Thursday, June 10, 2010 10:03 AM

FYI for those that do not know how to contact Pride Toronto and wish to express your unhappiness with the action of Pride Toronto these are the contacts names and numbers......and address and email address.....

Executive Director
Tracey Sandilands
416 927 7433 ext 222
Fundraising Director
Sponsorship & Grants
Ryan Lester
416 927 7433 ext 230
Acting Operations Director
Ben Freemam
416 927 7433 ext 245
Volunteer Program Manager
Emily Gibson
416 927 7433 ext 227

Arts & Entertainment Program
Manager
Mary Zondanos
416 927 7433 ext 233
Marketing & Communications
Manager
Michael Ain
416 927 7433 ext 226

Finance Manager
Ajay Joshi
416 927 7433 ext 264

Office Address

14 Dundonald Street
Toronto, Ontario M4Y 1K2
Tel: 416 927 7433
Fax: 416 927 7886
E-mail: office@pridetoronto.com
Email: Web Content Manager

Mailing Address

Pride Toronto
P.O. Box 371, Station F
Toronto, Ontario
CANADA
M4Y 2L8

Do not let Pride Toronto destroy the meaning of PRIDE!!!

DJ

Thursday, June 10, 2010 10:06 AM

Thanks, DJ. Pride Toronto has been insisting that only a tiny activist constituency cares about censorship.

Maybe if all the people who care about this start calling them, it might open their eyes.

Shawn Syms

Thursday, June 10, 2010 10:06 AM

Also:

Tracey@pridetoronto.com
Mark-Singh@pridetoronto.com
genevieve-diorio@pridetoronto.com
margaret-ngai@pridetoronto.com
treasurer@pridetoronto.com
secretary@pridetoronto.com
Daniel-Knox@pridetoronto.com
Selma-DSouza@pridetoronto.com
Michael@pridetoronto.com

Emails

Thursday, June 10, 2010 11:30 AM

Melanie Phillips quotes William Shawcross, who has powerful words about the world's attack on Israel:
"... Israel is a cartoon villain, beyond sympathy, beyond even redemption.
What is deeply shocking--and frightening--is that the narrative the world accepts is always that of Israel the evil-doer... The hatred that Israel arouses is absurd, even obscene... The Muslim world and the Western Left are in an unholy alliance; they do not want to improve the Jewish state, they want to remove it."
To which Phillips adds her own powerful words:
"The treatment being meted out to Israel is qualitatively and quantitatively different from the treatment meted out to any other nation. Ever. It's not just that the tyrannies of the present" - (350,000 Muslims killed in Sudan but no-one's talking about that, are they?) - "are not even reported on, let alone seen as a worthy and legitimate target of protest. Even the great progressive causes of the past, such as the campaign against apartheid South Africa, for example, never provoked such hysterical obsession, let alone such a sustained and frenzied onslaught of lie after distortion after fabrication after blood libel. Just like the Jew-hatred of the past, the characteristics of this victimization are unique.e

Well, folks, what is interesting is that in good old PC Toronto QAIA has managed to get Pride to TOTALLY forget about gay issues; now Gay Pride is ONLY about what QAIA wants it to be. They've won!

And everyone has allowed themselves to be totally manipulated...

Well, I for one will be there to march, perhaps with a sign stating "Homo against Hamas War--crimes"... just to remind everyone that the Palestinians do NOT have the monopoly on virtue.

Ken in Paris

Thursday, June 10, 2010 12:34 PM

@Ken in Paris you could not be more wrong....this cause was brought up because Pride Toronto has made it there goal not to just censor QuAIA but to censor anyone who will Perform at a Pride event.....They also had plans to make everyone hand in a out line of what they would be doing at Pride and if they did not like it you would have to remove it....Also you may not be aware of we are in a race for a new major of Toronto...you would not be able as a performer to show any support for a person you might want for major....Yes Pride is a Political event....where would France be if people did not take to the street to outs Maire Antoinette....Yes crimes happen around the world and people do speak up about it...how do you think South Africa change.....Israel has force there right on to everyone in that region and always cried when people and nations speak out against them....Gays have a strong voice in the world and many groups come to pride to express their views ....we may not agree with them but we welcome them....this is what freedom of speech means this is what a free country mean....you have a right to speak and say what you want when you want....

DJ

Thursday, June 10, 2010 12:40 PM

No DJ, this issue was solely about QuAIA. get your facts straight. It is one group that has decided to push a non-queer agenda at a GAY pride event. It has decided to hold only one side of an issue (Israelis) accountable while giving the other side (Palestinians) a free pass (even though Palestine is more aggressively homophobic ... but this is a gay pride parade so lets not talk about homophobia or issues that relate directly to those of us in this march). The issue of the artists signing an agreement that limits what they can say only recently came out and was not part of QuAIA's attacks on the committee.

Either this is a GAY pride parade or it is an ANYTHING GOES Parade. There comes a time when you effectively dilute the very point for the event's existence and this is one step in that direction. But of course, you don't care.

Thinking ... try it

Thursday, June 10, 2010 12:58 PM

Marry me, Ken in Paris.

Grant

Thursday, June 10, 2010 1:57 PM

They should go to Gaza via Egypt and have their own Pride there with Hamas or what is stopping them? If this was all about the Rights of Gay Palestinians after all.

Peter from

Thursday, June 10, 2010 2:21 PM

One educational aspect is emerging from all this. In the future, Pride needs to get a better class of people to participate in its events. No one cares about these undistinguished, 4th rate academics, or 3rd rate Grand Marshalls from the past returning their awards. In the future Pride needs to get prominent participants that people have actually heard of for its features.

Noodles

Thursday, June 10, 2010 2:59 PM

@Thinking it came out way b4 QuAIA was even part of this...so first off get your facts straight....and Pride has always been and will always be a platform for any group the pushes for Gay Reform here within Canada and out side Canada....

Gay Pride was born out of homophobia GOD where have you been living....do you know anything about Gay History....because the more you talk the more you show that you do not.....

History lesson 101 for you Thinking it was founded out of the Stonewall Riots(now you do know about that a little think known as homophobia) and by Gay POLITICAL Groups to have a VOICE.....People like you think that Gay Pride is about getting your rocks off...it is far more then that....It is about bridging our community with others and bring our community together in UNITY thus the word COMMUNITY see the word UNITY there......

DJ

Thursday, June 10, 2010 2:06 PM

@Peter is that all you know how to say "They should go to Gaza via Egypt and have their own Pride there with Hamas or what is stopping them? If this was all about the Rights of Gay Palestinians after all."

WOW your a smart man......NOT

DJ

Thursday, June 10, 2010 3:47 PM

bleeeeeeeeeeeting in the background The only reason people are making this such a big issue is because it is the trendy thing to do. So nauseating, when the people who are supposedly all about free speech are actually guilty of censorship and discrimination themselves. YAAAAAAAAWN. So unoriginal really are those that pose. Michelle Walker and Savoy Howe spring to mind. See previous comments.

Tulips that DO speak

Thursday, June 10, 2010 4:25 PM

Let us always return to the basic facts. The two primary requirements for participation in Pride are to be:

(1.) part or supportive of the LGBT community; and,
(2.) law-abiding.

Queers Against Israeli Apartheid (QuAIA) meets both of these requirements.

Singling out one group that meets the requirements and banning its lawful political speech is censorship.

Rick

Thursday, June 10, 2010 4:32 PM

@Rick so true so true so true....Thank you

DJ

Thursday, June 10, 2010 4:31 PM

I do find myself wondering how this new strand of hard core free speech libertarian-fundamentalism will play out next time God Hates Fags' Rev. Fred Phelps or dancehall sensation Elephant Man wish to cross the border. Or is it only Pride Sunday that's a free speech zone? Will the scrotally-encumbered now be able to attend the Dyke March and say a few words to the gals and pals? Will the Gaza Strip Club artists be getting an apology and a fresh tube of Levant Lavender lipstick? Will a crabby old white guy be able to disagree with a person of colour without being called racist by Zarra Dannani? Will Elle Flanders be thrashing in the audience the next time Boston grindcore outfit Anal Cunt or Full Blown AIDS (seriously) plays the Opera House? We'll have to wait and see!

xanderelle

Thursday, June 10, 2010 5:06 PM

xanderelle...what a wonderful name. Well honey, worry no more. Rick has restated PT's rules quite clearly and we can all apply to them to each hypothetical situation you have mentioned.

GaySolomon

Thursday, June 10, 2010 5:23 PM

Let's face it. Leftists only demand freedom of speech for themselves and for their own insane causes. I'm not saying the pro-islamification traitors shouldn't be allowed to spew their toxic message...they should. But you're not fooling any one leftists, you are inherent dictators who don't hesitate to squelch expression on topics you oppose.

ron

Thursday, June 10, 2010 5:49 PM

re: Thinking ... try it it doesn't appear that you've ever been to a Pride march in Toronto at least, or if you have you only stuck around for the corporate floats and ignored the community groups. There has always been LGBT groups protesting other issues that aren't directly LGBT related, always in every Pride march. I don't know where some people get the notion that the only thing Pride is about is partying and maybe some LGBT issues on the side, its about celebrating all in the community and like it or not QuAIA is part of our community as is all the other LGBT groups or organizations protesting or supporting whatever it is they're protesting or supporting whether its a LGBT issue or not.

Its hardly a "new strand of hard core free speech libertarian-fundamentalism", freedom of expression has been a critical right to the LGBT community and has formed the basis of many of our other rights including our right to even have a Pride celebration at all. Our community has been censored by anti-gay bigots and there has always been someone to fight back, now that some in our community and Pride Inc have decided to use the tools of anti-gay bigots there are still those willing to fight back and stand up for what is right, there's nothing new about it at all and no one is arguing for the right of hate groups to spread hate speech either so its hardly "libertarian-fundamentalism" however I do think its important we make connections with free speech advocates on the right to work together on free speech issues together.

Rich

Thursday, June 10, 2010 5:15 PM

Hello from Vancouver,

I got my queer activist feet wet in Toronto in the early 1980s having served on the organizing committee of what was then called Gays and Lesbians at UofT (GLAUT). I'm deeply disheartened, angry and perplexed about Pride Toronto's recent move to censor a group for the use of the words "Israeli apartheid."

I urge you to reconsider and reverse your decision. If not, I feel I have no choice but to never attend another Toronto Pride again.

Please let me know what your intentions are with regard to this serious issue.

Sincerely,

Moffatt Clarke
Vancouver, BC

Moffatt Clarke

Friday, June 11, 2010 12:17 AM

@DJ - typical. You have taken a position and damned be the facts. I will try to make this as simple for you as possible: you said 'Gay Pride was born out of homophobia' - uhm, hello, that's my point. HOMOPHOBIA relates directly to the struggles of the gay and lesbian community. The QuAIA is not only promoting a struggle that is not queer-related, they are also demonizing one side of a conflict with two equally guilty sides (I have never said Israel is without blame in the issues taking place in that region, but unlike you I am also not giving Palestinians a free ride).

@Rick - I am so not interested in your arguments as they have never been founded on the facts. You created a blog which is so one-sided on this issue that you have proven that you take a position and find anything that supports said position. That is not the work of an academic (who studies and from a wealth of information decides upon a position), which I hope is something your professors are aware of. Pride is about a celebration, because we've come a long way. It is also about gay rights, and pushing to see that others in this city, country, world are also recognized as human beings even if they are queer. And there are struggles, from Uganda to Poland to North Bay to Scarborough that gays are still facing. Of course, you'd rather demonize Israel and ignore that plight of gay Palestinians and other Middle Easterners who are persecuted, abused and killed for the sexuality. Yeah, sorry, but I think those issues are more pride specific than that which QuAIA is insisting on. But again, these issues - as gay specific as they are - are not cool enough for you to support?

Thinking ... try it

Friday, June 11, 2010 12:01 AM

How come whenever I see Rich's posts I hear the sound of nails down a chalk board?

Damian

Friday, June 11, 2010 12:48 AM

DJ, you talk about UNITY. You even bolded the word. How is this group creating a sense of UNITY? As well, you would be okay if an Israeli group marched under the banner: Queer Israelis against Palestinian Murder and Abuse of Gays and Lesbians?

Damian

Friday, June 11, 2010 12:55 AM

Thinking, try it... no, really, try it. How have you measures that all sides are equally to blame? Equally is a point is a point in a measure that is so difficult to achieve to almost be impossible. So, what kind of research and analisis did you go through to reach "equally". It couldn't have been the situation of palestinians vis a vis israelis. It couldn't be the number of civilian deaths, because then Israel would be more to blame. It couldn't be that palestinians are consistently stealing Israeli land, because that isn't the case, just the opposite, Israel continues to take palestinian land. It couldn't be that when it appeared that Obama was going to force a peace agreement both sides responded equally. The Israeli side started to say they couldn't be forced into peace while the palestian side appeared, granted basic international perception of what is just in such agreement, be willing to take that. It couldn't be that while they both are constantly upsetting each other by throwing missiles that usually fall on empty spaces on the side of palestinians, killing children who throw rocks on teh side of settlers and the army who are very trigger friendly, it is the palestinians who respond disproportionally. Operation cast led was just a disgusting show of just how much more guilty and how less respect it has for human life (at least in practice - I dont' care if Hamas would do it if they could, since in practice they are not capable of doing it and are never going to be able to do it). It couldn't be that Hamas refuses to negotiate with Israel as they have been open about their willingness to negotiate but Israel won't talk to its enemies (who else do you make peace with except your enemies). There is no demonization here, any unbiased person can see that Israel is more to blame. Not only in quality and quantity but because it claims to be just like us, to be a democratic state, and because it has a type of state power with institutions that Hamas doesn't have. If I thought they were the same, I would still Israel is more aggressive, but given that they are not, all I see is Israel being trigger happy, aggressive, racist and scalating the conflict to levels rarely seen. Not even the US would bomb a large part of a country like lebanon because someone attacked and killed a few of its soldiers. Israel demonizes itself.

Tam

Friday, June 11, 2010 6:11 AM

For those of you not aware of the fact, Tim McCaskell - one of the main "gay leaders" who is also close to Xtra staffers and one of the main leftist organizers for any and everything against Israel, used to have a poster in his home with a gun-sight aimed at a Jewish Star. This was long before the Intifadas, long before Lebanon or Gaza, ... so the question is worth asking. A gun-sight aimed at a Jewish Star? Is there an image that could be MORE anti-Semitic in nature? Yet McCaskell will try and tell you that he is only pro-Palestinian. Nevertheless, pro-Palestinian also means being pro-Hamas... which has directly in its Charter statements that encourage the killing of Jews (not just Israelis, Jews!) and which quotes the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion". This is the most anti-Semitic document of the last 150 years, and was even quoted by Hitler in Mein Kampf. Oh, and by the way, the Protocols are a hoax...but Hamas is using them to foment hatred of Jews everywhere. And THESE are the people McCaskell and QAIA are supporting? Maybe it is time for people to begin to ask questions as to just who these "leaders of the gay community" are, and what it is they are really supporting. Hamas would kill gays, Israel gives Palestinian gays refuge. Which of these two should a PRIDE parade be supporting more? Hmmm? Gee, what a difficult question. But QAIA ar professional manipulators. That isn't a reason for everyone to jump on their bandwagon without any knowledge of FACTS!

Ken in Paris

Friday, June 11, 2010 9:39 AM

Ken, I am afraid that you will have to explain how you came about this "fact". I somehow doubt that you are a close friend of this guy Tim McCaskell, that would mean to me that you are highly unlikely to have been to his house. Even had you been to his house, your obvious bias towards him would make you suspicious, but it all points out to you never having been to his house. If someone told you, let me remind you that some idiot here said QuAIA was going to bomb to Pride Toronto, because he heard so. It seems there are a bunch of rabid paranoids out there making up stories. There is no way for us to ensure that this is a "fact". You have been trying to discredit the organization for months, you are thus not a credible anything. Let's assume for a second someone that someone saw a picture, they interpreted, they then told someone, then they told someone else and then you got it... I'd like to see a picture of it Ken, in his livingroom with him having coffee in the morning and saying that this is his house, then we can speak of a "fact" and I can see for myself what picture you are referring to.

Tam

Friday, June 11, 2010 10:24 AM

Wow, Tam, you really need to a) stop rambling. It is hard to follow your argument at the best of times. b) do some research and tell me how 'reasonable' Hamas is in the peace talks. c) Consider, in this context (GAY pride) Palestine's abuse of gay and lesbian individuals in that country.

You will do none of the above, of course. You will ramble, make a few snotty comments, and leave the argument no further along.

Once again you have decided knee-jerk politics is easier as it requires less thinking. This is not a black and white issue, stop pretending this is a battle between ultimate good and ultimate evil. Neither side has clean hands.

To the matter at hand: to allow a group to openly antagonize others at a Pride parade, on an issue that is not about gay rights, would be irresponsible in the least. Once again, were this group about tolerance in the middle east no one would have a problem with them marching.

Thinking ... try it

Friday, June 11, 2010 10:49 AM

@Ken ______________________________________ as you can see nothing to say to you as you make up stories and have yet to put down any any facts......

DJ

Friday, June 11, 2010 3:53 PM

Thinking, What can I say... that you can't follow my argument just reflects on your abilities.

zezi

Friday, June 11, 2010 3:05 PM

Um, zezi, or Tam ... how many nicknames do you use on this site? It is a little disingenuous to pretend to be different people in hopes of buttressing support for your opinion. Shame on you.

As well, what did I say you would do? you won't answer specific question, you will ramble, make a few snotty comments, and leave the argument no further along. Well, you didn't ramble (thank the gods!), but you made a snotty comment and didn't answer some very specific questions. Typical.

Thinking ... try it

Friday, June 11, 2010 5:23 PM

Thinking... I had no trouble at all following Tam/zezi's posts, I think the problem is on your end. Anyways you're very confused, the issue isn't about Israel or Palestine or Hamas or anything else having to do with that region and its problem. The issue at hand is that LGBT folks are being censored by Pride Inc. That's it, it doesn't matter who is more right or more wrong in Israel and the occupied territories, what matters is that perfectly legal political speech is being censored because Gladstone and his followers blackmailed Pride Inc into doing so, they've been doing their best to attack Pride and get its funding pulled not just from the city but from all the sponsors as well, they very nearly succeeded in reducing Pride to whatever could be done for free largely because Pride Inc refused to fight back and just rolled over though not quite quick enough for Gladstone. They even admitted that QuAIA's messages weren't anti-semitic or hate speech but still insisted that they be censored because they felt "uncomfortable" hearing the term Israeli apartheid. Well if everyone who was uncomfortable with something at Pride got their way the parade would have been reduced to just a handful of corporate floats and little else long ago. There'd be no nudists, no drag queens or kings, no leather men, nothing sexually provocative at all, it be safe to take all the little kiddies too just like the Santa Claus parade. Well Pride is supposed to be a reflection of and celebration of the LGBT community in Toronto and whether you like it or not that includes QuAIA and free expression which has been so critical to our community, perhaps more so than any other community in Canada due to all the censorship attempts we've had to fight just to be ourselves in public. So go ahead and complain about how wrong QuAIA is, the fact is it doesn't matter one bit, free expression isn't just for those everyone agrees with, there'd be no need in those cases since everyone agrees but it is needed for controversial groups like QuAIA who many disagree with just like when freedom of expression protected LGBT folks in the past when most everyone was against us, and don't expect people to debate you on issues that have nothing to do with censorship in Toronto, its pointless and a waste of time so why bother.

Rich

Friday, June 11, 2010 6:02 PM

@ Damian I just saw your post where you said "How come whenever I see Rich's posts I hear the sound of nails down a chalk board?" Thanks! I take that as a compliment considering where its coming from.

Rich