Tuesday, June 15, 2010 2:24 PM

You realize this issue appeals to 1-2% of the total amount of people who show up to Pride. You do realize that of the 900,000 something people who will be in Toronto Pride weekend, only 100 or so will actually know a) what this issue is about and b) actually care.

Karl

Tuesday, June 15, 2010 2:16 PM

Let's always keep at the forefront of our minds the basic facts about Pride Toronto and Queers Against Israeli Apartheid (QuAIA). The facts are simple and clear.

The two primary requirements for participation in Pride are to be:
(1.) part or supportive of the LGBT community; and,
(2.) law-abiding.

QuAIA (see: http://www.quaia.org) meets both of these requirements. Singling out one group that meets the requirements and then banning its lawful political speech is censorship (see: http://tinyurl.com/censordef2).

In Canada, freedom of expression -- including lawful political speech -- is constitutionally protected as a fundamental right. That right is a foundational pillar of any liberal democracy.

Rick

Tuesday, June 15, 2010 3:32 PM

Karl - Sure - many of the people who come to Pride itself don't care - but that's not the point. Most of those folks are simply out for a good party- and most aren't even part of the LGBT community. The reality though is that a large proportion of the queer community does care about this - especially people who are leaders in the community, community organizers, those who work in gay organizations or are active in politics. There are broader ramifications for the community in terms of how this split is impacting many of us who work in the community.

Remember -- Pride started with just a few brave souls - NOT the larger community. It could be transformed again by the action of a few brave souls.

AK

Tuesday, June 15, 2010 3:59 PM

@AK - hear, hear!

Kim K.

Tuesday, June 15, 2010 4:23 PM

Support for homophobic cultures is stupid!
It's disappointing that some Toronto gays and lesbians are upset about the banning of the anti-semitic QUAIA from Toronto's Pride parade. Israel is the only country in the middle east that offers a range of rights for gays and lesbians. Can you imagine a Pride parade in Iran or Saudi Arabia? No, you can't, because all of the parade attendees would be executed. The supporters of QUAIA are obviously so intoxicated on notions of "social justice" that they can't see the illogicalness of their support for homophobic cultures. It's utterly stupid for gays and lesbians to support the QUAIA. Shame on you!

tubu

Tuesday, June 15, 2010 4:03 PM

I think it is possibly compromising for community Organizations that are publicaaly and privately accepting donations to use the language /support the right for Quaia to have a voice in the parade or otherwise. Although most in the LGT community work from an anti oppression framework, it does not mean they are free to support some language that may oppress some people, in an effort to bring awareness to another group. I have queer Jewish and none Jewish friends, that recognize immediately the term Israeli apartheid, implicates most Jewish people, as they all do not make public there personal opinions on Israeli policy. It is not fair to anyone on either side to single out one Goverment and say, you are not pointing fingers at the Individual Jews or Israeli. Why was'nt the coalition for free speech "for all" present in the parade for years in support of the activists that won us so many rights. If a contigent of people afraid of muslim extremism that supports much racist ideology was to march in the parade or a couple of thousand down university, do you think their message of extremism and the terror that some in there nations feel towrds others would be tolerated. No. Many people who are minoritys would feel threatened by this kind of free speech. Show some sensitivity and respect to some in other communitys as well. Another misconception I have heard is Jewish people are the "majority" and have money. This sweeping generalization is ignorant. There are many Jewish queer people whos family did not except there coming out, or were immigrants that had no money , family or an education when they moved to canada. Myths around, Jewish People are popular. Just because some Jewish people side with anti Israeli policy, it does not mean the under pinning consequence is promoting and Jewish rhetoric. Why they are blinded to seeing this as a reality, is confusing. Look at how many people belive Quaia, is implicating the larger Jewish community made up of individuals that feel "threatened". Threatened means singling them out as a whole by the terminology used.Freedom of speech....I have a friend who was robbed by a black youth. He is afraid of black people.Is he racist? Please.

Jamie

Tuesday, June 15, 2010 4:14 PM

Hey Rick, your freedom of expression is limited when it discriminates against others. The City of Toronto has anti-discrimination laws that prohibit QuAIA from marching as it's named. You may not believe there's anything wrong, but the City and a cadre of lawyers said otherwise and shut it down.

Again, your freedom isn't threatened, only your ability to parade about discriminating against a protected group.

Grant

Tuesday, June 15, 2010 4:50 PM

Actually Grant, the legal advice was that QuAIA does not in fact violate the city's anti-discrimination policy. That is why this is all so outrageous.

Shawn

Tuesday, June 15, 2010 5:35 PM

The issue is NOT about "freedom of expression," per se -- rather, it's about gay and lesbian rights. And to allow an anti-semitic group to co-opt the Pride parade by inserting the word "Queer" in their group's name is both exploitive and specious. Why support homophobic cultures at Pride? That's just plain stupid!

tubu

Tuesday, June 15, 2010 5:16 PM

That is so true, tubu.

hannah

Tuesday, June 15, 2010 5:50 PM

Good to see some other people are speaking up about the non-sensical support of a group, QuAIA that directly and indirectly are supporting at best intolerence of a country that supports LGBT rights. I also have several queer jewish friends one of whom`s family left South Africa during apartheid to come to Canada and she is deeply offended by the term. She also believes that Israel should not be exempted of criticism in their mis-treatment of the Palestinians. In our view the Pride parade is not the place to offend any group, Israelis or Palestinians. She is coming to Pride with me this year to celebrate the accomplishments of Toronto`s LGBT over the past thirty years.

Don

Tuesday, June 15, 2010 8:32 PM

Funny, everyone condeming Pride for being too much of a big party will continue to make every effort to be the most talked-about people at the party.

Ryan

Tuesday, June 15, 2010 10:49 PM

Where is the evidence that QuAIA is anti-semitic? Everything I have ever heard from them or seen in their messaging is no where near anti-semitic. They are made up of many Jewish Israeli-Canadian queers so I don't see how they would tolerate anti-semitism from any of their members plus they are a human rights group not a hate group. Just because you call them names doesn't make it true.

Btw Jamie yes your friend being afraid of all black people because they got robbed by one is racist, its attributing the actions of one to the whole community, that is the basis of racism, and anti-semtism, homophobia, sexism and all the other forms of bigotry too. Jamie I don't know of anyone that sees the state of Israel's policies and Jews as indistinguishable except for anti-semites and those trying to muzzle criticism of Israeli policies. Its simply not true that the gov't of the state of Israel is indistinguishable from Jews whether Israeli Jews or Jews from other countries. Just because some non-Israeli Jews have an affinity for the state of Israel does not make them synonymous with the state of Israel and even if they themselves some how see themselves as indistinguishable from Israel, a mental feat I can't comprehend, no one else does except for perhaps anti-semites and those opposed to people having opinions of Israeli policy that differ from their own. Have you never seen or read any truly anti-semitic comments? I have to believe not because if you did you would see in an instant just how different they are from any of QuAIA's messaging.

tubu - QuAIA didn't just insert the word queer into their name, they actually are a bunch of queers, many of whom have long been active in human rights activism in Toronto for a very long time. They are a legitimate part of the community whether you want them to be or not.

I'm surprised at the number of people willing to sacrifice freedom of expression to try and silence those with opinions about Israeli policy that differs from their own. Legal opinion after legal opinion has stated that QuAIA has not violated the city's anti-discrimination policy and just one city staffer said they might have even though they never actually examined the issue. In fact banning QuAIA does violate the city's anti-discrimination act because they are being discriminated against on the basis of political belief, something not allowed under the anti-discrimination act. So to sum up there's at least 3 legal opinions stating QuAIA doesn't violate the policy by lawyers who have studied the issue, 2 consulted by Pride Inc, the other from the Canadian Civil Liberties Association, one maybe it does from a city staffer who hasn't examined the issue and a definitely does violate the anti-discrimination act for discriminating against QuAIA on the basis of their political beliefs. It starting to seem the city's anti-discrimination act is based more on lobbying power than justice, fairness or anti-discrimination policy.

Rich

Tuesday, June 15, 2010 11:29 PM

@Tubu. What "cultures" do you consider homophobic? Pray tell. Most of us were raised in homophobic cultures in Canada (many still are), and we owe a debt of gratitude to activists (like QuAIA) to "provoke" society to think differently. Freedom of expression is what made it possible and saved us from insane asylums. How do you even consider yourself queer if you do not get this. Provocation is not hatred.

JG

Wednesday, June 16, 2010 12:55 AM

@Jamie. Harper's conservatives are the most pro Israel government Canada has ever seen. Why would Israeli Pride revellers feel threatened when they can count such powerful friends on their side? Why is the word apartheid so menacing if it is an inaccurate description of Israel's policy?

JG

Wednesday, June 16, 2010 12:59 AM

@ Jamie. Should all black youth be banned from Pride to make your friend feel safe?

JG

Wednesday, June 16, 2010 12:53 AM

Jg, of course not. Just because my friend was attacked by a black youth, I neither feel youth or black people as a whole should be banned from pride. My point was, my friend is justifeied based on his experience. Who will teach him to feel safe and trust again? maybe the person who beat him, but thats not going to happen. You are talking about hurt and angry people both in Israel and Palestine. Drawing attention to one side of the facts is just not going to solve the palestian And Israeli conflict. If you want to be educators of peace and injustice, sit down with both sides here or there and moderate peace between the two groups. Your energy would be far better spent with your cause.

Jamie

Wednesday, June 16, 2010 2:42 AM

Jamie I understood your point. It is the word justify that concerns me. Your friend is not justified based on his experience. If he was robbed by a white person would he hate all whites? Perhaps he would be mistrustful of people in general but would not single out one characteristic of the robber and make it an isssue, unless he was racist to begin with. Relative to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict Toronto Pride is not there to resolve such an intractable issue, but it should allow both sides to express their positions freely within the limits of the law. Pride has a tradition of doing just that.

JG

Wednesday, June 16, 2010 5:50 AM

Jg,I feel sorry for you to keep misunderstanding the point. I never said my friend "hates" anybody, I asked the question would he be justified to feel distrust based on the crime committed against him. If a tall whit person with distinct features assaulted him, he would probably be "afraid" the same. Pride or any protest for other rights, I personally feel does not make a difference through marches. All the past activists, created an opening for meaningful dialogue and education regarding sexuality, trying to teach "straight" society that this was not contagious, and we are like everyone else. Quaia wants to promote awareness toward Israeli apartheid, then they need to make sure they actually are not subversively promoting hate. People are saying that politically Israel is called the "Jewish State", so as such, you attack Israels Policies, you are suggesting that the Jewish citizens are voting for what Quaia is calling "Israeli terrorism". That just does not make some people "uncomfortable" it is scary to many, as the Jewish citizens in Israel feel they need protection from terrorist attacks. It is "like" suggesting they are condoning it, which many feel justified. Freedom of speech requires people to support both sides in difficult conflict. As both sides are justified in there feelings. You are commenting on peoples lives and they are both victims in their land. That would be true freedom of speech.

Jamie

Wednesday, June 16, 2010 7:06 AM

Jamie makes an interesting comment: "Freedom of speech requires people to support both sides in difficult conflict. As both sides are justified in there feelings. You are commenting on peoples lives and they are both victims in their land. That would be true freedom of speech." Firstly, there may be more than 2 sides to any conflict. Secondly, a committment to free speech requires that all sides can express their lawful viewpoint. Thirdly, no side is obligated to make another side's counter argument in order to exercize their free speech rights. Fourthly, both sides may not be justified in their point of view.

GaySolomon

Wednesday, June 16, 2010 8:53 AM

Jamie if you think that fear of somebody does not generate hate you are naive. It is the same sentiment that you have expressed about the use of the word apartheid. You are concerned that uninformed people will use it to fear/hate/dislike the jewish people that may have nothing to do with Israeli policy. I get it. However one cannot shield people from the issues in fear they may misinterpret the complexity of a situation. That's insulting people's intelligence and ends up doing more harm in the long run. The solution, difficult as it may be, is to communicate better not to quash it. I knew little about QuAIA until recently, and if it was not for the kerfuffle with PT I would not have bothered informing myself about their point of view. My research has led me to believe that although provocative, they are not anti-semitic not even anti-Israeli. I was however struck by the sinister tactics used to silence them. Hence I have sided with free speech. Notice how most reputable people in the community are upset at PT for kowtowing to one side instead of showing nuetrality. They are not anti-semitic. If I was into conspiracy theories I would be inclined to believe that some powerful conservative voices are trying to sow discord in the gay community and distract us. Notice how we have forgotten that the federal governament has cut off Pride's funding for reason that have nothing to do with QuAIA.

JG

Wednesday, June 16, 2010 12:46 PM

@ AK - I think you're getting the word "leaders" mixed up with word whiners.

Karl

Wednesday, June 16, 2010 1:12 PM

Karl - if all you can do to advance your arguments is to sling mud at those with whom you disagree, then you are publicly undermining your own position.

GaySolomon

Wednesday, June 16, 2010 1:17 PM

Jg, "sinister tactics", it seems to me that there simply was put forth opposing views. Funding could have been tied to Quaia point of view, and then the censorship side would indeed still hold there point of view. I thik it is a cheap shot to call others who feel offended and asked for the term (or rather whats behind the term) to not stir up hate. As Gay felt like pointed out there is more sides to the story. The opposing party is just taking action for what they believe, just like Quaia supporters. Now thats freedom of speech. I am alittle tired of most of the Quaia supporters expressing that they have "all these community leaders behind them". The facts are, these community leaders depend on supportting many fringe and minority groups as there paycheck and city funding is helping them promote the equality that oppressed minoritys deserve. So they are paid people in the feild supporting there "clients". That my friends is freedom of speech. It is tied to all the public LGBT groups who are in partnership with each other. It simply may be more about supporting their colleagues and friends. You were right to say Gay, there are more then two sides to every story. In my opinion power to free speech.

Jamie

Wednesday, June 16, 2010 3:01 PM

@ Jamie. If you agree with Gay Solomon that "a committment to free speech requires that all sides can express their lawful viewpoint" than you and I are also in agreement buddy, the rest is not important. Cheers!

JG

Wednesday, June 16, 2010 8:02 PM

Jamie you are very wrong in describing the smear campaign against QuAIA as "opposing views". If that were the case Gladstone's video would have focused on contradicting QuAIA's messaging, instead he personally attacked the members of QuAIA by calling them anti-semitic hate mongers, plus his video was full of lies and distortions of reality, using video from other demonstrations in other cities implying that QuAIA was a part of those demonstrations when in fact they had nothing whatsoever to do with them. He also changed their chant from "brick by brick, wall by wall" to a much more threatening sounding "fist by fist, blow by blow". He also twisted the meaning of a t-shirt with a well known anti-nazi symbol someone was wearing, who wasn't even a member of QuAIA but was marching with them, to mean that he was calling Israelis nazis, granted some have called Israelis nazis in the past but without some sort of indication that that was what he meant by it its as far fetched as claiming no smoking signs mean Israelis are like cancer. If the guy had meant to compare Israelis to nazis he failed miserably and could have much more easily chosen other symbols to make his point if that was his point like a Star of David an equal sign and a swastika or actual words. Plus that particular symbol's historical context in the LGBT community has much more to do with the Anti-Racist Action (ARA) a group largely made up of queers who took direct action to oppose anti-semitic and racist groups in Toronto and whose members often wore the same anti-nazi symbol, they ran an anti-semitic neo-nazi out of Toronto several years back, if I remember correctly he was the leader of the Heritage Front but I could be wrong about that, its been a while. That's the historical context of that symbol's past use in the LGBT community in Toronto. Gladstone should have been aware of that if he was paying any attention to LGBT or Jewish issues in this city over the past decade or so, if he wasn't then he should have asked about it before taking a leap of logic and twisting its meaning. Plus there was a still image going around of the same person wearing the anti-nazi t-shirt but with the "anti" symbol Photoshopped out so it looked just like a normal swastika, when news of it first broke we were being told that members of QuAIA were marching wearing swastikas on their shirts. It was quickly proven wrong but that's the sort of thing QuAIA has faced from those opposed to them, none of it was any sort of "opposing view". However in years past that exactly was how QuAIA was being responded to in the parade, by other groups marching and expressing their opposing view of the situation in Israel and the occupied territories and expressing much more positive images of Israel, both groups marched expressing opposing views and that is as it should be in a free and democratic country instead of one group attacking Pride, teaming up with an anti-gay bigot and threatening to get its funding pulled so it'd be reduced to a shadow of its former self, regardless of its impact on the LGBT community, if Pride Inc didn't do as they were told and ban QuAIA from expressing their political views in the parade. Again that's not simply expressing an opposing view, that's blackmail, I guess a nicer way of saying it was that they used the threat of massive financial loss and the elimination of Pride as we've come to know it in order to convince Pride Inc to do what they they were told to do but really that's just describing blackmail instead of naming it.

Ironically Pride Inc is now in violation of the city's anti-discrimination act because they have effectively banned QuAIA from participating, its a violation of the anti-discrimination act to discriminate against anyone because of their political beliefs and that is what Pride Inc is doing. There have been three independent legal opinions stating that QuAIA's participation in Pride did not violate the city's anti-discrimination act, the city only said it might violate it, they never actually examined the issue, I doubt they ever wanted to. I'm sure QuAIA won't try to get Pride's funding pulled and to shut down the celebration like Gladstone and the pro-censorship folks did though, QuAIA is much more in tune with the LGBT community in Toronto and would never act in any way to harm its main celebration.

Rich

Wednesday, June 16, 2010 8:32 PM

Much like JG I didn't remember QuAIA from last year's Pride parade or know anything about them, when I heard there was a hate group marching in the parade I believed it at first because I had no reason to doubt what I was being told, when I went to find out the gory details and see how bad QuAIA actually was for myself I quickly realized that they weren't a hate group, hadn't used hate speech and wasn't anti-semitic, I have read some very anti-semitic comments and articles in the past so it was quickly apparent when I saw QuAIA's messaging that they were miles away from actual anti-semitism, I became pissed off at how I had been lied to and manipulated and that's largely what has been driving me to defend QuAIA whenever and where ever I see lies printed against them. I also strongly oppose censorship though I do believe hate speech should be banned but that isn't he issue here, this is about silencing a political view that is very unpopular in some circles. I believe we must always stand on guard to protect our rights and freedoms and I see this censorship of QuAIA as legitimizing the silencing of unpopular political views and that is a very dangerous and slippery slope to be going down in this country. Ironically its been the campaign to silence QuAIA that has given them a voice and a reach they never could have achieved on their own, they are now known across Canada and around the world because of the campaign to silence them so even though they have succeeded in getting QuAIA effectively banned they have failed miserably in their attempts to silence them. I for one in examining what the fuss was all about and whether or not apartheid was the right word or not have found out all sorts of disturbing information about the living conditions of the Palestinians in the occupied territories, I learned about the laws and practices that work to keep people in the occupied territories separated based on their religion and ethnicity, laws that have nothing whatsoever to do with keeping Israel safe like the law banning any Palestinian from being a passenger in any Israeli or foreign vehicle, if caught the driver faces no sanction but the Palestinian passenger faces up to 5 years in jail. I was also shocked to learn how much violence and destruction of Palestinian property is done by Israeli settlers in the occupied territories, we never hear about any of it but if any Palestinian harms an Israeli settler its front page news around the world. Mind you I was also surprised to learn that very many Jewish Israelis are actively opposed to the treatment of Palestinians and that many have strong social ties with Palestinians in the occupied territories, also something we never hear about over here.

Anyways my point being is that Gladstone and the pro-censorship group could have been acting on behalf of QuAIA considering how much they have benefited them, just look at how much is being discussed about the issue in these comments sections and because of the censorship I have learned more about apartheid in Israel than I ever intended to do. It also goes to show the futility of censorship. Censorship is still the main issue of concern for me though, what's happening in Israel and the occupied territories is debatable and has been debated with both sides expressing their views as is healthy in a free democracy, however censorship is not acceptable and we must fight to maintain our right of free speech and stop the erosion of that freedom in our country. This censorship by Pride Inc also serves to legitimize the idea that unpopular political opinions can and should be censored and that is a concept very dangerous to maintaining our rights and freedoms and which be opposed at all costs to ensure we do not start down the road to the erosion of even more of our rights.

Sorry for such long posts, I feel strongly about the issue and have a lot to say about it, I actually do try to limit the length of my posts otherwise they could be much longer believe it or not.

Rich

Wednesday, June 16, 2010 9:07 PM

Rich, I will let gladstone answer for himself anything to do with that documentary. I have not seen it, and my concerns and defense come from a place of some Queer Jews and non Jews who have been emotionaly effected "threatened by the impact of Quaia message on them as a people who support a nation. Israel is known , and referred to as "The Jewish State", by the UN,media,and most countries citizen. This is not rocket science Rich. If you ask anyone not familiar with either message, they will tell you they equate, Israel with Judaism. So wether you are fighting for Quaia, or freedom of speech to open the door for stigmatizing Israel, you in turn are helping to further stigmatization to both Israeli citizens, and the majority of people who make the association with "Israel being "a Jewish state". I can't , and wont make my point any clearler then that. Queer Jews and the citys Jewish community, as a whole recognize the unseen effects. Did you know, our downtown Jewish community centre at Spadina and bloor, open to everyone regardless of race, religion, ethnic or sexual differences, recieves a number of bomb threats a year for being pro Israel. Note its name"Jewish community centre". They have to have police and security 24 hours because of the threat of terrorism to its facilities. That is in our city. They no the sting and threat of what promotes Jewish&and Israeli hate. It is synonomous whether you guys admit it or not. I have said all that is worth expressing on this subject. I thank all those that dialogued.

Jamie

Thursday, June 17, 2010 12:39 AM

Holy... FUCK, I can't and refuse to read these comments. Can we just please. Please.

Alex

Thursday, June 17, 2010 12:12 AM

I just assume it the same back and forth over and over again... can we mobilize for our awesome Trans community? That's what I THINK this year should be about... great visibility.

I had a straight person ask me recently (yesterday) what TRANSEXUAL IS... explained it to her and the strife from inside and outside of the community. Let's get these guys (and girls and hotties) some decent programming and let's go to THOSE stages... I really think that THAT should be the battle of the year.. the battle to absorb into the Queer community after all of these years.

I will cry harder this year for those that have the courage to be in the trans march than those that march for PFLAG... I admire you all infinitely...

Alex

Thursday, June 17, 2010 3:04 AM

Okay, now, getting back to the basic facts.

The two primary requirements for participation in Pride are to be:
(1.) part or supportive of the LGBT community; and,
(2.) law-abiding.

QuAIA [http://www.quaia.org] meets both of these requirements.

If anybody has concrete evidence to the contrary, then please, by all means, post it so that it may be evaluated.

And to reiterate: Singling out one group that meets the requirements and then banning its lawful political speech is censorship [http://tinyurl.com/censordef2].

Rick

Thursday, June 17, 2010 7:41 AM

Alex, we should mobilize for our awesome Trans community by avoiding cheap humour on the Pride Guide cover and further alienating them. We can begin with taking back PT and save it from its incompetent self. PT has issued an apology for the cover, and that was good. One is also needed for the censorship disaster.

JG

Saturday, June 19, 2010 10:47 AM

My God! The logic of some people boggles my mind. If a queer group wants to march they have every right to march. Queers should not be censoring queers. If there is anything illegal going let the cops deal. The people who are supporting the ban are individuals who can't mobilize themselves out of a paper bag. Where are their groups coming out in support of the ban? I can give you a long list of organizations in support of rescinding the ban, can you give me two or three groups who support the ban. If listen to your repeated lies = swastikas @ Pride, violence, hate etc. if you can show me a list of queer community organizations. Just because people say I want to party, doesn't mean they are organized around supporting the ban...come on folks, bring it on!

roy

Saturday, June 19, 2010 2:19 PM

Roy, People who agree with the ban or just want pride to be about celebrating there queerness, may not feel the need for a counter demonstration. The operative word being "demonsration". People will glance or cheer a thousand quuer for in support of Israeli aparthied, and the greater city and many more watching the parade will think, "go angry people go". Thats it, Jewish groups that are pro-Israeli right to protect their citizens, Muslim and Islamic groups who feel threatened culturally by Quuers, Dont care. So, the majority of city, voiced for the ban are not needing to march and scream, because no one cares in the end. The issues are deeper and far more complex then a thousand queers marching for one side in a city of millions. You would be better offer bringing a cake and sympathize in the homes of those that feel effected by what is going on in that regions. Protesting is a strange and angry way of trying to make a difference ,lasting peace. Lastly, all those queers , and onlookers at the parade who are there to party will do that. They will ignore the angry dykes , homos, and tranny's marching for a political cause in order to party, get drunk and have a good time. They are there to celebrate sexuality and the freedom of being able to be sexual. The opposing groups, will not waste their energy to engage the activists. In this celebration, nobody cares except the LGBTQ folks that think the are being more sexy by taking up or defending a cause. Amaonst each others, you are your sexy. Most of us, dont care if that is how you choose to party. Go freedom of speech go.

Hannah

Tuesday, June 22, 2010 12:01 PM

hannah, what you talking about girl? I have no idea where you are going with the above. If you would write out a sentence or two to explain, maybe I'd underatand what you're trying to get at. Otherwise, maybe it's just I'm one of those organized activists who loves to party and doesn't give a fuck what the supporters of the ban say. Poor Hannah, I think you support the ban because no one will pay attention to the activists because they don't care...and yet there seems to be a lot written by people that do care about the ban and I'd say will be whining about this for a long time. My point is if you believe in something, you organize around it. Hannah, maybe if a friend or a fellow pro-banner should check over your post before you write it....or maybe they don't care and they are out drinking and partying. You have a weird perspective on the queer community. God love ya.

roy

Tuesday, June 22, 2010 4:09 PM

Hey Roy, congratulations for getting exactly what I meant. You are a quick one. Point 1 The banned has been encouraged, and put forth by members of city council, all who have many perspective followers in Toronto. Point 2 You said above, "the activists will be whining for a long time." I agree, you guys will be whining for alon , long, time. Many more people in and outside of our community, do not care about the rant. In your initial post, you can be seen commenting on the pro banners organizing themselves to rally against the anti banners. All we are saying, we dont need to. The city is on our side, and you rebel kids are angry about it. So, go forth it. My staright friends watching the parade, see it with thousands of others as entertaining and humorous. Work hard on those banners, we are going to enjoy watching you guys "mobilize and work hard. Roy, everyone needs a purpose, i am happy you found inspiration.

Hannah

Tuesday, June 22, 2010 4:04 PM

Oh Roy, just in case you forgot the post that you wrote that commented on pro banners mobilizing if they cared, here it is.I simply responded by suggesting the pro banners dont need to counter your protest. They made a difference for their point of view. Roy wrote, "The people who are supporting the ban are individuals who can't mobilize themselves out of a paper bag. Where are their groups coming out in support of the ban? I can give you a long list of organizations in support of rescinding the ban, can you give me two or three groups who support the ban. If listen to your repeated lies = swastikas @ Pride, violence, hate etc. if you can show me a list of queer community organizations. Just because people say I want to party, doesn't mean they are organized around supporting the ban...come on folks, bring it on!" Yeah, okay Roy.

Hannah