Friday, June 4, 2010 4:33 PM

why was QuAIA ok with trying to censor Gaza Strip Club, but railing for free speech now?

Unfortunately, this confirms many people' suspicions that although some QuAIA members mean well, there are too many who are seeking attention and more interested in self-promotion.

B.

Friday, June 4, 2010 4:33 PM

Tracey? Is that you?

S.

Friday, June 4, 2010 4:09 PM

Easy: because "Gaza Strip Club" is mocking the plight of 1.5 million people who have been made impoverished by Israeli Apartheid.

S.

Friday, June 4, 2010 4:56 PM

Its great that former Toronto Pride awards receipients are coming to the aid of QuAIA's ongoing feud with Pride Toronto. However, to the hundreds of thousands of visitors who take in the Pride week festivities every year and pump money into the local economy, none of them will care. They're here for a good time and we welcome their tourism dollars, as Im sure members of Church and Wellesley's BIA does too.

Steve

Friday, June 4, 2010 4:21 PM

Xtra:
Pls confirm that it was ACTUAL members of QuAIA that protested the Gaza Strip Club event and not just self appointed members of the public wanting to protest the event.

Just because individuals are either pro or anti whatever, does not mean they are automatically members of official groups despite having similar politics.

"B " - Please prove that your statement is accurate, and not just another baseless assumption ... a very common occurrence this days.

and QuAIA? A statement on the accuracy of the above accusation?

an observer

Friday, June 4, 2010 5:18 PM

S.,

And freedom of speech doesn't apply to mocking, right? Or perhaps it just doesn't apply to mocking the plight of over a million people? Or maybe only to mocking the victims of "Israeli Apartheid"?

D.

Friday, June 4, 2010 5:33 PM

Headline?

What is a Massive Queer Braintrust? Sounds like the name of an aging punk band. It's a bit colourful but also seems like xtra is grasping at straws. why not just write an editorial stating your support for QuAIA instead of using one-sided reports? Xtra keeps castigating Pride for not taking a stand against critics of QuAIA but has failed to take a direct one itself. Why be cowardly? Afraid of offending advertisers or readers?

confused

Friday, June 4, 2010 6:22 PM

observer, there was an article at the time that specifically named Andrew Brett and QuAIA as protesting outside Gaza Strip club, along with some quotes. We all know Andrew, so perhaps he could shed some light on why that censorship was ok and the current one is not.

No, I'm not Tracey. Nothing would make me happier than to see the entire pride board including Mark "Conflict of Interest" Singh and Tracey "Didn't Know what she was getting into" go down. This battle for free speech, but I don't think QuAIA is the group to lead the charge. Do they ever do anything besides protest?

I don't believe Gaza Strip club was mocking anything. Even if it was, why was censoring them ok but not when the tables are turned? We have free speech or we don't. If having opposition means you should go away or be silenced, QuAIA doesn't have a leg to stand on.

B.

Friday, June 4, 2010 6:02 PM

re: confused Xtra and its publisher Pink Triangle Press (PTP) have both already come out against censorship at Pride in the form of various editorials and a statement from PTP. PTP has fought censorship attempts in court before and have won, they have a long history of opposing censorship. You do not have to actually support what QuAIA stands for to support their right to free speech. If you haven't read seen any editorials or statements from Xtra and PTP its because you haven't been reading the paper or its online version, just because they didn't inform you personally of their stand doesn't mean they haven't taken one. Our community wouldn't be as free and diverse if it wasn't for those like PTP standing up for free expression no matter the cost and taking the fight as far as it had to go to win our freedom of expression and stop the censorship of the LGBT community. Pride Inc rolled over without even putting up the slightest resistance to those demanding they censor QuAIA unlike our community leaders in past situations where queer folks faced censorship. They failed the community miserably and unlike those refusing or returning their past honours from Pride the current board of Pride Inc could never even come close to qualifying for such awards themselves because of their total lack of spine and character. They should not just be putting on an event but safeguarding the values that define what Pride is and what has made it a special and unique event otherwise it risks becoming just a gay music festival of no importance except for the money it rakes in for its sponsors. I firmly believe if Pride in the future is to survive as something meaningful there will need to be serious changes in the way the board of Pride Inc is both selected and operates otherwise it will degenerate into the Church St music festival regardless of what its called. Pride is not just a name of some event that happens every year, its something special that reflects the entire LGBT community in Toronto and censorship has no place in it.

Rich

Friday, June 4, 2010 6:28 PM

In the interest of freedom of speech I hope anyone who has received an award from Pride stands up this year and returns it with a loud thud.

Jon

Friday, June 4, 2010 7:13 PM

Won't it be great when all queers in this great country have equal rights and protections under the law? Won't it be great if someone discriminates against us and we would have some sort of legal recourse to deal with it? Won't it be great when being gay is not a punishable offence? What's that you say? We already have all that? Yahoo! Let's celebrate!

Jason

Friday, June 4, 2010 7:57 PM

Rich: Thank you for your unambiguous response about xtra's position on the Pride-QuAIA conflict. I appreciate this sort of directness and hope to read a similar statement in your next issue. But is it really necessary to dismiss the board of Pride as "totally lacking in spine and character"? And can it not be possible to debate what Pride's values are? It seems those who pushed to have QuAIA banned were also arguing from what they believed were the values at the heart of Pride. The film was called Reclaiming Pride or something like that. Is it not possible that there are divergent views on what Pride's values are, and is there really a need for this to devolve into personal attacks and cheapshots?

Confused

Friday, June 4, 2010 8:33 PM

Israel vs. Palestine: two groups, driven by history and delusions of sky-gods, committing unfathomable horrors upon each other, pointing to the other's atrocities, and claiming to be the victim.

"Queers Against Israeli Apartheid" is not commentary on this ugly affair, it is a *part* of it, and I am happy to see it find no place in our Pride parade.

It's called Pride, not Blame.

D.

Friday, June 4, 2010 8:38 PM

Given centuries-old divisions between Muslim people and Jewish people, I wouldn't be surprised if former grand marshals of the Islamic faith (e.g., 2005 grand marshal Salah Bachir and 2009 co-grand marshal El-Farouk Khaki) renounce their awards in support of QuAIA and its anti-Israel campaign. Since QuAIA is currently the most important cause of the gay Left, I wouldn't be surprised if a very large number of past award recipients renounce their honours for community service (since a very large number of past recipients seem to have been members of the gay Left who work in the LGBT community, rather than "middle of the road" people or right wing people who earn their living outside the community). I assume QuAIA spokesperson Tim McCaskell (one of 8 grand marshals honoured in 1997 for their work in the Toronto education system) will renounce his award. Since Svend Robinson (one of two grand marshals in 1988) was very anti-Israel as a NDP MP and loves publicity, I wouldn't be surprised if he shows up to give back his prize. Still, I hope the National Post doesn't draw a comparison to how Robinson had to give back an expensive ring he stole during a difficult period in his life. http://www.citizenscentre.com/news04-06-21-np.html

Craig

Friday, June 4, 2010 9:19 PM

re: Confused, I agree there are divergent and different values associated with Pride, however censorship has never been one of them. Free expression is the corner stone right upon which all of our other rights have been built. LGBT folks were and still are in some sectors of society viewed as obscene by folks who genuinely hold that belief and who consider their opposition to anything LGBT a value they hold dear to their hearts. They are allowed to hold those beliefs but not to censor any expression of LGBT sexuality no matter how obscene they view it because of those who stood up to them and fought their attempts at censorship. Pride exists because LGBT folks refused to stay hidden and quiet to appease those, who in the early years was most of society, who didn't approve of our sexuality and especially disapproved of it being expressed in any public way. This is no different, there is room in Pride for differing values and beliefs but that can only happen if they are allowed to be expressed. If in the past LGBT folks had accepted censorship there would be no Pride today for anyone and we wouldn't be enjoying the equality rights we have today. Btw the way the film was called "Reclaiming Our Pride" meaning their own Pride and no one elses, people have attacked QuAIA by claiming they aren't gay focused enough but the same is way more true about the anti-QuAIA side who is made up primarily of Israeli activists, some gay some hetero, as opposed to gay activists, they weren't very concerned about Pride since they were doing their best to get Pride defunded and to get sponsors to stop sponsoring Pride at all, their view was its our way or no one gets to have a funded Pride, if they were truly gay activists they wouldn't have been attacking Pride, everyone's Pride, in an effort to get their own way. Freedom of expression has always been at the heart of Pride since the very first one when they were protesting the bath house raids, they were protesting the attack on their expression of their sexuality. Freedom of expression has always been at the heart of Pride, to come along now and claim that freedom of expression has nothing to do with Pride is to deny the history or Pride. Those opposed to QuAIA have always been permitted to express their beliefs and they have done so, no one has argued that the anti-QuAIA contingent shouldn't be allowed to march, their freedom of expression has been protected, its only fair the same be done for QuAIA and that both be allowed to air their beliefs and views in a legal manner. You may consider a cheap shot and personal attack when I said the board of Pride Inc was totally lacking in spine and character but from my point of view that's a fair assessment of them and not a cheap shot at all, personally I feel I'm being reserved since I haven't resorted to name calling or said what I really think of them in harsher words. Besides compared to what the anti-QuAIA side has been saying about them, calling them a hate group, anti-semites, bigots, terrorist supporters and so on what I have to say about them or the board of Pride Inc pales in comparison. Personally I believe QuAIA should sue Martin Gladstone for defamation for that video which was full of lies and distortions. Regardless divergent views on what Pride is and what people believe or support should continue to be presented to the community through those marching in the parade but that means everyone's views and not just those who are able to threaten Pride Inc into censoring others with whom they disagree. If QuAIA had ever used hate speech I would support banning them but they never have done so, they are very specific in what they criticize about Israel, they don't blame Jews or attack Jews, their focus is strictly on Israeli policy towards the Palestinians. QuAIA is nothing more than a human rights group protesting Israeli policy, that's it. It doesn't matter either which side is right or more right than the other side concerning what is happening over there, that doesn't matter what does matter is that one side went out of its way to ensure that Pride as we know it would never happen again unless QuAIA was censored by Pride Inc. That's not just an attack on QuAIA but on Pride itself, how is that a legitimate Pride value? Pride Inc should have stood up for Pride and free expression for everyone, the fact that they didn't even put up any resistance at all really does mean that they are totally lacking in spines and character as I see it, sorry if you think that's being nasty but I can't think of any nicer way to say that. Anyways I've been all over the map here and am now going to go eat, have a good evening.

Rich

Friday, June 4, 2010 9:31 PM

sorry for such a long post, its mostly a recap of my previous posts anyways, sometimes I get writing and forget to be concise. I'll try to be more concise in the future since I know no one wants to read such long posts.

Rich

Friday, June 4, 2010 10:38 PM

I think we have lost something all through this..... This has nothing really if you look at it to do with QuAIA it has more to do with being told what to do with our event..... Giorgio Mammoliti announce that he was going to City Hall to have funding pulled if Pride Toronto did not Ban QuAIA...It was a game of chicken and Pride Toronto blinked way before the vote was even done.... Now either way if you feel QuAIA has no right to be in the event or if you feel they should be in the event really does not matter...what matter more and is what is so scary a straight man Giorgio Mammoliti who does not care about gay rights or our community(voted against gay marriage and other gay rights) is telling us who can and can not be in our event.... Think about it if Pride Toronto would of said "you know what Giorgio Mammoliti fine we will cancel this years event and you Giorgio Mammoliti can explain why the City lost over one million visitors and why the City lost all that Revenue"....do you think he would still have any support.... Giorgio Mammoliti has not fought for any gay rights but he is sure as hell trying to take them away...and if we do not ban together as a community we will loose everything we have fought for all these years this is what truly is the bottom line of this whole thing...

All this is the fault of Pride Toronto for not standing up to homophobes like Giorgio and Giorgio Mammoliti who has vote against everything gay in his career.....these are the ones that need to be taken down....Pride Toronto board has distory what it stood for and Giorgio Mammoliti who could not even care about gay right....this has put a black cloud over Pride 2010...

Instead of us going after each other about if QuAIA should or should not be in the parade we should be working to fire all members of Pride Toronto and elect a new board....and work our hardest to make sure Giorgio Mammoliti can not get a post in government ever again...that is what we should be doing.....

DJ

Friday, June 4, 2010 10:17 PM

Nothing in the fabmag coverage of QuAIA picketing the Gaza Strip Club even comes close to "censorship" -- as QuAIA is a far as I can tell, QuAIA is a grassroots community group with no power to "censor" anybody. They were handing out some leaflets to raise awareness about an issue that matters to them, not calling for anyone or anything to be consored -- hardly what any reasonable person would call "censorship".

And Craig, before repeated trite platitudes about "centuries-old divisions" between Muslims and Jews, please check your history. Before the colonial project in British Palestine (less than a century ago), the two communities were characterised by far less hostility than (for example) each of them got from Christian Europe. Similarly, D., they are much less "driven by history" than by the geopolitics of empire (witness the newfound Israeli fondness for evangelical Christians).

David

Friday, June 4, 2010 10:39 PM

threatening to have buddies' funding pulled over an event sounds like censorship to me

especially because Pride is in the similar position. They were doing a LOT more than handing out leaflets. I agree that they have no power which makes this whole kerfuffle ridiculous.

I started out on QuAIA's side, bur have come to believe they've hijacked pride for their own gain, in true amateur activist fashion. I will continue to fight against pride toronto but not on behalf of QUAIA

B.

Friday, June 4, 2010 11:16 PM

QuAIA is no longer the issue here. It's about the right of LGBT people to march in the parade. I am proud of these honourable people coming out on Monday in favour of free speech and against censorship.

AK

Friday, June 4, 2010 11:47 PM

David, I would welcome a source for your statement above about "far less hostility" (i.e., Jews and Muslims in Palestine got along fine until the British came along in 1917). Since you present yourself as a historian and lecturer, I'm sure that you can provide it.

Craig

Saturday, June 5, 2010 12:12 PM

I'm still trying to get over the equation of "18 former grand marshals, honored dykes and awards recipients" with a "Massive queer braintrust."

If that's true, our community is in DEEP trouble.

abbie

Saturday, June 5, 2010 2:19 PM

you progressive types are sooo blind and shallow

Isreal wants peace, thats why they keep giving back land etc, thats why its ok to be queer, or arab living in Israel.

Palestine wants .... wait for it ..

exactly, theyre not saying, because they have progressives doing their bidding

the day Palestinians say 'ok lets have a country here, and here are our neighbours', is the day of peace

not babies that cry for some mythical past while hanging on welfare saying they are oppressed

get real, sorry

what about Iranian democracy or ANY other issue in the world

arent you interested in more than one issue?

no, just Israel

what about fact that Isreal just tried to pass through the aid, but Hama stopped it??

thats the point, proxy sufferers

better get it people or very soon YOUR right to be cool goes away


the parade should not be hijacked by anyone outside its politics-neutral mandate, duh

uhuh

Saturday, June 5, 2010 2:47 PM

claiming this is a freedom of speech issue is such a FAIL

if an open party makes itself known as pro this or pro that, aside from its original jurisdiction, then that polarizes things further and a certain percentage of your followers/attendees will dissent - thats not what they joined for

if they object, it isnt *your* freedom of speech at stake, you turn it around wrongly

it is *their* freedom to dis-associate with what may be your incorrect notions of history or fuzzy justice

point - dont wrap yourself in the flag of freedom to jam your brochure in my face please!!

but talk about whatever you want, I go now

uhuh

Saturday, June 5, 2010 8:07 PM

@uhuh you could not be more wrong... sorry to say....if you as a group are told you can not have someone coming to your Church (for example) and say it is to talk about black history....and some person who has NOTHING to do with your Church NEVER gone and does not even believe in your faith.....but you are told that if you let this go on you will lost your right to be a none tax Church any more....you then would claim that you are loosing your freedom of speech right!!....well this is the same thing there is no difference..... so Yes we are loosing our Freedom UHUH and Yes we wrap ourselves in the Flag in fact two flags .....one of the our COUNTRY'S AND OUR RAINBOW FLAG AND WE DO THAT WITH PRIDE....

DJ

Sunday, June 6, 2010 2:34 AM

David, I would welcome a source for your statement above about "far less hostility" (i.e., Jews and Muslims in Palestine got along fine until the British came along in 1917). Since you present yourself as a historian and lecturer, I'm sure that you can provide it.

Do your own damn research. It's called Google. Check it out.

Queers against censorship

Sunday, June 6, 2010 7:48 AM

Who cares? Pride parades are too political anyways, filled with a bunch of whiny activists and hundreds of centrist or right wing straights who could give a rats about gay issues in the world, because they're just there to advertise. YAWN. Just wait until the party is over and go out for the real fun in the evening. Keep your damn family, advertisements, and stupid irrelevant political causes at home.

AK

Sunday, June 6, 2010 10:59 AM

DJ you can come to my church to promote say black history, no problem. You just cant change the name of my church so it becomes the black history church, understood? The former is inclusive, the latter is not. A church should be inclusive, as Pride should be, not just for those that think it fashionable to be anti Israel (or anti truth).

uhuh

Sunday, June 6, 2010 1:50 PM

As an outsider I have always view Canada in as an openly diverse, safe, protected society. As a visiting tourist I look forward to Toronto Pride with excitement. But the actions and venum from QuAIA reveal a most repugnant underbelly of hate. Blackmailing, boycotting, and shaming coersion tactics are the venues of homophobes. You have evolved into the enemy of our historic past the we (GLBT) have vowed to overcome. How embarrassing that those people that the GLBT community bestowed such grand honours are lingering proof of poor judgement. The return of your honours and testimonials is greatly welcomed, so the GLBT community can erase the connections with such vile, disreputable people. Highly honoured representatives turning against those that bestowed the testimonials sound familiar? Think of the elections by the people of Germany of the Nazis. Germany people=kind : Nazis=bad. GLBT people=kind : QuAIA=bad. Toronto now has the chance to clean house and do the right thing: that is, let them do their worst but hold yourselves to a higher, more digified standard. ALL MY SUPPORT AND MONEY TO TORONTO PRIDE. To QuAIA I sever all connections.

yooper from Michigan

Sunday, June 6, 2010 3:10 PM

"Queers against censorship" wrote: "Do your own damn research. It's called Google. Check it out." In response, it's OK if you can't find a source for the previous statements. It must be embarrassing for you. I understand your anger. Happy Pride!

Craig

Sunday, June 6, 2010 4:30 PM

@uhuh show how much of a asshole you are you have no clue about anything .... asshole like you are the ones behind the problem....just go back to what your good at NOTHING

DJ

Sunday, June 6, 2010 4:07 PM

This is what happens when you dilute your message. By allowing people to vent their religious or political opinions rather than celebrate the gay and lesbian community and its contributions to society as a whole, you allow them to hijack your party. There should be only ONE statement in any Pride parade - "we're here, we're queer, we're proud and we're not going away". How did Israel and Palestine get mixed up in this? Bet I know. Quick question: How many dykes does it take to ruin a parade?

Mark

Thursday, June 10, 2010 10:23 AM

@yooper from Michigan: This from a person who has no gay rights in his country....where in the State of Georgia you can be fired from your job for being gay....where in San Francisco you have lost more and more gay right....So please come enjoy see what true freedom of Gay Pride is...and remember when your enjoying the events It was Canada and other countries other then the USA that moved forward Gay right... you may of had the Stonewall Riots and a few other things...but that is where it end....Gay Pride is political and that is how Canada made it Changes to this country....it does not matter if you like or dislike QuAIA or any one else in the event it is all about speaking your mind and standing up for what you believe....you call the USA the home of the free and land of the brave....I lived there for 18 years and the only thing it stood for was U Screw All....

DJ