Monday, April 19, 2010

City will 'likely' fund Pride Toronto in 2010; future cash in jeopardy

Buried in the last line of the Toronto Star's take on the Pride Toronto-City of Toronto stalemate: "Pride will likely" receive the same amount of city funding in 2010 as it did in 2009. That strikes me as strange, considering that the headline is "City may cut Pride funding over 'Israeli apartheid' marchers." The city cash hasn't been doled out yet, so bureaucrats can't guarentee if a group will be funded, but this is the most positive language yet to come out of city hall on the issue.



There is, however, a "warning" from city staff, related to 2011. From a senior bureaucrat, Mike Williams:

“We have the right to disqualify them from future grants, so we certainly would look at that,” he said. Characterizing his message as a “strong warning,” he added: “Every circumstance is different, so I’m loath to tell somebody flat out, ‘If this happens you won’t get your money next year,’ but it sure would become a very strong possibility.”

Meanwhile, the Ontario Legislature's condemnation of student-led Israeli Apartheid Week is being used as justification for the city's handwringing over Queers Against Israeli Apartheid. Did the province, as a response, cut off funding to the University of Ottawa for failing to suppress IAW? Well, no, right? 

 

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Comments

Monday, April 19, 2010 9:08 AM

QAIA has 364 days of the year to spout its Anti-Israeli claptrap (I say "claptrap" because they are completely biased and turn a total blind eye to Hamas' openly anti-Semitic Charter and Palestinian attacks for 20 years on civilian populations... either you condemn both sides or you explain why not...)
There is therefore no possible reason for them to be USURPING OUR day for THEIR agenda!
Why should a group that has NOTHING to do with GAYS(except to excoriate the ONE state that actually defends gay rights!)be allowed to disrupt the entire Pride parade? It is a question of PRIORITIES. Don't be fooled by the "free speech" blather... if a group called White Males Against PC Bullshit or, more to the point, a group called Stop Murderous Palestinian Terrorists wanted to march, do you REALLY think the "free-speechers" would be defending them too? Don't kid yourselves!

Let the QIAI go rabble-rouse someone else's festival.
Pride day is NOT the right time and place for them.

Ken in Paris fr


Monday, April 19, 2010 11:22 AM

It is illogical that QAIA protests the only gay friendly state in the Middle East during GAY PRIDE. If anything, this group should be protesting the Arab nations that hang gays in public squares like Iran. Israel loves the gays and even allows them to serve in the military.

Pride Toronto needs to keep this group and its questionable politics from injecting Pride with holy war hate, when the country they're protesting supports LGBTs.

Parker ca


Monday, April 19, 2010 3:40 PM

Dear Ken, I don't know what is happening in Paris, but I don't see how OUR Pride in TORONTO is YOUR day. How about we keep QaIA because they are spousing a legitimate opinion in a very complicated matter and it is THEIR day and not YOURS. They are members of our community. Many are members of the Jewish community. So, you and Parker claiming that they are having holy wars of hate is ridiculous. I see their position as sophisticated. Yes, the Muslim world has a terrible record of queer rights. QaIA want the muslim world to stop persecuting queers and for Israel to stop stealing land from Palestinians and bombing them like they bombed Gaza and Lebanon and to have real equal rights for everyone. How about Israel gets a constitution? You defenders of its democracy ... what do you think? Shouldn't a democracy have a constitution that guarantees equal rights to everyone? Israel doesn't have one... why?

zezi ca


Monday, April 19, 2010 3:57 PM

Many contingents in the Pride parade celebrate activities that are not directly related -- or that are not at all related -- to "LGBT issues." Singing, dancing, the outdoors, religious denominations, corporate enterprises, etc. -- many come to mind. Pride is about advancing LGBT issues, yes, but it's also about diversity within the LGBT community and the many contributions made to wider society by members of the LGBT community. The group Queers Against Israeli Apartheid (QuAIA) is, at the very least, a group of LGBT people (hence "Queer") working on a particular political issue. Beyond that, the political issue -- Israeli apartheid -- is easily understood as an LGBT issue for various reasons. For example, Israel does not extend full equality rights to all LGBT people within the boundaries it controls -- and yet Israel promotes itself as a bastion of liberal democracy and tolerance/acceptance. It's bullshit. Personally, I'm not going to let Israel use my oppression -- i.e., the oppression of LGBT people -- as a PR tool to distract us all from its flagrant human rights violations. On the other side of Israel's apartheid wall, LGBT people suffer immensely. So, to Israel I say: TEAR DOWN THE WALL, QUEER LIBERATION NOW! QuAIA has an excellent FAQ available at: http://queersagainstapartheid.org/faq/

Rick ca


Monday, April 19, 2010 3:38 PM

@zezi

What's your point the QuAIA is not a Gay rights Group but a Anti Israel Group and Zezi Canada or does Germany or Israel not have a constitution and Zezi Israel has something that run on Basic Laws(www.knesset.gov.il/.../...mimshal_yesod1.htm)(Note guarantees equal rights to everyone www.knesset.gov.il/.../basic3_eng.htm) and in Canada we don't have a formal document as a constitution either but a series of acts that we call the constitution its not one document and if the QuAIA claims that [quote]they want stop the muslim world to stop persecuting queers/quote] then why do they only single out Israel when it has LGBT rights and even allows Gay Palestinians into Israel because its illegal in Palestinians Areas under Palestinian Law to be gay? interesting I think the City of Toronto also found that the QuAIA broke anti-discrimination laws too which is rather interesting but was not hard to see how they did even if they want to under the freedom of Speech card

Charles ca


Monday, April 19, 2010 3:50 PM

Charles, QaIA is a queer group. Thus, the name "queers". It is made up of queer people... I don't understand why you don't think it is a queer group. What part of queer people associating for a cause don't you understand? We in Canada have constitution acts and a charter of rights and freedoms. Your links are useless, nothing came up, please provide the correct links. Look, I come from another country in which my people oppressed other people. There was a constitution, but no one paid attention to it... and we were bombed, were kidnapped, we were threatened, etc.... I don't see why that would stop a group from defending indigenous rights in my country. I don't see why oppossing such barbarian actions as the bombing of Lebanon or Gaza (how many thousands dead) is one sided when at the other side you have rocks and crappy missiles that usually only make a whole on a farm. It would seem unjust to give equal weight to the kidnapping of one Israeli when there are so many Palestinian children in Israeli prisons. You might disagree with me but I truly believe that the day Israel withdraws to it legally recognized borders and allows the Palestinians to have a state without interfererence the war will be over. I am, and QaIA are, entitled to our opinions.

zezi ca


Monday, April 19, 2010 4:58 PM

"Either you condemn both sides or you explain why not..."

There's an important reason to condemn one side primarily. Although both sides may be wrong, only one (Israel) gets favorable treatment from Western governments.

Activists correctly seek to end this favorable treatment. But when they condemn "both sides," that is used (by both sides) as a pretext to change NOTHING. As a result, while "both sides" may be equally deserving of criticism, as a practical matter, if we want to actually accomplish the above goal, we must condemn one side in particular -- the same side that happily avails itself of favorable, one-sided treatment from the Western establishment.

Jack ca


Monday, April 19, 2010 4:59 PM

@zezi
So has the United States in Latin America or Hawaii and I see no Queer group opposing them such as in Panama were the US Military killed 4000 civilians who had nothing to do with the government or when War in Iraq and tens of thousands have been killed of the United States or even in Hawaii under international law its considered a Occupied Territory and no Queer groups against that either. Turkey has killed 10,000 Kurdish civilians in their conflict with the Kurd's or even in Northern Cyprus which under international turkey is illegally occupying and both countries have done a a lot worse. The QuAIA might have gay members but its not a gay rights group since its only bashes Israel and is the only country in the Middle East with Gay rights and Gay Palestinians are forced into Israel because its illegal under Palestinians Law and Palestinian children in Israeli prisons do you mean all those 40+ year old who tried to blow themselves up on Israeli Buses or the Children who fire rockets into Israeli Cities and they are just children? many 30, 40+ year old. Really maybe if Palestinians learn to love their children instead of using for suicide bombers we might get somewhere. Either way Zezi is a act of war and a violation of international law to send suicide bombers or fire rocket into another country and even Judge Gladstone even thinks that as well and not to mention that some of your members just blame Jews or Jewish Groups for all their problems which kind of reminds me of the KKK then a Gay Rights group since they do the same. Zezi I think Hamas or PLO might be a better place for the Queer loons known as the QuAIA, but Hamas or the PLO might lock up you since Homosexuality is illegal under Palestinian Law and the QuAIA isn't a Gay Rights group but maybe a bunch of Queer loons you would support people that would kill us for who we are kind of group and this group has nothing to with Gay Rights when its only bashing Israel or blaming it for all its problems ans I'm really happy that the City of Toronto see this and even the hate that comes from this group

Charles ca


Monday, April 19, 2010 4:32 PM

The thing is Charles, I oppose the US interference in Latin America, Iraq, etc. I also oppose US military aid to Israel. I am surprised you haven't seen all the people in Pride who oppose the war in Iraq or Darfur or who come out against racism. You know, the queer conservatives are not spousing, necessarily, any queer issue, but they get to march. If the Hawaians did not have the rights of every other American citizen, say... to become PRESIDENT... they were not allowed to build in their land, they were constantly harrassed by American settlers, if any conflict resulted in state of the art missiles sent to civilian areas, I would could it apartheid... can you tell the difference? I mean because you are calling QaIA loons and your arguments and your analogies are ridiculous. Can you even see it clearly? The Americans would likely let the Puerto Ricans leave if they voted to become a nation onto themselves. Do the Hawaiians want independence? Maybe they are treated better... you think? What you are arguying is that because we are queer and we are discriminated against by Hamasa and other crazy fundamentalists (who have only been empowered, btw, by the US actions in the region) we should want them all dead... or at the very least, we shouldn't care about the basic human rights of all palestinians... are you insane? Doesn't that mean that palestinians who are gay would have no basic human rights? That people who never took a stand on the issue or who could under different circumstances move ahead to more progressive views would have no rights? Would you like to live your life the way a Palestinian has to live their lives? You say if Palestian people loved their children enough.... what? to just roll over and die? Wouldn't that solve Israel's problem? I say, if Israel loved its children enough they would sincerely look for peace, which means stop the settlements and go back to internationally recognized borders. That way, their kids won't have to be raised in a militarized society, they won't have to fear for their lives... because then, there will be peace. Still Charles, you haven't argued that the war wouldn't be over if Israel actually was willing to compromise for peace. Can we agree then at least that Israel hasn't really been making an effort? You also have not sent any links that actually work that show that Israel guarantees equality for all its citizens... even better, show me it does, because a little of research and I can fill a page with Israeli newspaper articles that discuss how it doesn't treat its citizens as equals. And I do mean the ones who are citizens not the ones it administers undemocratically.

zezi ca


Monday, April 19, 2010 5:42 PM

Wow zezi they gave Arafat a deal of a lifetime in 2000 he walked and by walking he gave up Israeli withdraw, East Jerusalem as the Capital, and everything they wanted and Zezi playing the Conservative card really? please and tell me the next time on the Arab parties in the Israeli government or members of the Knesset(www.knesset.gov.il/.../FactionPage_eng.asp?PG=103) or even the inequality that still exist in Canada AND Zezi Israeli does make everyone to serve in the Military but so most European countries and Zezi Israeli don't lock Gays up just because they are Gay are don't teach their children to hate their enemy(we do that in Canada too) or go blow them selves up on bus but the QuAIA is not a gay rights group since it did break anti-discrimination laws(many of your members even blamed Jews such as Rick has on other stories) and that applies to everyone in Canada Gay or Straight and including some gay loons who support people such as Hamas, or the PLO who will kill us for who we are and if the QuAIA really cares then Zezi please go to Gaza or the West Bank and have your rally there and what is Stopping you? and you can break all the anti-discrimination laws all you want.

Charles ca


Monday, April 19, 2010 5:43 PM

Have you actually read the deal of a lifetime? I think not. I think you have heard that it is the deal of the life time but, here are few things about it: 1) More than 50 new settlements were built during peace process. 2) There are around 200 settlements, Barak agree to remove only around 20 of them which in reality empty from settlers. The other 180 settlements were built on 55% of Palestinian lands with 80% of water resources! 3) Barak agree to withdraw from 90% of area 'B' not from West Bank and Gaza. Settlement areas called Area 'C' which represent 55% of occupied lands. 4) The Barak proposal is: to establish Palestinian state on 97% of areas A (Palestinian cities), Area B (areas near cities ) while Area C (settlements ,Palestinian country and Jerusalem) will be consider as part from Israel. 5) Palestinian state will have no any geographical or political border, it will contain 5 separated areas which connected by roads under Israeli control.6) Israel has the right to use all water resources, seacoast and the air of Palestinian areas. The entire international border should be under Israeli control. Charles, would you be happy to leave in such a nation? What kind of government seeks peace in this way? Who in their right mind does this, calls it a peace deal, and then has the nerve of brainwashing people like you and telling them they got more than they needed? When Israel starts to really want peace, the war will end. This was not a serious attempt at peace.

zezi ca


Monday, April 19, 2010 5:48 PM

On your other points: First, I disagree with military service, but military service in other countries does not imply constant war. In Israel, all citizens are exposed to fighting an ongoing war. I think it is detrimental to any society to do that and to normalize war. Second, I am not a member of QaIA, though I admire them greatly, specially the many jewish wants who have made choices that go against the mainstream jewish community. Third, I believe it is just as wrong to blow up a bus full of civilians as it is to send a missile to a heavily populated area and then go Oops about all the civilians who died. In both cases civilians are getting killing who have done nothing. I don't see how you can rationalize one over the other. To me... acts of cowardice abound in the region... you know, you said you think QaIA should probably see both sides... but you are a unilateral guy... you can go to sleep after 1000 people are killed by Israel and still get up the next day and defend them. How many children died in Lebanon? How can anyone justify what Israel did there? It is about time Israel accepts responsibility for its part on all of this and starts being a true partner for peace.

zezi ca


Monday, April 19, 2010 5:28 PM

well just tell that for the 3500 people who died in New York back in 2001 and the Palestinians were dancing in the streets in celebration well two can play at this (www.youtube.com/watch

Charles ca


Monday, April 19, 2010 5:36 PM

The point Charles, to me that is irrelevant... I can expect a people who have been at the receiving end of US-made missiles to act like that... I don't justify it, it shows a dark side of humanity... it shows a darker side of humanity to throw the missiles to begin with. You are trying to get a gut reaction from me... but if I were to have a gut reaction about it and thus justify what Israel does, then after decades and decades of being at the receiving end of Israel's missiles, I can see why the Palestians gut reaction isn't to wish the best to their enemies. I don't make my decisions that way, but I can see why that would happen. It would be stupid to make my decisions that way. Also, I hope you are not saying that Israel was doing the US a favour by bombing Lebanon and Gaza... that would be just silly, again.

zezi ca


Monday, April 19, 2010 6:11 PM

Just one reply to zezi and I won't bother going further; First of all, Toronto is my hometown... and I am there every summer; It is EVERYONE's pride, including mine. I find it more than offensive that the QIAI and you, by the way) are spouting half-truths and outright lies...beginning with their name which is brilliant PR but is STILL a lie.

If you took your head out of your ass you might look up the Hamas Charter on the Web...it specifically targets JEWS (not just Israelis, but any JEW)for assassination anywhere in the world! The Palestinians have been blowing up cafes and buses and discos... targeting CIVILIANS SPECIFICALLY (which is considered as a war crime by International law) FOR OVER TWENTY YEARS... and this was LONG before Gaza or the major excesses on the Israeli side. Palestinians have even blown up restaurants in Paris...how come you and QIAI don't ever discuss THAT?
Palestinians threw a crippled old man in a wheelchair overboard from an Italian cruise liner...ONLY because he was Jewish. This was also long before the Israeli excesses. Don't you people know any HISTORY?
Look up the HOAX of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion on Wikipedia. These anti-Semitic lies are taught all throughout the Middle East - including in Palestinian schools...but I don't hear you complaining or even mentioning that fact.

Your credibility is therefore on extremely shaky ground...as are a lot of your facts.

Considering that most Israelis or their families have suffered from pogroms or the Holocaurt makes it extremely difficult to try and find common ground with Palestinians when it is obvious that given the chance, the Palestinians would have butchered the entire Jewish population of Israel already - they and a combined Arab army from three other countries have already tried three times.
Arafat was offered 80% of what he demanded at Oslo...he turned it down. Well, how do you deal with such an enemy without destroying yourself? Israel has made lots of errors...but considering the alternative, what other choices have they really had?

But all of that is nothing to the QAIA...I KNOW some of the people from this group. I actually LIVED with some of them. They are expert manipulators of public opinion and the media;..their name is the best example of that.
But that doesn't mean that they are right!
And fucking up Pride for everyone else SHOULD be a consideration.

If City Council decides to remove their subsidy for Pride next year, you'll know exactly who to blame.
QIAI will continue AFTER Pride day...but will Pride survive them?

Ken in Paris fr


Monday, April 19, 2010 6:09 PM

Ken, I thought there was a chance you were ours, it appears you are... it is unfortunate. You start, like every other person in your camp by insulting people. You completely lack any credible argument... You are just ranting. I am not a supporter of Hammas. I think they are fundamentalists, bigots, brainwashed, etc.... I also think most of the right of Israel are fundamists, bigots, brainwashed, etc... and they don't care for the lives of palestinians, some don't care for the lives of homosexuals in Israel as you might remember how the only time the top rabbi and iman agreed on something was on what an abomination it would be to have Pride in Jerusalem... Do you remember Ortodox jews rioting over it? What fundamentalist, another fundamentalist... some of us in the rest of the world don't want two groups of fundamentalist bigots to kill each other. Hopefully Pride will surive, I believe it will, but if it doesn't, it will not be because QaIA did anything wrong, it would be because the people who share your views do not have enough respect for the citizens of Canada to let them make up their own mind. It will because a bunch of lunatics who have all the time in the world to pressure universities to censor its students are now moving on an attacking Pride. Yes, it is people who think like you who are attacking Pride and it is because of people like you that Pride is going through this. How cowardly, when it was people who think like you who are threatening Pride's funding, for you, coward, to blame QaIA for what a bunch of vile fundamentalists are trying to do in all sectors of society.

zezi ca


Monday, April 19, 2010 6:40 PM

Ken, one more thing,...you cannot calculate 80% of what Arafat wanted from qualitative data.... What are the weights of each thing that was asked for? Do you see why you make no sense? Only a truly brainwashed individual says things like that without thinking about it. How much is access to water? How much is having borders? A law abiding Israel would return to its borders and stop interfering with an independent Palestine.

zezi ca


Monday, April 19, 2010 6:58 PM

You know I won't wade into the foreign policy debate about Arafat's choices 10 years ago. The fact remains this debate must be allowed to happen and QuAIA's opinions should be allowed to be public and part of pride.

The fact these messages turned into a debate about settlements and borders shows the heart of the issues - most critics just want to silence QuAIA for disagreeing with Israeli policies.

Oh, and the YouTube video about Palestinians dancing on 9/11 seems rather fraudulent to me; most Palestinians have so much hope and optimism that one day the US will be on their side. If anyone was dancing in the streets, I would say it was an anomaly, and certainly not justification for the ongoing and brutal military occupation.

Besides, we can find youtube videos of Netanyahu happy about 9/11: www.youtube.com/watch

EKS ca


Monday, April 19, 2010 6:53 PM

Hanan Ashrawi, former member of Palestinian Legislative Council: "We feel nothing but sympathy for the Americans on this terrible day...this random footage is being used to malign our people"
www.youtube.com/watch

(Ashrawi commenting on the YouTube videos of Palestinians dancing after 9/11)


And if you think there is no apartheid regime in place in Israel, look at how Hanan Ashrawi's daughter was denied the right to ever go home to Jerusalem, this city where she was born: www.globalresearch.ca/index.php

Had she been a Jew who had NEVER been to Israel in her life, she could get Israeli citizenship and an apartment in Jerusalem tomorrow.

it's DISCRIMINATION that someone born in Jerusalem, whose family has been there for centuries, cannot return home.

EKS ca


Monday, April 19, 2010 8:28 PM

This group has no business raining on Toronto's big gay pride parade, and I support the city withholding funds. To use Pride to further an anti-Israel agenda is loathsome. QuAIA's argument that Pride is inherently political is questionable - Pride is political insofar as it supports LGBT causes, not the random political agendas of people who happen to be queer.

To protest a democratic country that supports and empowers gays, at a gay pride parade, is farcical. C'mon Pride Toronto, stand up to these Jew hating bullies.

Soren ca


Monday, April 19, 2010 8:41 PM

Let's remember: Pride was born a protest. The Pride parade was, originally, a MARCH -- born of anger, blood, sweat, and tears. The act of reclaiming the streets was the response to repression and violence. And reclaiming the streets IS a celebration. Notice: Activists and protesters are usually smiling! It is liberating and uplifting to take a stand against oppression. Queers Against Israeli Apartheid, therefore, celebrates: QuAIA celebrates the right to freedom of expression, the right to protest, the right to raise awareness, the right to educate, and the right to be heard. There's no better celebration than taking a stand against injustice. Fighting oppression and speaking out: That's the real party!

Rick ca


Monday, April 19, 2010 10:04 PM

Soren, Are you one of those people who believes people who disagree with Israel are Jew haters? That those who are Jewish are self-hating Jews? How sad. The only democracy in the region, as you call it, is de facto administering the West Bank and controlling the border of Gaza while those people who live in the West Bank and Gaza who are not Jewish people are not allowed to vote. How is it that Israel can govern all these people who have not voted for it and call itself a democracy? As for Pride being political, if these were Queers Against the Killing of Dolphins, not one of you would have a problem. The bullies are those people who want to control the information that citizens of this country have. If it is so clear that Israel is not an apartheid state, let us make our own mind. If those who support the censorship and are willing to pressure those who fund Pride are queer, shame on you for doing this to your community.

zezi ca


Monday, April 19, 2010 11:47 PM

Very presumptuous for these protesters and their defenders to taint Toronto's Pride celebration with their pet political causes that aren't LGBT.

Zazu,I won't engage in a Mid-East debate, because I don't give a shit about propaganda from that part of the world. Further, I don't believe Toronto Pride is a suitable forum either. QuAIA is as welcome at Pride as the Westboro Baptist Church and Fred Phelps. Leave the hate at home that day.

Soren ca


Tuesday, April 20, 2010 12:30 AM

Soren, You speak of hatred, I could fill an entire page of quotes from just last week in the Israeli Haaretz newspaper. Just regular people, uncensored, telling us what they think. I can even send video links that would make most people wonder where the democracy is and that show how much hatred and racism there is among many in Israel towards Paletinians. I would say to stand by and do nothing is racist and hateful... so you call me this, I call that... QaIA are a human rights group. Do you care if 1,400 people of Gaza die because one person was kidnapped? There has to be some kind hate to think that this is inconsequential... that is ok.... or is just plain indifference over the suffering of others? I guess indifference is almost worst, isn't?

zezi ca


Tuesday, April 20, 2010 5:51 AM

According to the United Nations, Israel is engaged in an illegal occupation. According to Jewish Israeli scholar Prof. Dr. Ilan Pappe, Israel's creation was preceded by an ethnic cleansing of Palestine. Ehud Barak (Israel's Minister of Defence), Michael Ignatieff, Naomi Klein, Jimmy Carter, Desmond Tutu -- the list goes on -- have described apartheid in Israel. "Apartheid" is clearly defined by the International Criminal Court. To support Palestinian liberation is NOT to support Hamas; in fact, supporting Hamas only hurts the Palestinian people. (QuAIA does not support Hamas.) Using LGBT equality rights as an example, Israel promotes itself as bastion of liberal democracy; it is a lie. Israel does NOT provide equality rights to all LGBT people within the boundaries it controls. Furthermore, Israel is hardly a homophobia-free society; Orthodox Jews have been responsible for recent anti-gay murders. LGBT people living under apartheid struggle immensely; winning rights and liberty requires better social conditions, and such social conditions are rendered impossible by Israel's domination and starvation of Palestinian people. Israeli apartheid IS a LGBT issue. QUESTION: RATHER THAN FLING SHIT AND LIES, WHY DON'T THE ZIONISTS AND PRO-APARTHEID MOUTHPIECES JUST ADDRESS THESE ARGUMENTS WITH LOGIC AND EVIDENCE? Answer: Because truth is not on their side. You want the whole truth? Listen to Dr. Norman Finkelstein -- a Jewish scholar whose parents are both Holocaust survivors: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MON2HL02mec

Rick ca


Tuesday, April 20, 2010 11:24 AM

So these are the zealots the Toronto Pride Committee has to deal with. You can't reason with their victimization or their sense of entitlement to infect gay day with their pity party politics.

I support the City preventing these protesters from using Pride as a political platform for the MidEast conflict as readily as I would support banning Queer Tamil Tigers or Queer Falun Gongers.

Will ca


Tuesday, April 20, 2010 12:34 PM

Dear Will, Actually, when I first read your note and you spoke of zealots with their petty politics I thought you meant the people who are threatening the very existence of Pride because they cannot live with someone disagreeing with them and pointing out inherent discrimination in Israel and the occupied territories. What is so fanatical about wanting everyone to be treated equally? I am going to borrow an argument fromt he Toronto Start... do you think there would be such a reaction if a group calling themselves "queers against dutch apartheid" wanted to be in Pride... my guess is no... because THAT would be ridiculous, it would be a joke... it is evident that this is not the case... they would be not fanatical, but insane... we would just let them rant... the dutch would let them rant because they are sure that they are not an apartheid state and that everyone can see that... I guess Israel knows that under close inspection people will know it is an apartheid state. I personally, as a sympathizer of QaIA ,would like to thank those lobbying against Pride, it has certainly made the issue of apartheid very present outside of academia... the Toronto Star comments are fantastic too.. if you care to see them Will. I myself only began to research the subject because I was being bombarded by the ranting propaganda from the pro-Israel group. I would rather have known nothing and not therefore felt a moral responsibility to take a stand. How they shoot themselves in the foot.

zezi ca


Tuesday, April 20, 2010 2:19 PM

zezi I agree whole heartedly, personally I wanted nothing to do with or to hear about the Isreal/Palestine conflict but when a group of queers who do care about that issue start getting lied about and misrepresented as a hate group that must be censored then I have an issue with what is happening here in Toronto. Censorship has no place in Pride or the LGBT community, QuAIA is not a hate group nor do they use hate speech, no one has yet presented any evidence that they are a hate group or have used hate speech ever, I wouldn't be supportive of QuAIA if I thought for a second they did. This is clearly the attempt by the Israel lobby to silence criticism of Israel where ever they find it. The really ironic thing is that hardly anyone would have heard of QuAIA or have remembered them from last years parade if it weren't for all the opposition to them. Its the oppostion to QuAIA thats really spreading their message, I for one went to their web site looking for evidence of hate but couldn't find any yet I read some very convincing things that have made me more supportive of the Palestininas and more critical of Israel, never would have happened if there weren't folks trying to censor them and calling them a hate group and trying to ban them from the Pride parade. Censorship can never be allowed to stand!

Rich ca


Tuesday, April 20, 2010 9:21 PM

In a city and a country known around the world for its tolerance and respect, this tiny, tiny group has managed to almost completely ruin our biggest GAY celebration. Let's stand arm and arm with the City of Toronto and say tolerance, freedom AND RESPECT.

William ca


Tuesday, April 20, 2010 10:41 PM

"How is it that Israel can govern all these people who have not voted for it and call itself a democracy?" Amen, that is the best comment here. Everybody should re-read his full comment.

jack us


Wednesday, April 21, 2010 8:14 AM

Actually, William, I think you left out a few words. Perhaps what you meant to say was: "In a city and a country known around the world for its tolerance and respect, an aggressive lobbying campaign against this tiny, tiny group has managed to almost completely ruin our biggest GAY celebration. Let's stand arm and arm with the City of Toronto and say tolerance, freedom AND RESPECT FOR ALL."

David ca


Wednesday, April 21, 2010 8:00 AM

You're right William, it is about respect - I don't really agree with QAIA, but I RESPECT their right to their opinion and welcome them in a parade that is deeply political at its core. Censoring an opinion is simply not an option, and queers should be acutely aware of this. If QAIA is actually doing something ILLEGAL, then arrest them and remove them. Otherwise, let them march, and they can deal with whatever criticism (or support) is thrown at them.

As noted by others, QAIA is not the only marching group with a political message that bares a tenuous link to the queer/LGBT community. If we were to ban QAIA, then who's next?

Perhaps the Conservative Party of Canada - surely a representative of ideology openly hostile to queers shouldn't be part of the parade, right?

Maybe those "icky" nudists of TNTMEN? There's nothing inherently queer about nudity, so why allow them to march?

How about those law flaunting marijuana smokers of CALM? Surely not every one of those people have the proper paperwork.

And so on.. it's absurd to think that these groups ought to be censored, and so i goes with QAIA. Again, you may disagree with the politics of a particular group, but that's not reason enough to censor them.

Dan ca


Wednesday, April 21, 2010 9:25 AM

I agree with Ken, Soren, Will, and William. No big rants here.

Alex ca


Wednesday, April 21, 2010 9:32 AM

As others have noted, Pride parades grew out of protests-without-permits and genuine anger about the flouting of our human rights. Over the years the parades have grown into protests about choosing someone's bubble gum or temporary tattoo over someone else's condom or vacation package draw or which bar managed to book the hottest dancers for their floats. The QuAIA issue, besides being a legitimate group within our diverse community, has done nothing less than put a spark in the procession of commerce and church basement groups espousing all sorts of causes that merely need to include, as members, our community in order to claim their spot. The madder I get about the false and offensive arguments of the Israel-as-infallible lobby the more likely I'll be hanging out with, or near, QuAIA if for no other reason than they embody the "No More Shit!" attitude of Toronto's early Pride parades.

Ken(n) ca


Thursday, April 22, 2010 11:18 AM

Pride made be born of protest, but they were protesting bathhouse raids and other gay causes. QuAIA should be prohibited from Pride for many reasons -- like inciting hate speech and discrimination, alienating audience, and protesting a gay friendly country. Israel is the only country in the region that supports gays and extends civil rights.

Most objectionable is that QuAIA are bringing their questionable politics to a celebration of gay culture because gay culture is anathema to the people and land they are supporting.

Piers ca



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