Another take on the 'trans rights' bill
RIGHTS / Does insisting on enumeration actually reduce trans peoples' civil rights?
Rob Salerno / National / Wednesday, February 22, 2012
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The trans community has made important legal, political and social advances in the past decade, perhaps best exemplified by the passage last year through the House of Commons of Bill C-389, which added gender identity and gender expression to Canada’s Human Rights Act and to the hate crime provisions of the Criminal Code -- even thought the bill eventually died when the election was called before it was debated in the Senate.
 
On Feb 21, Ontario NDP MPP Cheri DiNovo introduced a private member’s bill to add "gender identity" to the Ontario Human Rights Code. She’s introduced the bill three times before, only for the bill to die on the order paper for lack of support by the governing Liberals. She’s hopeful it’ll pass under the current minority government.
 
"To be a trans person means you are at high risk in society," she says. "We want to close any possible loophole. We want to keep our children safe."
 
But it’s unclear if the bill will actually help trans people. On the contrary, it seems the ongoing debate is doing more harm than good.
 
While Human Rights Commissioner Barbara Hall has been supportive of the measure, it’s also true that the Ontario Human Rights Commission already considers trans people to be protected under the existing human rights legislation on the ground of “sex.” The OHRC even has a page on its website that goes into extensive detail on the duties of employers and others to accommodate trans people.
 
To be clear: it is already illegal to discriminate against trans people in Ontario. In fact, no one has yet been able to point to a case where a trans person was turned away or received a negative judgment from the OHRC when they made a case of trans discrimination.
 
And even though Bill C-389 died last year, a spokesperson for the Canadian Human Rights Commission says that trans people can file federal complaints under the sex or sexual orientation sections of the Act. He also told me there is a plan to overhaul the commission’s website to correct erroneous and outdated information that suggests otherwise.
 
Even if the OHRC weren’t already reading “gender identity” into the category of sex, it could be argued that the necessary protections should already be there, because of the equal protection clause (section 15) of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
 
Here, it’s important to recognize the difference between the Canadian and American versions of civil rights. In the US, you have the right to discriminate against anyone unless the law specifically says you can’t. That’s why activists have been pushing a federal non-discrimination act for four decades, and to this day, Ellen could be fired from her job just for being a lesbian in 29 states.
 
 
In Canada, the Charter’s equal protection clause says we can't discriminate against anyone. The listed classes of discrimination in the Charter are given only as examples – “Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, sex, age or mental or physical disability.”
 
This is why in the Egan case in 1995, the Supreme Court was able to “read in” sexual orientation as a prohibited ground for discrimination even though it isn’t enumerated in the Charter. In the 1998 Vriend case, the Supreme Court read “sexual orientation” into the Alberta Human Rights, Citizenship and Multiculturalism Act, despite the fact that the legislature had specifically excluded it – excluding gay and lesbian people from human rights legislation was found to be discriminatory and hence unconstitutional.
 
So those rights should already exist for trans Canadians, even in jurisdictions where they’re not specifically enshrined in law or regulations.
 
Engaging in this debate about whether or not we should include trans people explicitly in the OHRC – even the language, calling it a “trans rights” bill that would “protect” trans people from discrimination – confuses the issue by making it sound like trans people don’t have those rights already.
 
It’s actually incredibly disempowering. Trans people don’t need the legislature to assert rights they already have, and insisting they do implies they don’t have rights otherwise. The discourse could have the impact of suppressing rights claims from trans people who erroneously believe they have no civil rights until the legislation passes.
 
Moreover, using the legislature to achieve these rights may actually expose trans people to greater long-term harm. If we concede the legislature has the power to establish these rights, then it would also have the power to take them away. A Hudak majority in the next election cycle could do more harm armed with the belief that rights spring from Queen’s Park rather than the Charter. Have we already forgotten that Hudak tried to turn trans people into the horrible bogeymen coming after your children in the dying days of the 2011 election?
 
And what of trans people in other jurisdictions? Are they best served by fighting individual battles in 11 legislatures, or is a nationwide assertion of already-held Charter rights the best way forward? Wouldn’t it be easier to assert that “gender identity” is covered by the various human rights codes’ inclusion of “gender” or “sex”?
 
Advocates for Toby’s Act rightly claim that trans people face incredible amounts of discrimination. But amending the Code won’t solve this, in the same way that including “race” has not ended racism. Conversely, the absence of a specific reference to sexual orientation in the Charter or Alberta’s HRCMA did not stop the general advance of gay and lesbian people’s social status since the 1990s.
 
So is the bill the best remedy for the discrimination trans people face? I would say no. Government can and should play a role here, by taking even more proactive steps to educate people about gender identity and their duties to accommodate trans people – reinforcing the rights that already exist. Government can also improve the lives of trans people by establishing better medical facilities and clinics for trans people throughout the province.
 
It’s true that passing Toby’s Act may achieve a symbolic victory for trans people. And while I don’t speak for trans people, I’d bet it’s more important to achieve substantive victories.
 

 


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Reader Comments


 
On the other hand...
During the 1970s, politicians frequently told gay activists that discrimination against gays and lesbians was already covered by "sex" in various pieces of human rights legislation. In the end, it was left to the courts to state the obvious, that "sex" did not include "sexual orientation". The argument that it did was nothing but a delaying tactic then, and the argument that trans people are protected under that term now is no different. Second, the language of the Charter does not and cannot forbid every form of discrimination. It does not, for example, require that everything should be free because price tags discriminate against the indigent. It is open-ended so that sources of discrimination newly identified by emerging political movements can be discouraged. It's tailor-made to accommodate the trans movement. Human rights laws don't put an end to discrimination; they grant state recognition to the listed sources of discrimination as social problems to be addressed.
Ken Popert, Toronto Ontario
02/23/12 10:42 AM EST
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Much Much More Than Symbolic Victory!!
Including ‘Gender Identity’ to the list of amended additions that define specifics on who is actually protected under the Ontario Human Rights Code will do much more than be just a symbolic victory. Maybe it would have been more diligent for you to research what the Trans community is actually asking! Most importantly Gender Identity has nothing to do with sexual orientation, it is about an individual’s specific gender identity!!!! This is a monumental aspect for those in the Trans community, has been voiced countless times and for some reason no one seems to get it, including you! This would be made very clear by adding ‘Gender Identity’ to the list of amendments already included with the Human Rights code. While it is true that everyone is protected under the Human Rights Code, amendments help define and give interpretation making it perfectly clear as to whom and how it pertains! The Trans community has suffered horrific discrimination for decades, many taking their own lives because of it, by not stating and recognizing ‘Gender Identity’ specifically in the Human Rights Code is the greatest insult the Trans community has ever faced!! This is why adding Gender Identity is most definitely needed and should be specifically included in our Human Rights Code!!
Davina Hader, Toronto ON
02/23/12 10:59 AM EST
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On The Other Hand...
Ken your point is very poignant and countless examples have well shown that better definition for ‘Gender Identity’ is so very much needed! Denigration by our government to a community that has long deserved better protection is more than just rhetoric it has cost lives. Our government needs to finally step up and simply include ‘Gender Identity’ in our Human Rights Code!
Davina Hader, Toronto ON
02/23/12 11:20 AM EST
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symbolism adds strength
with explicit protection in the codes (federally and provincially) it would be much tougher for health care systems to get away with discriminatory policies and procedures that inhibit the ability of trans people to access timely and affordable hormone treatments and surgeries. also, it would make it much tougher for governments to justify inacting legislation such as transport canada's gender-variant trans flight ban. what's even worse is that implying that sex= gender and that the government has a right to classify gender based on sex, opens risk for the erasure and elimination of trans issues. we need gender recognized as distinct from sex and we need a definition in there that clearly states that gender is a state of mind of the individual, and that nobody else can or should have legal rights to classify one's gender based on sex or any other identifiable trait. legislation might not change everything over night, but it has proven to be the most powerful tool in terms of moral suasion to society..
Jennifer McCreath, St. John's Newfoundland
02/23/12 11:41 AM EST
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[Editor's Note]
Not the politicians
Ken and Jennifer, my point is that it shouldn't be up to the politicians. In the 1970s, there wasn't a Charter to supersede the OHRC. Since 1985 (when s 15 took effect) the "most powerful tool in terms of moral suasion to society" has in fact been the courts, not the legislatures. The courts have led the legislatures on virtually all LGBT issues, including the Egan and Vriend cases that read sexual orientation into the relevant codes. Relying on politicians also means that we concede that politicians have the power to strip these rights away. It's no longer politicians who are saying that the codes cover trans people -- it's the commissions and judges themselves. Those are precedents that are hard to overturn, and indeed, no one can point to a single trans case with merit that's been turned away from the OHRC. The fact that trans people appear to be waiting for the legislature to take action before launching claims for better medical coverage or fair passport rules speaks to the damage this effort is causing. Rather than launch the case now under the presumed rights, some trans people are apparently putting up with discrimination that is already illegal until the legislature steps in.
Rob Salerno, Toronto ON
02/23/12 12:43 PM EST
Not the politicians...
Rob it should not require always asking the courts to step in and rule every time there is a breach of Human Rights to the Trans community as you have indicated! The fact that the Trans community’s ‘Human Rights’ are constantly violated is a perfect example of why this systemic change is so necessary! Politicians are elected to represent our communities and all who exist in them. It is their duty to support the will of the people, not disregard them!
Davina Hader, Toronto ON
02/23/12 1:50 PM EST
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Courts
Davina, that's what the courts *do*. It's what they're there for. Even with the changes proposed to the Code, trans people would still need to take cases to the commission or the courts for resolution. Discrimination doesn't end because the legislature says so. I agree systemic change is necessary, but the best way to accomplish that is to support the education work of the commissions and assert rights through the judicial process when necessary.
Rob Salerno, Toronto ON
02/23/12 1:55 PM EST
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Rob's Dilemma
The author Rob Salerno writes a poorly researched comment piece declaring the trans community's pursuit of explicit human rights protection as 'disempowering' while suggesting the pursuit of legal action in the courts as the recommended path to equity. Somewhere he has forgotten that his comment article suggests the pursuit of legal rights has been successful. Consequently, we have before us: Rob's Dilemma.
Susan Gapka, Toronto Ontario
02/23/12 5:23 PM EST
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Questions for Rob
Rob, for you to suggest that obtaining explicit legal protections for trans people might be disempowering is just kind of weird. But I have a question: was including explicit protections based on sexual identity 'disempowering' for gays and lesbians? If so, could you give a specific example of that or how that might work? More to the point, if you had the power to REMOVE those protections on the basis of sexual orientation, would you do so?
Savannah, Toronto ON
02/23/12 7:29 PM EST
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typo
In the first question I meant "sexual orientation," not "sexual identity," just to be certain.
Savannah, Toronto ON
02/23/12 7:32 PM EST
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Transsexuality, a primer for the GLB community pt1
You folks all apparently lack the correct understanding of true transsexuality. A true transsexual person as originally defined in 1923 by Dr Magnus Hirschfeld, who actually first coined the term, was a person who had the sexuality and general personality of a completely heterosexual person of the opposite of their own assigned gender (ie their transgender or transsex) and none of the sexuality and general personality of their own assigned gender. A true male transsexual is thus a biological male who has a completely female sexuality and personality and essentially shows a kind of psychological intersex condition in which their sexuality and personality are completely discordant from their body. True transsexuality is a sexual-orientation category which is closely related to homosexuality. Pure transsexuality is quite rare but about 10% of the gay and lesbian population are semi-transsexual with varying combinations of male and female sexuality and related personality traits which accounts for the intense diversity of sexuality among GLB people. About 1 boy per 1000 is naturally feminine or femme and about 1 girl per 2000 is naturally masculine or butch and most of these children evolve in adolescence into femme gay men or butch lesbian women but they always remain to some extent semi-transsexual with semi-transsexual gay men being quite different from non-gender-variant gay men. However about 3% to 5% of gender-variant children will evolve into fully transsexual adults or at least try to. True transsexuals suffer from intense gender confusion which is a sense of not knowing what gender they are supposed to be and gender dysphoria which is an inability to conform comfortably to the social roles prescribed for their assigned gender while being very comfortable in conforming to the social gender roles prescribed for their opposite gender.
Yours Truly, Toronto Ontario
02/23/12 7:49 PM EST
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Transsexuality, a primer for the GLB community pt2
True transsexuals also associate and socialize quite easily on a peer basis with people of their opposite gender and are easily accepted by the opposite gender as peers regardless of their actual appearance. Unfortunately adolescence and puberty are invariably complete disasters for true transsexuals and they have a major crash with biological and social realities resulting in severe chronic depression followed by repeated suicide attempts which are often eventually successful by the age of 18. They favourite form of adolescent transsexual suicide seems to be by hanging which is a slow and very painful form of strangulation although some children will jump out of windows in upper floors and others will use sleeping pills and other poisons. The true transsexuals who survive often appear to others as very feminine gay fairies while effeminate twinkies are more semi-transsexual. True transsexuals are always visibly gender-variant in terms of personality and behaviour with a history of gender-variance going back to late infancy and in adult life untransitioned transsexuals invariably get pegged as being gay or lesbian no matter how hard they might try to play straight. Dr H studied such people and realized that they were often 90+% feminine (or masculine) and had intense difficulty and psychic pain in conforming to their assigned gender and he conceived of gender transition and sex-change therapies as a way for these people to achieve much more psychic comfort.
Yours Truly, Toronto Ontario
02/23/12 7:51 PM EST
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Transsexuality, a primer for the GLB community pt3
Transsexuality, a primer for the GLB community pt3 Virtually all GLB people learn to compartmentalize with a straight compartment where they largely conform to the social roles of their assigned gender where they interact with the straight world and a GLB compartment where they can express and satisfy their homosexuality or bisexuality. True transsexuals are essentially ultra-homosexuals who will also try to cope by compartmentalizing but it is simply impossible for them to conform to the straight social roles of their assigned gender and they can act as straight only by actually changing gender and sex to their opposite gender. It is important to understand that true transexuality often does not correlate with cross-dressing behaviour and transsexuality is not a synonym for transvestite. You often cannot identify a true transsexual purely by the way they dress anymore than you can identify a less gender-variant homosexual by the way they dress. There is no stereotypical transsexual uniform just as there is no stereotypical homosexual uniform.
Yours Truly, Toronto Ontario
02/23/12 8:05 PM EST
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Transsexuality, a primer for the GLB community pt4
Unfortunately in the 1950s and 1960s the word transsexual was stolen from the GLB community by delusional transvestites at a time when GLB people were severely criminalized and intensely oppressed and unable to defend themselves from any kind of homophobia under the leadership of Dr Harry Benjamin, a highly homophobic American physician, who provided hormone therapy to heterosexual men who wanted to assume a female appearance for their own pleasure. These guys craved hormonal therapy to feminize their appearance and before the Internet only a doctor’s prescription could get those hormones so they would claim to be transsexual in much the same way as a person with indigestion might falsely claim to actually be having a heart attack to increase their priority for prompt medical treatment. Sex is like a narcotic for most men, both straight and gay, and some heterosexual guys are wired in a way that allows them to satisfy their male heterosexuality by assuming a nominally feminine appearance by way of crossdressing and essentially becoming their own virtual girlfriend. The correct terms for this condition are actually autogynephilia or autosexual transvestism. Essentially for this type of guy crossdressing is like the sexual equivalent of methadone and they can become very addicted to it and will try to legitimize it and rationalize it in various ways by claiming to be transsexual or transgendered and claiming to be a woman trapped in the body of a man. Many of these autosexual transvestites are often asexual which is to say that they are heterosexual men who suffer from partial or complete heterosexual autism and are unable to satisfy their male heterosexuality by consorting with natural women so they resort to crossdressing behaviour to invent a virtual girlfriend of their own who can satisfy their male heterosexuality.
Yours Truly, Toronto Ontario
02/23/12 8:07 PM EST
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Transsexuality, a primer for the GLB community pt5
Dr Benjamin attempted to redefine and corrupt the word transsexual by redefining it as a condition where one believes that one is trapped in a body of the wrong gender and attempted to promote the idea of female gender identity completely divorced from female sexuality. This is actually an absurd idea and an expression of delusionality and mental illness since you cannot have female gender identity without at least some elements of female sexuality. It is like trying to say that you can have a face without a head. The two might be different concepts but they are always closely linked and one cannot exist without the other. Autosexual transvestism is purely a male phenomenon and autosexual transvestites will keep their sexual interest in women even after hormone therapy and even sex-change surgery and will play a cute semantic trick and call themselves lesbian transwomen. However most actual lesbian women reject such lesbian transwomen because they really are still heterosexual men in female clothing in terms of personality. Transsexuality and heterosexuality are mutually incompatible by definition and no true transsexual will ever actually show any sexual interest in women nor ever call themselves a lesbian transwoman. Autosexual male transvestites are intensely focused on crossdressing and body image but have no history of childhood gender-variant behaviour and have very typical normal previous male lives with no interest in the actual substance of women’s lives unlike femme gay males and male transsexuals who usually have acquired a full set of basic feminine life-skills by the end of adolescence and are well qualified to successfully change gender. They are essentially addicted to crossdressing and will show withdrawal symptoms much like any addict when denied the opportunity to crossdress.
Yours Truly, Toronto Ontario
02/23/12 8:09 PM EST
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Transsexuality, a primer for the GLB community pt6
They also will become quite delusional in trying to rationalize and legitimize this interest and claim to be transsexual or sometimes even intersexual and will claim to be a woman trapped in the body of a man despite the lack of any corroborating feminine behaviour patterns. They are essentially mentally disordered to some extent and often show a lot of emotional disturbance and are basically mentally ill. Autosexual transvestites (aka pseudo-transsexuals) are also generally very homophobic and do not like socializing with gay and bisexual men unlike true transsexuals (aka gay transsexual) who are essentially ultragay and socialize quite easily with gay and bisexual men although they much prefer to relate to gay and bi men in a womanly way. Gay men generally find true transsexuals to be much too femme for their liking but mildly bisexual straight guys often become quite interested in true transsexuals and will hit on them quite aggressively. Think of Renato and Albin in the play “La Cage aux Folles”. They were presented as a gay same-sex couple but Albin is technically a true transsexual in clinical terms while Renato is a mildly bisexual straight guy. Same-sex couples tend to be stable only when at least one of the partners is at least semi-transsexual. George Smitherman was well known for carousing with his gay buddies but could never settle down until he found a moderately femme partner with wifely qualities.
Yours Truly, Toronto Ontario
02/23/12 8:10 PM EST
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Transsexuality, a primer for the GLB community pt7
Autosexual transvestites are also extremely oppressive to true transsexuals and will bully them mercilessly when given the chance and have been known to drive true transsexuals to suicide with this type of bullying. They never suffer from chronic depression and suicidality and are usually very dismissive and disdainful of the gender dysphoria suffered by true transsexuals. The GLB community has let itself be taken in by a big con job by these highly homophobic heterosexual transvestites. They will attempt to assume the appearance of women despite having a complete lack of basic feminine life skills and of course they get into trouble by doing so since they become so quirky and gender-variant. They will try to then cope with these problems by taking refuge in the gay community which tends to be quite tolerant of quirky people but they will become very unwelcome guests by making constant extreme demands on their hosts for a grossly disproportionate share of GLB community resources while never ever giving anything back and they will constantly express their intense homophobia by always complaining about the shortcomings of GLB people in general. This is a bit like a white racist taking refuge in a black community but then biting the hand that feeds him by constantly attacking and criticizing his overly generous hosts.
Yours Truly, Toronto Ontario
02/23/12 8:11 PM EST
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Transsexuality, a primer for the GLB community pt8
The GLB community needs to understand that heterosexual transvestites do not really belong in the GLB community and to start formally disowning them and excluding them. True transsexuals are quite happy to be a sub-category in the larger category of homosexuality and really do not need their own T category (as in LGBT). Gay publications should make a point of replacing acronyms such as LTBTQetc with a simple GLB and should restrict their coverage to people with non-straight sexual orientations and ignore the heterosexual transvestites with their strange claims of female gender identity without female sexuality. The words transgender and trans should also be banned because the transvestites use these words to oppress true transsexuals and deny the reality of transsexuality as something closely related to homosexuality. Autosexual transvestites have very imperialistic attitudes and true transsexuality is essentially a little border county in the GLB federation which long ago was invaded and forcibly annexed by the Transvestite Empire as a highly oppressed subject province but it is time for the GLB community to reclaim this little part of its community by expelling its autogynephilic oppressors and reintegrate it back into the GLB mainstream. Everything which is good for GLB people is also good for true transsexuals and everything which is bad for GLB people is also bad for true transsexuals and we need to think of true transsexuals as being also ultra-homosexual.
Yours Truly, Toronto Ontario
02/23/12 8:13 PM EST
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Transsexuality, a primer for the GLB community pt9
The GLB community should also stop wasting its scarce political capital on absurd political causes such as so-called trans rights in the form of inherently silly proposals such as Bill C-389 and its successors and Toby’s bill. Bill C-389 is really an attempt by heterosexual male crossdressers to claim the privileges of being female without giving up their precious male jewellery and all the associated male power and privilege and without incurring the disabilities of being female while losing the disadvantages of being male by creating all sorts of intermediate gender classifications. Toby’s bill is a rather useless bit of window-dressing meant to be a memorial to Ms Dinovo’s tranny friend who was actually an emotionally disturbed and mentally ill delusional guy who claimed to be transsexual in much the same way as other similarly afflicted people will claim to be Elvis Presley and so on. The Toby bill would not have helped her friend because he really needed proper psychiatric care and it is rather useless and even hurtful to true transsexuals. Both these bills actually are highly oppressive to true transsexuals and to natural women because they entrench into law a very incorrect definition of transsexuality based on a self-asserted claim of abstract female gender identity completely divorced from female sexuality and which is actually based purely on choice of clothing. In essence these two silly bills would really entrench into law special status for delusional and often seriously mentally ill heterosexual male crossdressers. Under these laws even Rob Ford could suddenly claim to be a woman trapped in a man’s body, put on a fancy lady’s bonnet, and march into the nearest women’s washroom as a self-declared “trans woman” to ogle all the ladies at their most intimate moments and he would not need to corroborate this claim in any other way. Hello, Planet Earth calling, is anyone there:- could we try to be a bit more serious and sensible her
Yours Truly, Toronto Ontario
02/23/12 8:14 PM EST
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Transsexuality, a primer for the GLB community p10
Transsexuality is already protected under both federal and provincial human- rights law as a form of sexual orientation. Gender dysphoria is often a close companion of transsexuality and is clearly a disabling condition and is thus also protected under human-rights law as a form of disability. The entire straight world and nearly all of the GLB community accepts a bi-gendered social system and there is no need for the GLB community to go to war with the straight world to overturn that bi-gendered classification system. The GLB community must deal with many other more pressing issues such as the criminalization of HIV, and getting improved access to fertility therapies, and so on and it cannot afford to fritter away its scarce political capital in silly futile projects which benefit a small but very vocal group of highly homophobic heterosexual transvestites which has never done any favours ever either collectively or individually for the GLB community. The GLB community also needs to devote much more resources to helping ultrafeminine males such as the gay fairies and twinkies who are severely stigmatized and socially marginalized even in the gay community and who have by far the highest incidence of severe depression and premature death from suicide. They are the true transsexuals and they do belong in the GLB community and it is time for the GLB community to take care of its own first and not to sacrifice them to the benefit of a small mob of highly delusional and very oppressive heterosexual male transvestites. It is time for the GLB community to recognize and redraw the boundary between heterosexual transvestism and true transsexuality to reunite true transsexuals with their natural community and their natural GLB kinfolk and to liberate them from the highly oppressive and homophobic and heterosexual Transvestite Empire.
Yours Truly, Toronto Ontario
02/23/12 8:15 PM EST
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Transsexuality, a primer for the GLB community p11
If you want to read more about true transsexuality then you might read the work of Dr Peggy Cohen-Kettenis the world’s leading expert on this subject and also read the work of Dr James Cantor at CAMH, a gay psychologist whose research has provided much relief from negative stereotypes to the gay community and who also understands very clearly the distinction between transsexuality and transvestism and autogynephilia.
Yours Truly, Toronto Ontario
02/23/12 8:17 PM EST
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yours truly, you're an anonymous idiot
Hi "yours truly," we non-ignorant trans people are attempting to offer some insight for Rob on his less-than-robust criticisms of the effort to obtain protections based on gender identity passed into law. You however are just spewing out a bunch of generalizations and black-and-white simplifications of these issues. All the issues you are bringing up have been addressed and answered a thousand times over by more serious trans activists than yourself. One thing you seem to be claiming is that any "true transsexual" is heterosexual. What is that? Do you mean to say that if a non-trans woman is attracted to women then she isn't a real woman? Your comments seem to be quite heterosexist.
Savannah, Toronto ON
02/23/12 8:30 PM EST
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law teaches as well
Our laws are not just for punishment and addressing violations of someone's rights, they also have an important role to play as a teacher to society of what is and what is not acceptable. Specifically adding gender identity to our HR and related laws will help teach society that discrimination against trans people or any other gender variant people is not acceptable. The current state of affairs may be sufficient in legal circles but it fails at the law's teaching role since it does not specifically mention trans or other gender variant people. Specifying it may have no real effect on the actual operation of the law but it will make it clear to all that trans and gender variant people have fully equal rights in our society and cannot be discriminated against in any way.
Rich, Toronto Ontario
02/23/12 8:59 PM EST
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Support the bill!
As a gay man, I support the re-introduction of Bill C-389 in the Parliament of Canada and Cheri DiNovo's private member's bill in the Ontario Legislature. The legislation will advance legal protections for trans people. Furthermore, when politicians are seen taking action to affirm the rights of trans people, it's an important tone at the top message to the rest of society: that we all need to be more accepting of trans people. Every civil rights movement (e.g., people of colour, women, gays and lesbians) has lobbied for legislation to protect their identifiable group from discrimination and has celebrated when that legislation was passed. Why wouldn't trans people want the same protection and the same chance to celebrate? It's now their turn for justice.
Mark W., Toronto ON
02/23/12 10:56 PM EST
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Good Grief
Turns out there are still 'yours truly's hiding in the keyboard closet ready to recite at a moment's notice the false theories of Dr. James Cantor, Dr. Ray Blanchard, Dr. Bailey on the internet to soften the mistaken & misinformed personal comments of Xtra writer's like Rob Salerno. I will leave you to do the writing & talking while we shove off to promote action which protects and empowers trans people via human rights protections.
Susan Gapka, Toronto Ontario
02/23/12 10:59 PM EST
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Instead
For your consideration, two quotes from former NDP MP Bill Siksay, who introduced the ancestor of Bill C-389 following consultation with the trans community, and fought for it for years: "Accessing these protections through a convoluted process using other possibly related categories, usually the categories of sex and disability, diminishes the protection and limits our understanding of the causes and effects of the particular discrimination. A right that has to be explained is not a particularly effective right." "Including an explicit reference to gender identity and gender expression is still important. It is important for absolute clarity. Trans people should not have to think their way into protection."
Matt, Montreal Select
02/23/12 11:36 PM EST
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gay men in bonnets
Same-sex couples tend to be stable only when at least one of the partners is at least semi-transsexual. quote from yours truly. Yours truly: You are completely insane. That statement is like saying that "true transexuals (your term) are only happy when they can display their new vaginas to the world". Crazy statement, huh? Just like yours. Gay men come in all flavours but the majority I know are in stable relationships because they are people who want to be in stable relationships not because one of them is "playing femmebot housewifey". I also wonder if George Smitherman would appreciate your characterization of his partner as a semi-transexual! Any points you were making about hetero cross dressers (which I agree with) were ruined by this crazy remark. Buh bye!
sick of trans people speaking about gay men, Toronto Ontario
02/24/12 8:26 AM EST
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Where power comes from
Savannah, I think it's important to recognize that whatever political power gays and lesbians have in this city has not come as a gift from politicians. It originated in the use of our democratic freedoms to make our presence known and to confront society with our story. Generally, politicians will act only when they see that the political climate is changing and that they could end up on the wrong side. That said, demanding legislation is a good way to open up the space for talking abd educating people about issues. So while I agree with you that legislation is preferable to court rulings, I Rob is also right to identify the essentially instrumental nature of campaigns to change the law. They are a tactic and therefore always open to doubt and review.
Ken Popert, Toronto Ontario
02/24/12 10:33 AM EST
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Pope Ken speaks!
I'd like to know more about these 'democratic freedoms' you speak of, Ken. When do you expect Pink Triangle Press might begin to embrace them?
Speaking of tactics, Toronto Ontario
02/24/12 11:12 AM EST
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[Editor's Note]
Disempowering
Savannah, putting the words into the legislation is not what I'm saying is disempowering. It's the ongoing debate that implies that trans people don't have rights under the law that's disempowering, and exposes trans people in other jurisdictions without explicit protections to greater discrimination and a much longer struggle. Put another way, there's currently no movement to amend the constitution to add sexual orientation (or gender identity) to s15. And if gay rights activists ever decided that it was a priority to amend the constitution to add sexual orientation to s15 I'd say they'd have lost the plot.
Rob Salerno, Toronto ON
02/24/12 1:41 PM EST
And again you miss the point
Wow. So this bill isn't needed because people in ONTARIO are protected... Guess you forgot that it's a federal bill, which would have included the other provinces & territories too huh? Once again, a moderate effort to present facts, only to fall on your face when it came time to do the right thing. As usual. Hint. Under current laws, the ONLY way Trans people are "covered" as you so eloquently assume they are, is if they PROVE to the judge that they're human (for real) that they deserve respect and equality and that their status of Trans is a legitimate state of being. Most judges REFUSE to acknowledge that bit. And that bit is the essential key that C-389 would have reinforced as a GIVEN FACT, that is NOT currently given that status now. Don't like being a second class citizen in treatment? Try being third or 4th or 5th as judged by LAW.
Leslea, Coronation Alberta
02/24/12 1:49 PM EST
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Re: Ken Popert
Ken Popert comments on the very problem with Rob Salerno's misinformed viewpoint, "...political power gays and lesbians have in this city has not come as a gift from politicians." This is exactly why the Translobbygroup.ca believes in political agency via perusing legislative rights like Toby's Act. Whereas, few trans people like myself have previously had access to political avenues, we now have an emerging population of trans people moving from the plethora of social programs located in urban centres across Ontario & Canada phoning, meeting, & emailing their MPPs & MPs. Trans people are sitting in the House of Commons to watch debates & votes on C-389 and in the Ontario Legislature for Toby's Act. There will be no stopping trans people now that we are engaged. We will use the same determination, hard work, and vigilance to gain political access which we needed to simply survive our everyday life struggle to become our true selves.
Susan Gapka, Toronto Ontario
02/24/12 2:38 PM EST
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Provincial/Federal
Leslea, I'm referring to the the provincial bill tabled by Cheri DiNovo. But in fact, the Canadian Human Rights Commission, as I've reported above, operates under the belief that trans people are included under the grounds of sex and sexual orientation. That's why I think resources are better spent educating people about the rights that exist under the acts. The rest of what you've written is self-evidently nonsense. No one needs to prove to a judge that they're "human."
Rob Salerno, Toronto ON
02/24/12 3:41 PM EST
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Re: ROv Salerno
Awesome. So, what you are saying is that if I get arrested, I wont be thrown in a prison with males. Wow. The evidence I've seen for the opposite has absolutely no weight because you say so! Fact is, I've lost jobs, friends, family, been denied washroom use by corporate bigots, and all of this was very completely legal. This legislation will make it a criminal offense to fire me simply because I'm stepping outside of the gender binary. People who say that gender as it is written right now do not realize that wording only covers MAN and WOMAN. It does not cover tranmen and transwomen in the slightest, because society has a habit of seeing us as the gender we were born as. I have a task for you. I want you, for one year, to walk the path of a transexual. You need to be able to come out to your family and friends, work, coworkers, landlord. You need to actively engage HRT and you'll need to pass perfectly. Oh, and from the start, you'll need to use the opposite gender bathroom and dress as the opposite gender. You need to actively take part in this experience in order to fully comprehend what we deal with on a day by day basis. And while doing this, you are not allowed to tell ANYONE that it is only an experiment.
Gina, Edmonton Alberta
02/24/12 4:06 PM EST
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What the legislation won't do
Gina, no legislation planned or on the books anywhere makes discrimination a criminal offense. That would be ridiculous. The point I'm making is that these instances of discrimination you've face are *already* illegal, and you should use the rights and tools you already have to fight back. No law is going to end discrimination ever, in the same way that Code prohibitions on racial discrimination have not stopped racism. Even if the Code is amended, you will have to go to the courts/commission to fight back against discrimination.
Rob Salerno, Toronto ON
02/24/12 4:33 PM EST
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a man's paradise (?)
I must say, reading 'yours truly's' epistle is enlightening: a world of gay men without ANY women WHATSOEVER. It must be something that such men, and 'yours truly' can only be a man, dream of. It is always a wonder how fearful some men are of women--and this man's homosexuality seems, in this missive, to pass the boundary of the absurd.
Jessica, Ottawa Ontario
02/25/12 10:33 PM EST
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trans equality rights do already exist
It is true that the equality rights of trans people is already enshrined in our Charter of Rights. Section 15.1 states "Every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to the equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination", then it goes on to list the enumerated groups as examples only. Section 15.1 clearly states that all Canadians are equal under the law so Canadian trans people are already covered by equality rights in our Charter as is everyone else. This is why equality rights for LGB people were "read into" the Charter, there were no new equality rights for LGB people because of this but it did acknowledged that LGB Canadians do have equality rights since "every individual" has equality rights. Its the exact same for trans people, any trans person or group who launches a discrimination suit will win if they can prove the discrimination because they too are covered under "every individual" just like everyone else. However as I mentioned above I do believe its very important to add gender identity and gender expression to the enumerated classes since our laws have a teaching role in our society. Making it clear and obvious that trans people do have the same equality rights and protections from discrimination as everyone else will, in my opinion, help reduce discrimination against trans people since it would remove any doubt at all that they are covered by the equality and anti-discrimination sections of our Charter. Btw sexual orientation has not been added to the enumerated groups in the section 15.1 of our Charter but the equal marriage debate and resolution still had the effect of using the law as a teacher about the equality of LGB people. But there is unlikely to be as large or wide spread discussion of trans equality as happened with the equal marriage debate so adding gender id/expression to the enumerated groups will accomplish the teaching goal of our laws instead.
Rich, Toronto Ontario
02/27/12 12:17 AM EST
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OHRC not same as Charter
Its been pointed out to me that the OHRC is not the same as the Charter of Rights. So while trans people do have the same equality guarantees and protection from discrimination at the federal level as anyone else that's not true of the provincial level, at least in Ontario.
Rich, Toronto Ontario
02/27/12 3:27 AM EST
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Of Course...
While true that people born with transsexualism and people who are transgender are vaguely covered within the various human rights codes each person born with ....or who are.... must each time make that case for the coverage and then those who have breached the code will try to make the case why that heading should not cover that person. This clearly means that too many companies/organisations are not aware of said vague coverage when they are going through, with their own human resources, of the protections. Having it explicitly spelled out makes it clear and means organisations no longer have the ability to claim ignorance. (which they do) This includes those in the justice system who for too often will refuse to acknowledge that woman or man because their documents don't yet fully concur. I wonder of those who think this need not be written in would feel the same way if gay wasn't written in but instead was sorted included within some other grouping. And Rob not sure how you can get to the idea that having it included specifically is going to cause more harm, because of the Hudat ilk. As for creating a "movement" to make changes to the Charter takes money. That money which was removed when Harper came to power. It was money like the Court Challenges Program that helped people who are gay make those changes before. And Rob, it was that money that when a Charter Challenge was in it's beginning back in 99, that EGALE decided would be better used for equal marriage. Of course with that promise of, lets do this one first then....... People like "yours stupidly" constantly show why protections need to be made concrete. I suspect he was one of those transvestites who tried to get past CAMH but was called on for being what he is. An autogynephilic transvestite. The kind he mentions himself.
Jill, Toronto ON
02/28/12 4:31 PM EST
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@Rob
{no one can point to a single trans case with merit that's been turned away from the OHRC. } Huh? You can't point to a case because unless accepted by the commission the complainant has attended, no case file begins. And even at the very beginning stages still nothing will ever show up. I could point to cases of merit, if such a record was kept. I know of such cases that were not followed through with. But good luck finding them within the commission because only those that reach further into the process are accessible in their archive system. It's sort of like saying that queer people were not being persecuted long ago because there are no written complaints filed and found within the complaint system of the day. That's utter nonsense and typical of your thinking. I'm a woman of colour and I know what it was like growing up seeing the clear targeting by police of my black sisters and brothers. It wasn't until actual legislation came it that there was a hope to do much about it. For that matter doesn't that sound alot like people who are queer as well? Bath house anyone? Changes happen through education and that happens much easier when laws make it ok. It's much harder to remove a right, regardless of how it became a right. Rob stop being a jerk already.
femme, Toronto On
02/28/12 5:20 PM EST
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I think I agree
Personally I kind of agree with Rob on this one, although I disagree with some of his reasoning. I disagree that introducing this legislation is dis-empowering or harmful, because I really don't see that. That being said ever since this became a big push by the community I was confused. In terms of priorities, I would say getting explicit protection, when we are already protected should be a very low priority. I highly doubt the extra line on the code will make a big difference in stopping people discriminating against us. Rather than fighting for explicit protection I would rather we advocate for health care for trans people in every province and better health care and access to health care in the provinces that do cover us. Or changes to the prison system that forces trans people to be segregated with the wrong gender. Or make changes to background checks, like the British have, where your old name is not shown to your employer if you clear the check and are trans. And I would also like a bigger fight to be able to amend documents easier, specifically birth certificates and passports. Personally I think these things are much more pressing issue and I think would have a greater impact on the lives of trans people than just getting a line on a paper letting others know we have rights that we already have.
Julia, Toronto Ontario
02/29/12 6:08 PM EST
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Misunderstanding the scope of Charter protection
The Charter only applies to the actions of government. So, even if s.15 were ruled to extend to trans people, it would only protect against discrimination by government. It would not help a trans person who was denied accommodation, or a job, or service in a store, because they are trans. The OHRC rules in those cases, which is why the amendments are needed.
Patrick, Toronto ON
02/29/12 6:47 PM EST
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you're right
Patrick that did occur to me as well after I posted above, I'm relatively familiar with the Charter of Rights since I studied it in university but that was 18-19 years ago, I've forgotten much of it since then or rather the memories of what I learned are very fuzzy. However its still true that the Charter guarantees the equality of everyone and not just the enumerated groups, I had figured that also applied to provincial gov'ts and since the OHRC is an agent of the provincial gov't it would apply, but in reality it wouldn't since the OHRC deals with citizens not gov'ts and their agencies. I don't see why the OHRC could not be changed to adopt the same language of the Charter to ban discrimination amongst citizens of any group of people. I don't mean this to be rhetorical but is there ever a situation where it would be permissible for one citizen to discriminate against another? I can't think of any reason, so long as hired/fired/evicted for cause is maintained and I don't see why it wouldn't be. It just seems like it'd be much simpler for a MPP to pass a bill that changes the OHRC to make it ban discrimination against anyone by anyone. I suppose there's some reason for it I can't imagine right now. I'm very optimistic that Toby's Act will pass this time around since the Libs have a minority and the NDP are strong supporters of the bill.
Rich, Toronto Ontario
02/29/12 8:31 PM EST
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Nope, nothing wrong here.
Is that a slathering dog coming at me. Oh, no probs--the courts will protect me. Whew. The charter is ICONIC -- let the people (and the slathering rabid dogs) see that gender and sex are separate, and stamp it into their consciousness any way possible. C'mon why not let the itty bitty gender variants have their kind stamped on the Great Charter Wall. Is that too much for you? Even if we say 'Pwetty Pwease'?? Not necessary? As one commenter has already mentioned... Walk the walk dude--then talk the talk and tell me it ain't so necessary. btw, thanks for speakin' down for us... it's so charming. mwah!
Bree, Nelson BC
03/02/12 1:59 PM EST
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Separate
It is impossible to enter into a discussion about trans issues without being attacked for having the incorrect take on the issues. I for one am sick of it, and I am not transphobic - a term that is hauled out as a trump card. What is needed is a trans version of "Xtra" so that you can have these vicious internal conversations you so desire without the intrusion of gay men entering the conversation and pissing you off. I think the time has come, PTP. How about a trans site? I'd like to get back to the dyke and faggot issues at hand, the community that built Xtra and which Xtra is primarily supposed to service. We'll never make them happy, let's stop trying.
Alejandro, Toronto ON
04/08/12 11:39 PM EST
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