Conservative MP links trans people and sexual predators
NATIONAL NEWS / Bathroom issues raised during second reading debate for Bill C-279
Andrea Houston / National / Friday, April 06, 2012
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On April 5, during the second reading debate for trans rights Bill C-279 in the House of Commons, Conservative MP Dean Allison said the bill would give “special rights” to “sexual predators” caught lurking in women's washrooms.

NDP MP Randall Garrison, who submitted the bill, blasted Allison’s comments as “a throwback to some other decade.”

Allison, who did not reply to Xtra’s request for comment, said the bill should not pass because there is still a societal concern that transgender people are a risk to the public.

If passed, Garrison's private member's bill would add gender identity and gender expression to the list of statuses protected under the Canadian Human Rights Act and would amend the Criminal Code to include anti-transgender violence, assault and harassment.
Conservative MP Dean Allison argues against extending human rights to trans people.
(Screencap)


This is not the first time Conservatives have tried to link the bill with “bathrooms” and pedophilia. Its predecessor, Bill C-389, received negative media attention after it was dubbed “the bathroom bill” by evangelical lobbyist Charles McVety.

The bill would give transitioning women “access to girls' bathrooms,” Allison declared in the House of Commons. “As the bill would also give special rights to those who simply consider themselves to be transgendered, the door would be open to sexual predators having a legal defence to charges of being caught in a women's washroom or locker room.

“As sexual predators are statistically almost always men, imagine the trauma that a young girl would face, going into a washroom or a changeroom at a public pool and finding a man there,” he warned.

The Trans Lobby Group's Christin Milloy, who was watching and tweeting the debate from Toronto, says she was offended and disturbed by Allison’s comments, which she says perpetuate a myth about trans people that is intentionally frightening and misleading. “What the Conservatives are doing is fear-mongering. They are playing to the stereotype that trans people are just men disguised as women. This is damaging and this is harmful.”

Garrison says not all Conservative MPs feel that way. “That’s at the core of the old Reform Party attitude that I think is a significant part of the Conservative caucus, but there are others who don’t share those views.” He says there are 65 sitting members who voted against same-sex marriage. “That gives you an idea.”

Garrison says he is more interested in comments from Conservative MP Kerry-Lynne Findlay, parliamentary secretary to the minister of justice, who says the terms “gender identity” and “gender expression” require a definition.

Findlay said the proposed changes “as drafted” are “simply not necessary,” because the Canadian Human Rights Act already prohibits discrimination on the grounds of sex. “There are already the necessary legal protections in place to protect transsexuals,” she said.

Findlay said the terms would add “vagueness” to the law: “I am particularly concerned with the unclear term ‘gender expression’ . . . What new discrimination claims will be brought before the commission and the tribunal?”
NDP MP Randall Garrison submitted Bill C-279, which would add gender identity and gener expression to the Canadian Human Rights Act and Criminal Code.
(Screencap)


“How can we ask tribunals and courts to apply something that we as legislators do not clearly understand? The fact that we have no idea how tribunals and courts would interpret these terms is also an issue we should consider,” Findlay added.

Garrison, who plans to meet with Findlay as soon as possible, says she opened the door for a possible amendment to the bill — definitions for the terms “gender identity” and “gender expression.”

“She wants definitions,” Garrison says. “There are some good arguments to not include definitions. Nowhere in the legislation do we define sex or race. But I’m still willing to talk to her about it, if that’s what it takes to get the bill to committee.”

Garrison says retired MP Bill Siksay, who championed the original trans right bill, did not support providing definitions for the terms. “Are we going to write definitions for all things listed? I don’t think so.”

Milloy is open to adding definitions. “I don’t think it would be harmful to add definitions, but I don’t think it’s entirely necessary. I would prefer the definitions be left up to jurisprudence. The primary purpose of the bill is to establish that it’s not acceptable to discriminate based on gender identity.”

The most important thing now, Garrison says, is for groups and individuals that support the bill to contact their MPs and let them know, preferrably in person.

The bill returns to the House for a second debate and vote in about six weeks. 
 
See Conservative MP Dean Allison's comments: 


See NDP MP Randall Garrison's speech:


See Conservative MP Kerry-Lynne Findlay's response:




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Reader Comments


 
Bathroom argument as sexism
The NDP's answer to this argument: "The washroom prowler argument, which is often used by those who oppose rights for trans persons, is a perfect example of the disaster scenario we were talking about earlier. A trans person is portrayed as the man disguised as a woman, wandering from washroom to washroom to harass, attack or assault girls and women. That rhetoric does not reflect other trans realities, like the realities of the men who are part of our communities. If we apply disaster scenario logic, a trans man is a woman disguised as a man who wanders around in washrooms to harass, attack or assault boys and men. As we can see, these statements are enormously sexist, since they portray the man as a sexual predator prepared to do anything, even “disguise himself as a woman”, to satisfy his urges, while the example of “the woman prepared to disguise herself as a man” does not exist. What is bizarre is that a completely false portrayal of transsexualism is used to spread this blatant and shameless sexism."
Julien, Ottawa Ontario
04/07/12 2:07 PM EST
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Public washrooms
To me, a public washroom is just a place where you go in, quickly use the facilities, and then leave. If there is ever anyone in a public washroom who I find disturbing or threatening (e.g., a mentally ill street person in the midst of a rant), I will simply leave. I assume that most cis women are easily able to recognize male-to-female transgendered persons. I also assume that if a cis woman feels uncomfortable about the presence of a MTF transgendered person in a women's washroom, she will simply leave the washroom. Isn't that the way things work?
Shawn, Toronto ON
04/07/12 6:01 PM EST
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How badly do you have use the facilities
You can't always leave quickly and, in any case, why should you? I usually just use the facilities and do not conduct surveys on my fellow citizens who are also by coincidence in those facilties with me. I don't think comparing transsexuals to ranting individuals is helpful either.
Dianna K. Goneau Inkster, Kingston Ontario
04/07/12 7:33 PM EST
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Family bathrooms the solution
The concern might not be about trans people at all but about any kind of man in a woman's washroom. There are many stories of children being assaulted in bathrooms - not by trans people but by men in general. It would be difficult to assess the motives of any "male" appearing person in a female bathroom. Frankly, it would be a good idea for trans people to work with family organizations to lobby for "family" bathrooms without stalls where only one person (or parent with child) enters at a time. Family bathrooms would serve many people - handicapped with an opposite sex attendant, dads with girls, moms with boys, kids in general, and trans people (who themselves worry about being abused in a group bathroom area).
woka, woka woka
04/07/12 11:06 PM EST
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Bathrooms
Of course, in the more than 100 jurisdictions where there is legal protection based on gender identity or expression, there hasn't been a single case ever of these protections being used to defend someone against charges for inappropriate behaviour. The bathroom predator hiding behind gender identity protection is a fantasy, one that conveniently masks the fact that it is overwhelmingly trans people who are the ones with reason to fear public washrooms, where they are routinely harassed, assaulted, and otherwise interfered with.
Ace, Montreal QC
04/07/12 11:19 PM EST
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Family Bathrooms the Solution
Even more reason for trans people to advocate for family bathrooms - self preservation.
woka, woka woka
04/07/12 11:28 PM EST
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Stories of assaults in bathrooms
http://www.examiner.com/child-abuse-prevention-in-colorado-springs/pueblo-boy-assaulted-albertsons-bathroom-public-safety-tips http://www.examiner.com/gifted-children-in-baltimore/student-allegedly-sexually-assault-bathroom-at-arundel-high http://www.cafemom.com/answers/934402/Children_Being_Assaulted_in_Public_Bathrooms http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-moreno-valley-mall-restroom-sex-assault,0,7482030.story
woka, woka woka
04/08/12 6:24 AM EST
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@ woka
What was the point of linking to cases of cissexual predators committing assaults in washrooms? It's completely irrelevant, and if you can't see that, you're not worth the paper your comments are printed on.
S, on the road western Canada
04/08/12 6:43 AM EST
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Not Irrelevant
It's not irrelevant. Men in bathrooms are committing assaults on women and children. The public is concerned that a man - any man - can claim a right to enter a female bathroom or that when people / guards/ staff see a man entering the "wrong" bathroom, they won't say anything or can't say anything for fear of being called "transphobic." As a result, assaults will go up in number. I think that's a valid concern. As I've mentioned before, trans people would get more sympathy if they worked to make "family" bathrooms a requirement instead of hushing up the topic.
woka, woka woka
04/08/12 9:50 AM EST
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@Shawn
It's not always that easy to recognize a Mtf, but then again, why should anyone look? She is a woman just like you, and not looking for attention. Same when I am in a men's (As ftm) We just wish to live our lives. Just Making a point, sorry if I insulted you. I do agree with you, though. Most of us truly aren't harmful though. we are just people .
Max, Kingston Ontario
04/08/12 10:11 AM EST
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woka, your hate is showing
Geez Woka, did you just get tired of bashing Muslims and calling them terrorists, so now you're going after trans people? You've posted a bunch of stories about cis MEN entering various washrooms and hurting someone, and then you try to blame that on trans people and specifically kick trans women out of our own washroom? Even though trans women are actually the ones who are most likely to be assaulted in the washroom in the first place! I guess at least your MO is clear... pick X demographic you don't like, blame them for some shit they aren't responsible for, then use that to try and deny them the rights and privileges you covet all for yourself. I guess we're lucky that you turned out to be a lesbian... or else you would probably be going after queer women, calling them names too! Xenophobic, bigoted asshole.
Savannah, Toronto ON
04/08/12 12:37 PM EST
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Stirring the pot?
Savannah, I think woka is just stirring the pot on trans issues because many trans activists have repeatedly and publicly taken positions in support of QuAIA. This has been noted in various blogs. For example, see: http://eyecrazy.blogspot.ca/2011/07/al-qaaia-takes-new-name-and-suicide.html
Alex, Toronto ON
04/08/12 1:34 PM EST
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Conservatives Argument is Disingenuous
Trans people come in all ages and they all need to be able to pee without having to risk their life and liberty every time they do it. And as for the bogeyman of "men in women's washrooms," we already have laws that cover this: trespassing, criminal harassment, and sexual assault. Being trans in a washroom is not a crime, and I'm tired of people behaving as if it is, or should be.
Margaret Robinson, Toronto Ontario
04/08/12 4:41 PM EST
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Ever seen one?
I don't know about you, but in almost 40 years of using the men's room, and almost a decade of using the women's, I have yet to come across anybody in either that is naked, considering any nakedness would be concealed within the stalls. Anybody who is acting inappropriately or needlessly loitering really stands out. As always with these bigoted arguments, the 'predators in bathrooms' scares are red herrings at best.
Talia M, Trenton Ontario
04/08/12 4:56 PM EST
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Why is this concern considered bigotry?
Why couldn't this proposed legislation be used as a defense by a person with a penis walking into a women's change room at a public pool, then exposing himself to young girls while "simply changing". "If it pleases the court, my client had every right to change in front of those girls in a public change room, as my client identifies as a woman... his erect penis not withstanding." Do I think there is an army of perverse trans-people out there waiting for this legislation to pass? No. Could I see this sort of legal argument being made before the courts in a case or two? Absolutely. I think sometimes people that have a personal stake in these sorts of issues, react based from a position of feeling personally attacked and accused, rather than seeing that this does indeed open a can of worms.
Agonistes, Vancouver BC
04/11/12 12:27 PM EST
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@Agonistes
That's like saying getting rid of sodomy laws will lead to men who've been charged with sexually assaulting other men to plead gayness as a defense. The idea that we should take potty panic seriously because there's a chance that a non-trans person might attempt this sort of harebrained stunt "in a case or two" is nothing short of ridiculous. Feel free to cite cases where this has actually happened if you reply- I've never seen one reported myself.
S, on the road, Western Canada
04/11/12 3:35 PM EST
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Think People, Think
@Agonistes. You realise that people born with transsexualism have been legally allowed to use bathrooms fitting their core gender for well over a decade now, right? So where are these so called claims? In the cases that whidiot (woka) posted have all been men going in the female bathroom, plain and simple.(BTW none claiming to be other wise) Not to mention that some male pedophiles also hang out in the male bathroom waiting for young boys (oops we forgot about those didn't we?) Yes boys get abused by men (and women) too. "Family bathrooms are the answer"? Sure you foot the bill for them ALL and I'm sure the cities around the country would be more then happy to create them for you to use. Most people I know born with transsexualism use the bathroom corresponding to their core gender. They don't feel the need to use a single stall unit any more then do my friends not born with transsexualism. And more so dumb is the fact that this bill is amending the federal human rights code. That means it only deals with FEDERAL institutions/organisations/companies/laws. Everything else falls under provincial or territory codes. That these politicians already know that when they toss around the bathroom fear mongering speaks about the fact that they know too many people are ignorant and not willing to do their own homework on everything. They'd be the same ones who believed that equal marriage would change their own (heterosexual) marriage in some way if it was going to be permitted. Funny, when that was happening we all spoke about how stupid that was. Or when they cried out against permitting people, who are gay, adopting children. Cause, they said, why would two men want to adopt a little boy or two women want to adopt a little girl unless............... Kind of different when you stop and look at it another way isn't it?
femme, TO On
04/11/12 4:12 PM EST
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As a transexual women
I do see the point and it is very controversial topic so mabey to keep predators from saying they are trans maybe a trans registry DR note or a GOV stamp on the drivers license OR ID for TRANSGENDER FOLK only. But one thing i do know a bill to protect transgender and transexuals from hate,murders,jobs,assault,bullying and rap or humiliation in public or private spaces is way over do as murders and 50%suiside rate is at a steady incline and most see suiside as a way out of this abuse.
Brittany, Ottawa on
04/11/12 4:20 PM EST
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red herring
Hi Brittany, thanks for your comment and I know you mean well but please understand that the sexual predator argument is entirely a red herring. It's just a scare tactic. Think about about it: if a cis woman at present goes into the restroom and takes off her clothes and touches people inappropriate ways, would that be defended by anyone on the basis, "Oh, it's okay, she's a woman in the women's room" ? Of course not! If any person goes into the women's washroom and does something inappropriate, that person should be kicked out or arrested no matter what their gender presentation might be... but they should be kicked out on the basis of something they did, not who they happen to be. The point of the bill, insofar as washrooms are concerned (and it's bigger than that one thing of course), is just to say that trans people use the washroom the same as cis people, without fear of harassment or violence. That's all.
Savannah, Toronto ON
04/12/12 6:28 PM EST
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Preventing Assaults is the Topic
Savannah, your argument doesn't actually say anything about **preventing** assaults by men in female bathrooms. I would expect any person who assaults another person in a bathroom to be arrested. It's security and women being able to prevent an assault that is in question. Family bathrooms would solve a multitude of problems for many in society.
woka, woka woka
04/15/12 9:21 PM EST
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Preventing Assaults - absolutely
Of course preventing assaults is the topic. Trans women are assaulted in washrooms on a fairly common basis. Legislation that affirms trans women and their rightful place in women's spaces will help to alleviate the problem. Meanwhile your endless attempts to conflate trans women with sexual predators will ultimately fail Woka because the rest of the world is not as consumed with hatred as you are.
Savannah, Toronto ON
04/15/12 10:59 PM EST
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