who doesn't agree with QuAIA, QuAIA supporters make comments against their "opponent" online. As seen from the posts on Xtra.ca in recent weeks, QuAIA supporters are very emotional and committed on this matter.
Joe, Toronto Ontario
06/06/10 7:17 PM EST
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re: JG
JG I understand what you're saying and I do believe that censorship is the single biggest issue this year and going into the future. This issue may very well signal the end of Toronto Pride as we've known it yet Pride will continue in whatever forms so long as LGBT folks come together and stand up to be counted. I strongly reject the notion that if you're not with us then you're against us, that's the position of folks like GW Bush and Harper who's lately been defunding groups that do very important work because they disagree with Harper on some issues. We must not sink to their level. We know who are responsible for censorship at Pride and it is neither Klink nor Goodhandy. Yes I would have preferred it if they had refused the honour, that would have helped the anti-censorship side in my opinion yet they are not the problem even if they did accept it. There will be many different groups marching in this year's parade regardless of the censorship issue though granted I would love to see all or most of the groups pull out of the parade so its as small as possible in protest of the censorship but that's not going to happen, Pride is the highlight of the year for so many in our community who will want to march in spite of the damage being done to Pride by censoring it. QuAIA itself will be doing its best to march or to be present at the parade. I would encourage all of us anti-censorship types to show up and make our feelings known too in protest. Klink and Goodhandy accepting this honour makes them no more supportive of censorship than any other group who will be at the parade. Check out Klink's response added at the beginning of this article today, I for one do tend to trust them and believe they aren't supportive of censorship as they're encouraging QuAIA to march regardless. We have more than enough pro-censorship types to deal with, we don't need to get distracted by side issues like them accepting the honour.
Rich, Toronto Ontario
06/06/10 7:27 PM EST
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re: Joe
I'd venture to guess that most of the folks who are opposed to censoring QuAIA are less supportive of QuAIA per se than supportive of their right to free speech and as queers to participate in Pride. For most of us, I believe, it doesn't matter if QuAIA is wrong or right about Israeli policy, it only matters that they aren't a hate group and don't resort to hate speech so there is no legal reason to censor them. Even the city hasn't determined if they violate the city's anti-discrimination clause, only that they think they have based on hearing from Gladstone and his supporters. The Canadian Civil Liberties Association have examined the issue and determined that they haven't violated the city's anti-discrimination clause. However I do think many folks do get upset at the smear campaign being waged against QuAIA where they are called all sorts of nasty names and accused of all sorts of horrendous acts that simply aren't based in fact, I believe its human nature to defend those we see being attacked unfairly and so some resort to the level of the QuAIA side and return the name calling and suggest using the same sort of financial tactics that the anti-QuAIA side has used to their benefit. I don't think its helpful to sink to such levels but I understand people's frustration and anger that leads them to it, I've done it myself, but if we're to put an end to censorship we have to get smarter and more organized about how we go about it.
Rich, Toronto Ontario
06/06/10 7:47 PM EST
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QAIA Sucks
QAIA sucks for bringing Mideast venom to Toronto's Pride celebration. When the City of Toronto shuts your ass down because your name is offensive, that's not censorship, it's ensuring the City doesn't fund or promote hate speech. Way to piss on the party Jew haters. That goes for you too, Xtra.
Soren, Toronto Ontario
06/06/10 8:08 PM EST
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knock it off with all the anti-sex worker nonsense
i've said my piece above, but please, folks, these conversations can and do happen without bringing in anti- sex worker sentiments. Sex workers can and do represent the queer community as proudly and effectively as anyone!
romham, vancouver bc
06/06/10 8:43 PM EST
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RE: Rich; It's Canadian?
I think after the whole "Anne Coulter" incident, Canadians have insisted that freedom of speech is less important than equal rights and respect for our differences. And I feel that many of the people on here abide by that sentiment by not wanting QuAIA to march. Although they march for rights in the Middle East, here they seem to be hating on a minority and should not be allowed to go about what they say. It's a bit ironic that what QuAIA says they want to do is viewed as the opposite here. Unless I'm misinterpreting everything...
Brad, Toronto ON
06/06/10 9:48 PM EST
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re: Brad
Brad I'm understanding what you mean in your post, please explain, particularly the part "Although they march for rights in the Middle East, here they seem to be hating on a minority and should not be allowed to go about what they say. It's a bit ironic that what QuAIA says they want to do is viewed as the opposite here. Unless I'm misinterpreting everything..." I honestly don't get the point you're trying to make, maybe more details and examples would help. QuAIA is not a hate group nor have they ever used hate speech, there has been a smear campaign against them full of lies and distortions about them and what they stand for. I sort of get the idea you're basing things on what you've heard form the smear campaign instead of reality but then again I'm not really sure what you mean. You'll find lots of answers about QuAIA here, especially in the faq section http://queersagainstapartheid.org/
Rich, Toronto Ontario
06/06/10 11:30 PM EST
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A Grenade to a Parade
Why is it obvious to everyone but the gay community that this fringe group wants to bring a grenade to a parade. QuAIA's determination to ruin Toronto Pride over it's intentionally provocative name is astounding. That they've hoodwinked the gay community into thinking they're being censored instead of censured is shocking.
Grant, Toronto ON
06/06/10 11:59 PM EST
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To Rich
Thank you for directing me to Klinck's recent well crafted letter. It seems that his decision to accept the honour is more nuanced that I had anticipated. I too find offensive the theocon doctrine of "you are either with us or against us" and my criticism was never meant as a rejection of what Klinck represents. I like that he owns up to making a business decision by seeking publicity while denouncing Pride Toronto for their stance. His rationalization is contraddictory, but honest. He represents a too often vilified segment of our community, and as such his voice deserved honour without controversy. This is a minor issue however and, you are right, we do have bigger fish to fry. Cheers.
JG, Toronto O
06/07/10 1:03 AM EST
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Grant's misplaced blame
QuAIA was going ahead with a tradition that has existed in Pride since I came out 12 years ago and from what I hear from way before. No one banned the groups against what was happenning ni Darfur, or against South African Apartheid. Kyle Rae, it seems, never had any problem with that. Then along came Martin Gladstone and the pro-Israel establishment and basically battered Pride and the board, with a very complacent Sandilands who hasn't still figured out who made her job possible, and we have this crisis. Gladstone is not the only one, many of the commentators here, have noted that they would rather have no gay celebrations than gay celebrations that include QuAIA. So, let's be fair here, Gladstone et al are the only ones to blame for dividing our community and they were happy enough to destroy our pride if that served their interestes. I wouldn't be surprised if this has earned Gladstone a few extra friends in the right places. His loyalties are not with the queer community at all. QuAIA is not only grassroots queer, some of the people there have been fighting openly for OUR rights for years if not decades. How dare he call himself a gay activist? It is an insult to all gay activists. You know, those people who fought for our rights, who made Pride, who united us, who built institutions for gay kinds and seniors. Those were gay activists. Martin Gladstone isn't a gay activist and all the havoc he has wrecked says he isn't going to be remembered as anyone who did anything for our community but divide it. He can write all the letters he wants, we all know it was he who blackmailed our board.
Tam, Toronto Ontario
06/07/10 8:45 AM EST
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Correction
In a previous post I said the parade would be devoid of an activist presence and that was an error. Both Todd and Mandy are activists. I did not mean my remark to take away from what they have done and what I hope they will do in the future. They were runners up for the grand marshalls car because of that activism. That's legitimate as is their decision to accept. It does not agree with my personal view of this issue, censorship trumps everything else, but I have no more right to tell Todd and Mandy that they must decline this offer than pride Toronto has to ban two words from all their events. I wish them well on pride day.
Peter Bochove, Toronto Ontario
06/07/10 9:24 AM EST
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Gladstone obviously IS an Activist
How can anyone say Gladstone isn't an activist? An activist is someone who is active in their community to promote change. Gladstone was able to mobilize people to defeat the odious QuAIA. Activist isn't a term that is reserved only for Marxists. based on what he accomplished, he is obviously a much more successful activist than anyone in QuAIA.
Johnny, Toronto Ontario
06/07/10 2:45 PM EST
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Gallstone
If the change he meant to promote was funding for Pride (getting rid of it), then I guess Gallstone is an activist.
Easy Peasy, Toronto on
06/07/10 3:06 PM EST
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No Johnny
Gladstone didn't defeat the QuAIA. Until his intervention they were a group most gays had never heard of. Now they have so much coverage they could have marched in 1,000 parades and never come close to getting this much attention for them and for what they believe. If I were a supporter of QuAIA, and I am not, I would be sending that son of a bitch a case of champagne. That doesn't make Gladstone an activist, that makes him just another asshole who doesn't like free speech. And he did it with a doctored video. Nothing here to be proud of.
Peter Bochove, Toronto Ontario
06/08/10 8:39 AM EST
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NEVER SEEN
Just as a FYI Pride Toronto never watch the film by Gladstone....nor did the city of Toronto nor did a lot of others....This move was brought on but a few who were out to make more of a name for themselves....I hold no ill will toward Goodhandy's I would of rather they had said to Pride Toronto "Sorry I can not accept as WE will be marching with QuAIA....If Pride Toronto thinks there will not be support for QuAIA at the Parade and on the street then they do not know the Gay Community......You can arrest us you can pull us from the Parade but we will not leave without a fight......Who's Pride .....OUR PRIDE....we will join forces and take back our pride.....and to all the sponsors here is your lesson for of the day.... The Meaning of Sponsorship: To sponsor something is to support an event, activity, person, or organization financially or through the provision of products or services. A sponsor is the individual or group that provides the support, similar to a benefactor. Now no where in this meaning does it say to buy or to take ownership....if you wish to sponsor do so but do it without strings attach.....
DJ, Toronto Ontario
06/09/10 12:28 PM EST
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